New Aston for 2011

[Parsnip]

I guess I should be happy that AM are pushing for LMP1 victory next year, but can't help but feel that the V12 howl and drop dead gorgeous looks of the Lola-AMs will be missed. Especially when the replacement looks like this:


With the stupid fin - why ACO,why?

[deevlash]

its not going to win unless its a diseasel or hybrid surely?

[Parsnip]

According to Dave Richards, the new regs make it a more level playing field - hopefully with this and the fact that AM are putting a lot more into it, rather than bolting a GT spec engine into a Lola chassis, it will be a at least a 3 horse race next year.

[williamp]

Until I noticed the fin, I love that shape. The air outlets behind the front wheels are reminiscent of the DBR1, which won le mans in 1959

[deevlash]

I thought eclosed cockpits were going to be mandatory soon?

[Parsnip]

deevlash said:

I thought eclosed cockpits were going to be mandatory soon?

I'm not sure, but I seem to remember Audi talking about the R18 development and their reluctance to move to one, but they were kind of forced to due to the performance advantages.

[Graebob]

I thought the fin is to stop the cars rolling in the event of a crash? Can't be a bad thing IMO.

Also, that's a lovely design, especially the vents behind the front wheel

Edited by Graebob on Saturday 11th September 21:05

[deevlash]

Graebob said:

I thought the fin is to stop the cars rolling in the event of a crash?

How would a fin do that?

[Graebob]

deevlash said:

Graebob said:

I thought the fin is to stop the cars rolling in the event of a crash?

How would a fin do that?

There's an article in the current issue of Motorsport



http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/motorspor...

[Parsnip]

Graebob said:

I thought the fin is to stop the cars rolling in the event of a crash? Can't be a bad thing IMO.

It is, but why do it in such a ridiculous looking way - Nascar, even with their barndoor engineering have managed to hide their anti-roll aero elements.

I woudn't have thought it would stop the kind of roll prototypes have - they tend to flip away from the direction of travel when the air gets underneath them, rather than rolling towards the direction of travel, like a GT car would - I would have thought putting a big fin like that on top of the car would help it to flip - like Ortelli at Monza a few years back. My basic grasp of aerodynamics does no extend to the effect that it would have though, I am assuming people a lot cleverer than me, with expensive modelling software have done the sums.

[Graebob]

Having a quick read back over the article, it's as you say, an aerodynamic thing to do with pressures. In the picture I posted above, red is high pressure and blue is low pressure. The top car is a 2010 spec car without a fin, which as it's travelling sideways creates high pressure on the side and floor (as floors are chamfered), and low pressure under the wheels and around the tyres. The 2011 spec, finned car has a high pressure area above the centre of rotation, cancelling out that effect.

It's not the most elegant solution (Nascar-style flaps would be ace!) but it's a relatively simple one to the problem. Also it provides lots of lovely sponsorship area.

[Nick M]

Parsnip said:

deevlash said:

I thought eclosed cockpits were going to be mandatory soon?

I'm not sure, but I seem to remember Audi talking about the R18 development and their reluctance to move to one, but they were kind of forced to due to the performance advantages.

I think that got dropped, but the rule changes for pitstops (limited the number of people allowed to change wheels) and aircon to keep cockpit temps down (so drivers of the closed cars can stay in there longer) have negated a large part of the open-cockpit advantage, such that the aero benefits of the closed car are preferable to the benefit of allowing quick driver changes.

Sort of surprised Aston have opted for an open car on that basis to be honest.

[Nick M]

Parsnip said:

According to Dave Richards, the new regs make it a more level playing field - hopefully with this and the fact that AM are putting a lot more into it, rather than bolting a GT spec engine into a Lola chassis, it will be a at least a 3 horse race next year.

And maybe now the ACO can see another prestigious car company taking their Le Mans effort seriously they'll ensure the regs are adjusted accordingly....


Not wishing to be overly cynical here, but we may end up seeing a situation where the rule adjustments end up favouring Aston Martin in the future. Much like the ACO's tweaking of the rules to ensure a Bentley win in 2003.

[Rs2oo]

As much as I love the current Aston, who cares what it looks like so long as it beats Audis and Pugs. All we need now is our man McNish to swap teams.

[Rs2oo]

Nick M said:

Parsnip said:

And maybe now the ACO can see another prestigious car company taking their Le Mans effort seriously they'll ensure the regs are adjusted accordingly....


Not wishing to be overly cynical here, but we may end up seeing a situation where the rule adjustments end up favouring Aston Martin in the future. Much like the ACO's tweaking of the rules to ensure a Bentley win in 2003.

