Generally not gassing?

[sunbeam_alpine]

About 6 weeks ago the car stuttered to a halt - all the symptoms of running out of fuel, while the gauge was showing half-full. The fuse (30A) for the electric fuel pump had blown. I replaced the fuse and got going again, but the engine wouldn't run smoothly, and didn't develop full power.

So far, we have replaced the fuel pump (advice from the garage) and fuel filter, but the car still won't pull. It drives OK (-ish), but you can floor the throttle and it speeds up, but very lethargically.

We've had it on a diagnostic machine and it isn't showing any faults, and all readings are within the right ranges.
We've tried a different MAF while connected to the diagnostics machine (but not tested on the road).

The problem seems to get worse the further you drive, and seems to be related to fuelling - e.g. if you drop a gear, the revs rise, but you still can't accelerate any better.

My garage (independent) is being really helpful - we can fit any parts they have to try and solve the problem - but we're running out of ideas - maybe thinking either injector problem or maybe turbo beginning to give problems (bit of a coincidence).

The vehicle is a 2000 MY Discovery TD5, approx 250,000 km, fully serviced from new.

Anyone any ideas?

[DrTre]

Had a similar issue, that turned out to be the fifth injector.

Edit : different engine mind do may not be of any use whatsoever. Plus...would it be the 6th injector on a5 cyl unit? Dunno..

Edited by DrTre on Saturday 11th September 09:43

[Dab of oppo]

Have you considered it may be the fuel itself?

[ManOpener]

DrTre said:

Had a similar issue, that turned out to be the fifth injector.

Edit : different engine mind do may not be of any use whatsoever. Plus...would it be the 6th injector on a5 cyl unit? Dunno..

Edited by DrTre on Saturday 11th September 09:43

Or any injector for that matter. I imagine having something in the fuel system let go could pull crap into the injectors.
You'd be able to tell it wasn't firing on all cylinders by the sound it made too.

[sunbeam_alpine]

Thanks for the replies so far. I don't know how to do multiple quotes, so -

ManOpener - the engine doesn't sound any different to how it used to sound. I guess it's firing on all cylinders.

Dab of Oppo - I've refuelled a couple of times, so any dud fuel should have been used up or at least diluted. We also run a few other diesels, and mostly fill up at the same places, and none of the other vehicles have any problems.

Dr Tre - what is the 5th/6th injector?

We have also replaced the block on the side of the motor where all the fuel lines connect as this is sometimes reported to give problems. It has not helped!

Edited by sunbeam_alpine on Saturday 11th September 12:41

[kamilb1998]

sunbeam_alpine said:

Dr Tre - what is the 5th/6th injector?

The injector for the 5th or 6th cylinder

[useyourdellusion]

250k kilometres? Have you had it compression tested? I'm guessing yes, but you never know.

Also it may need a de-coke.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but I'm just mentioning these as you've not already mentioned them.

...And I'm also clutching at straws.

[sunbeam_alpine]

kamilb1998 said:

sunbeam_alpine said:

Dr Tre - what is the 5th/6th injector?

The injector for the 5th or 6th cylinder

The question was because he said the 6th injector on a 5-cylinder unit, suggesting that there was another (sort of) injector somewhere.

[SDxsi]

kamilb1998 said:

sunbeam_alpine said:

Dr Tre - what is the 5th/6th injector?

The injector for the 5th or 6th cylinder

Ah, but why does a 106 turbo have 5 or 6 injectors but only 4 cylinders?

[lost in espace]

It might be the engine loom, fairly cheap to replace. If you need it I have a LRO mag with details I can scan and email you.

[Kevin VRs]

Symptoms sound very similar to a problem I had with my A6 Tdi. In my case it was the Mass Air Flow meter (MAF). Allowed driving but naff-all acceleration. Effectively a limp-home mode.

[sunbeam_alpine]

lost in espace said:

It might be the engine loom, fairly cheap to replace. If you need it I have a LRO mag with details I can scan and email you.

That would be great! If PM doesn't work, please send to ds AT agroccasie DOT be

ETA: Is this the part where oil can get in? If so, it was (should have been!) replaced as a safety recall, supposedly with one which could not have this problem.

Could it give these symptoms? How do I check it?

P.S. I added the "should have been" because it was done at our nearest LR main dealer, which was dropped by LR a couple of years ago because they were allegedly charging customers for new parts which were never fitted.

