Engine rebuild tips / parts. help please
Discussion
I am going to embark on an engine rebuild / refreash on my 4.5. I've rebuilt many of my own engines in the past with good results. I have not done a AJP before. I thought it my be worthwhile asking fellow cerb owners of their own experiences good or bad on this topic.
If they have any tips, mods, suppliers of parts etc that they can recommend. Maybe the thread if supported well could become an oracle of recommended actions to take/avoid, mods to do and parts to change, when rebuilding an engine.
Have tried the search function but it does not seem to bring up much.
If they have any tips, mods, suppliers of parts etc that they can recommend. Maybe the thread if supported well could become an oracle of recommended actions to take/avoid, mods to do and parts to change, when rebuilding an engine.
Have tried the search function but it does not seem to bring up much.
if you have rebuild other engines before then you will find the ajp a doddle, its a nice simple set up.
something I found suprising when I first stripped mine was how all of the casings fit like a puzzle, for example you cannot remove the sump without first removing the rocker covers and timing cover, and then the flywheel, it all interlocks, so top first, then front, then flywheel and rear crankshaft seel housing plate, then the sump last.
the rear crankshaft seal housing plate bolts to the crankcase, and the bottom of the sump, and the studs on the front face of the sump locate on the bottom holes of the timing cover, hope that helps.
if you need any pics drop me a mail.
something I found suprising when I first stripped mine was how all of the casings fit like a puzzle, for example you cannot remove the sump without first removing the rocker covers and timing cover, and then the flywheel, it all interlocks, so top first, then front, then flywheel and rear crankshaft seel housing plate, then the sump last.
the rear crankshaft seal housing plate bolts to the crankcase, and the bottom of the sump, and the studs on the front face of the sump locate on the bottom holes of the timing cover, hope that helps.
if you need any pics drop me a mail.
Paul, I rebuilt mine last winter and would recommend the following:
Overall, it's a very interesting engine to rebuild with nothing terrible to overcome. However, I can't overstate how important it is to double check what TVR did in the factory - their reputation didn't come about through bad luck.
- Check everything - TVR's tolerances were cr@p. I found the crank to be undersized by 2 thou and that the line boring for the mains was very poor - not easy or cheap to resolve, but necessary if you want it all to hold together. I suspect that this is the reason that we are now finding some engines that will hold together for very high mileages, whilst others are less durable.
- Check the crank and cams very carefully - get crack tested if you can - failures keep cropping up on PH. Personally I would also check the gudgeon pins as this was the reason for my engine needing a rebuild - they had been crudely shortened and started to disintegrate! I had some very high spec ones made up which are stronger and lighter at a reasonable price. Jerry Vize at Weymouth Pin is the man to speak to for these - http://www.weypin.co.uk/
- Get the rotating assembly balanced - mine was miles out and, given the general standard of construction, I can't imagine most are much better.
- Take the opportunity to port match the exhaust headers as they are totally the wrong shape for the ports.
- Get the oil / water pump rebuilt at the same time - I didn't and had to take the engine out again after 500 miles to do it... This was the only part of the rebuild (other than machining) that I farmed out. http://www.readmanracing.co.uk/ did mine and, I believe, rebuild units on behalf of many of the specialists.
- If you want to improve performance, get the heads flowed as they are pretty poor as standard. Some light headwork, CC'ing the chambers and a skim to increase CR basically takes you to RR spec (providing you remap to take advantage of the improvements).
- It's also a good time to remove the mechanical PAS pump and fit an electric one - saves a little drag no doubt and is much easier to replace in the future.
Overall, it's a very interesting engine to rebuild with nothing terrible to overcome. However, I can't overstate how important it is to double check what TVR did in the factory - their reputation didn't come about through bad luck.
just what i am looking for....keep them coming and this could be a good thread on PH. (AT LAST!). A Saxo / Pug 106 one - the fittings are the same and it gives the same feel, though slightly more consistent as my manual pump was marginal at tick over. So far as I understand, the pump just needs to provide sufficient pressure, the amount of assistance is dictated by the way that the rack is valved.