Thats never going to happen so long as there is a national french team racing, namely Peugeot.

[VPower]

Nick M said:

Not wishing to be overly cynical here, but we may end up seeing a situation where the rule adjustments end up favouring Aston Martin in the future. Much like the ACO's tweaking of the rules to ensure a Bentley win in 2003.

Does anyone else think that the ACO will tweak the rules in favour of a British car, so that it can beat a French team, in a French car with French drivers??

I'd love to see it!! Don't we all??

I personally thought the Bently won because their owners (VAG) pulled the official Audi factory team out that year?

But your are correct Nick, in that the ACO have in the past changed the rules when it gets too difficult for the competition to compete.

Perhaps why it is still the Greatest Race in the World?

Both Porsche and Ford in particular have had winning cars rulled out, if my understanding is correct.

Indeed this years changes made it difficult for the Peugeot to catch up and they blew in spectacular fashion trying!

If the ACO has dropped the power of the Diesels by an appropriate margine, it will be one heck of a race next year!!

[UK952]

remember hearing (i think on radio le mans) that in wet weather the closed cars steam up and can be a real pain. Wouldn't fancy a steamed up screen as I headed down the mulsanne in the dark.

[VPower]

UK952 said:

remember hearing (i think on radio le mans) that in wet weather the closed cars steam up and can be a real pain. Wouldn't fancy a steamed up screen as I headed down the mulsanne in the dark.

Especially with the smell of Chineese cooking wafting into the cabin!!

[Nick M]

VPower said:

Nick M said:

Not wishing to be overly cynical here, but we may end up seeing a situation where the rule adjustments end up favouring Aston Martin in the future. Much like the ACO's tweaking of the rules to ensure a Bentley win in 2003.

Does anyone else think that the ACO will tweak the rules in favour of a British car, so that it can beat a French team, in a French car with French drivers??

I personally thought the Bently won because their owners (VAG) pulled the official Audi factory team out that year?

But your are correct Nick, in that the ACO have in the past changed the rules when it gets too difficult for the competition to compete.

Perhaps why it is still the Greatest Race in the World?

Both Porsche and Ford in particular have had winning cars rulled out, if my understanding is correct.

If the ACO has dropped the power of the Diesels by an appropriate margine, it will be one heck of a race next year!!

It might be reasonable to suggest that the 'Le Mans' brand is better served by manufacturers such as Porsche, Ferrari and Aston Martin, all of whom have 'ancestry' associated with Le Mans, rather than manufacturers who make hum drum euroboxes who turn up at times when there is little competition and try to clean up.... At least Toyota had the decency to compete when there was lots of competition

Who knows, but if the ACO see a manufacturer such as Aston getting properly serious, then they will likely take note because others, such as Porsche, may be interested in moving up to the big class.

The Bentley victory, to me, always felt a little contrived. The rules certainly favoured them (wider tyres and bigger fuel tanks) and Audi chose not to enter any factory cars and divered the Joest resources to Bentley. But as a draw to the less technically minded fan then Bentley presence, and ultimately their victory, was a big plus for the race.

I think Porsche and Ford suffered more at the hands of the FIA (or whatever it was called at the time) rather than the ACO as Le Mans was a round of the world sportscar championship. The 917 was certainly a victim of that and paved the way for Matra's arrival and dominance for a few brief years.

But, despite all the manipulation, it does remain the Greatest Race in the World IMO and if the ACO manage to get the balance right 2011, or perhaps more realistically 2012 when the new cars have been refined, should be one hell of a race. Maybe it will see the return of other marques who want a crack at the overall win, such as Porsche, Alfa Romeo, Toyota and Nissan.

[Parsnip]

The problem is, the "Diesels have a massive advantage" thing is hard to justify - yes, the two fastest cars (R15 and 908) are both diesel, but I would bet that they are the cars with the most money and development behind them - If red bull were running a diesel and had the advantage that they currently do over Lotus, you could scream that diesel is faster, but it could be that the car with the most cash behind it has the advantage. Aston must feel they can now seriously compete with a petrol entry, so maybe it is a bit of both - as Richards said, they would not be there if they were at a performance disadvantages before wheels even hit tarmac.

Don't get me wrong, as technically great as the diesels are, they leave me feeling a bit cold compared to their petrol counterparts - seeing a R15 sweep through the dunlop curves at full chat is physics bending, but seeing one of the Lola AM's do it is proper hair on the back of the neck stuff.

Wether people like it or not, the diesels are here to stay - what I would hate to see happen is them being hobbled so much that Aston cruise the victory - I want to see them win, but don't want to see it gifted to them.

Edited by Parsnip on Sunday 12th September 09:00