Edited by sunbeam_alpine on Saturday 11th September 12:18

[DrTre]

As I understand it (badly) the 5th injector (on a 4 cyl engine) is an auxiliary injector (hence why I said it might be 6th on your 5 cyl engine...think that's what TD5 is isn't it?) adding more fuel into the intake manifold.

Anyway, your engine may not have one. I just know it was what I was told on a Freelander TD4 but I can't remember what the unit was...Ford? I wasn't paying a huge amount of attention as I moved on.

The symptoms were similar to what you describe until it then just packed up on the M4.

[sunbeam_alpine]

Kevin VRs said:

Symptoms sound very similar to a problem I had with my A6 Tdi. In my case it was the Mass Air Flow meter (MAF). Allowed driving but naff-all acceleration. Effectively a limp-home mode.

We've tried another MAF with the car connected to diagnostics, and they both gave very similar readings, both at tickover and while revving the engine so we didn't actually try it on the road.

Maybe I should try swapping to a new one? Is it possible that it gives agood reading but still is faulty?

The car has recently (i.e. since these problems started) passed the Belgian Keuring (MOT) which includes an emissions test.

[sunbeam_alpine]

useyourdellusion said:

250k kilometres? Have you had it compression tested? I'm guessing yes, but you never know.

Also it may need a de-coke.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but I'm just mentioning these as you've not already mentioned them.

...And I'm also clutching at straws.

Not had it compression tested recently (had it done about a year ago when we started slowly losing water and couldn't find any sign of a leak). Then it was good (leak was in radiator - replaced and problem solved).

What is a de-coke?

ETA: All the problems started after the break-down. Before this it has always performed very well. I appreciate that you don't always feel a gradual reduction in performance, and I don't expect it to be like new, but this is a sudden loss of performance.

Edited by sunbeam_alpine on Saturday 11th September 12:40

[Defcon5]

SDxsi said:

kamilb1998 said:

sunbeam_alpine said:

Dr Tre - what is the 5th/6th injector?

The injector for the 5th or 6th cylinder

Ah, but why does a 106 turbo have 5 or 6 injectors but only 4 cylinders?

I didnt think any 106 was turbocharged?

[useyourdellusion]

sunbeam_alpine said:

useyourdellusion said:

250k kilometres? Have you had it compression tested? I'm guessing yes, but you never know.

Also it may need a de-coke.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but I'm just mentioning these as you've not already mentioned them.

...And I'm also clutching at straws.

Not had it compression tested recently (had it done about a year ago when we started slowly losing water and couldn't find any sign of a leak). Then it was good (leak was in radiator - replaced and problem solved).

What is a de-coke?

ETA: All the problems started after the break-down. Before this it has always performed very well. I appreciate that you don't always feel a gradual reduction in performance, and I don't expect it to be like new, but this is a sudden loss of performance.

Edited by sunbeam_alpine on Saturday 11th September 12:40

De-coke = clearing carbon build-up on the valves etc, would probably be a bit smokey though if that was the case.

I'm just going down the coincidencial road, in that it could be a couple of things failing at the same time.

[sunbeam_alpine]

useyourdellusion said:

sunbeam_alpine said:

useyourdellusion said:

250k kilometres? Have you had it compression tested? I'm guessing yes, but you never know.

Also it may need a de-coke.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but I'm just mentioning these as you've not already mentioned them.

...And I'm also clutching at straws.

Not had it compression tested recently (had it done about a year ago when we started slowly losing water and couldn't find any sign of a leak). Then it was good (leak was in radiator - replaced and problem solved).

What is a de-coke?

ETA: All the problems started after the break-down. Before this it has always performed very well. I appreciate that you don't always feel a gradual reduction in performance, and I don't expect it to be like new, but this is a sudden loss of performance.

Edited by sunbeam_alpine on Saturday 11th September 12:40

De-coke = clearing carbon build-up on the valves etc, would probably be a bit smokey though if that was the case.

I'm just going down the coincidencial road, in that it could be a couple of things failing at the same time.

It has passed the emissions test for the Belgian Keuring (MOT) since this problem began. I don't know if that gives any indication of whether it's good or bad. Certainly doesn't smoke as badly as my wife's Golf, which usually fails the emissions test every year (doesn't get driven enough, and lots of short journeys).

[Fish981]

Have you tried driving it with the fuel cap off?

[sunbeam_alpine]

Fish981 said:

Have you tried driving it with the fuel cap off?

I have to go out now, so I'll try it. It doesn't hiss when you open it though.