Can you elaborate please....which electric PAS system did you use? and does it work / feel like the original?
a1rak said:
itiejim said:
- It's also a good time to remove the mechanical PAS pump and fit an electric one - saves a little drag no doubt and is much easier to replace in the future.
itiejim said:
A Saxo / Pug 106 one - the fittings are the same and it gives the same feel, though slightly more consistent as my manual pump was marginal at tick over. So far as I understand, the pump just needs to provide sufficient pressure, the amount of assistance is dictated by the way that the rack is valved.
Can you elaborate please....which electric PAS system did you use? and does it work / feel like the original?
Ok, I misunderstood the electric bit, I wrongly presumed that you meant a electrically assisted power steering, like I think that is fitted to small hatches Punto etc. Yours is an electrical pump that would replace the belt driven one, I think?a1rak said:
itiejim said:
- It's also a good time to remove the mechanical PAS pump and fit an electric one - saves a little drag no doubt and is much easier to replace in the future.
If you have A/C fitted and after my experience losing the nose pinion ( see here) double check that the bolt is torqued up and stud locked.
I'm just finishing off an initial clean of everything and about to start checking all the tolerances.
It is a relatively simple engine, although as Clive says the sequence of dismantling and reassembling the block, sump and covers is important.
Definitely get the correct grade of silicon sealant for the covers, it must be oil resistant. If its not it will start to leak from every joint.
Once the crank and pistons are in I'm going to get it off the stand temporarily to refit the oil control plate and flywheel so I can mark up TDC with a DTI on the piston tops. Hopefully the DTI is more accurate than a dead stop and the larger circumference of the flywheel (vs the A/C pulley) will reduce any errors when marking it up.
Good luck
I'm just finishing off an initial clean of everything and about to start checking all the tolerances.
It is a relatively simple engine, although as Clive says the sequence of dismantling and reassembling the block, sump and covers is important.
Definitely get the correct grade of silicon sealant for the covers, it must be oil resistant. If its not it will start to leak from every joint.
Once the crank and pistons are in I'm going to get it off the stand temporarily to refit the oil control plate and flywheel so I can mark up TDC with a DTI on the piston tops. Hopefully the DTI is more accurate than a dead stop and the larger circumference of the flywheel (vs the A/C pulley) will reduce any errors when marking it up.
Good luck
Some non-engine things to do whilst the engine is out and you've got room.
Recondition the steering rack, much easier to get in and out with the engine out the way.
Check the condition of the chassis, especially near to the exhausts, repaint and protect as necessary.
Check and replace the insulation around the bulkhead.
Recondition the steering rack, much easier to get in and out with the engine out the way.
Check the condition of the chassis, especially near to the exhausts, repaint and protect as necessary.
Check and replace the insulation around the bulkhead.
I have added the parts needed to rebuild the water/oil pump assembly to the equivalent parts list recently.
A couple of points I noted rebuilding the AJP:
The rods have offsets, put them back the right way round.
You can't get the front cover off until you remove the woodfuff key from the crank
Once the sump is on you can't easily refit the water/oil pump assembly
The rear oil seal is in a plate bolted to the back of the block and the sump. It will be all but impossible to prise it off without breaking it. The trick is to take all its bolts out and leave it there until you remove the sump. When you pull the sump off it will break the adhesion of the plate to the back of the engine.
Big ends and mains are rover V8 parts
Don't miss the hidden bolt under the water pump assembly which holds it to the block
If you look at the front cover of the frontward water pump (there are two) you will see four or five small bolts that hold it one. Note that one of them has a very thin head for a reason. If you replace it with a bolt with a thicker head it will foul the block when you try to remount the assembley.
The shims are inverted buckets on top of the velve stems, the buckets are the shims, they don't have shims in them!
The O rings on the coolant pipes either side of the head are thicker than usual, get the right ones.
Buy an M8 helicoil kit with a good assortment of different length coils. The ally castings are a bit crap and you will find threads on the exhaust manifold mounts and various others that need fixing. In my opinion every thread on the ally castings should have been helicoiled from the factory but they were too cheap and figured it would be someone elses probem later.
Threadlock the crank pulley bolt, the cam wheel pulley bolts and clutch bolts as an absolute minimum.
Check the exhaust manifolds for cracks starting to appear, better found now than later.
Check heat sheilds on inner wings and power cables, major cause of fires.
Note where each bolt fits on Cam covers, front cover and sump. Virtually all different lengths, put the wrong one in and you either strip the thread by hitting the bottom of the hole or strip the thread by only getting 2 or 3 turns off thread engaged. Either way see the helicoil comment above!
Note that some of the front cover bolts have nuts under them to provide a flat mounting plane for the engine mounts. They need to go back in the right place.
Don't put an old slave cylinder or clutch back unless you're very sure they have enough life left in them to warrant it.
If the sump plug threads have gone, nows the time to get it fixed.
Don't shim valves on the bench, when you torque the head down they will be miles out.
Stuff some grease in the oil pump rotors, helps it prime on first start.
There are other things but these are the ones I cocked up or spotted that stuck in my mind.
A couple of points I noted rebuilding the AJP:
The rods have offsets, put them back the right way round.
You can't get the front cover off until you remove the woodfuff key from the crank
Once the sump is on you can't easily refit the water/oil pump assembly
The rear oil seal is in a plate bolted to the back of the block and the sump. It will be all but impossible to prise it off without breaking it. The trick is to take all its bolts out and leave it there until you remove the sump. When you pull the sump off it will break the adhesion of the plate to the back of the engine.
Big ends and mains are rover V8 parts
Don't miss the hidden bolt under the water pump assembly which holds it to the block
If you look at the front cover of the frontward water pump (there are two) you will see four or five small bolts that hold it one. Note that one of them has a very thin head for a reason. If you replace it with a bolt with a thicker head it will foul the block when you try to remount the assembley.
The shims are inverted buckets on top of the velve stems, the buckets are the shims, they don't have shims in them!
The O rings on the coolant pipes either side of the head are thicker than usual, get the right ones.
Buy an M8 helicoil kit with a good assortment of different length coils. The ally castings are a bit crap and you will find threads on the exhaust manifold mounts and various others that need fixing. In my opinion every thread on the ally castings should have been helicoiled from the factory but they were too cheap and figured it would be someone elses probem later.
Threadlock the crank pulley bolt, the cam wheel pulley bolts and clutch bolts as an absolute minimum.
Check the exhaust manifolds for cracks starting to appear, better found now than later.
Check heat sheilds on inner wings and power cables, major cause of fires.
Note where each bolt fits on Cam covers, front cover and sump. Virtually all different lengths, put the wrong one in and you either strip the thread by hitting the bottom of the hole or strip the thread by only getting 2 or 3 turns off thread engaged. Either way see the helicoil comment above!
Note that some of the front cover bolts have nuts under them to provide a flat mounting plane for the engine mounts. They need to go back in the right place.
Don't put an old slave cylinder or clutch back unless you're very sure they have enough life left in them to warrant it.
If the sump plug threads have gone, nows the time to get it fixed.
Don't shim valves on the bench, when you torque the head down they will be miles out.
Stuff some grease in the oil pump rotors, helps it prime on first start.
There are other things but these are the ones I cocked up or spotted that stuck in my mind.
fatjon said:
The shims are inverted buckets on top of the velve stems, the buckets are the shims, they don't have shims in them!
Huh. I always thought the buckets were the items that fitted over the top of the valve spring, that the cam acted on, and the shims were the items that sat on top of the valve stems, underneath the "buckets"?
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