SVA Questions Thinking of building a volvo based kit car....

[Petrolhead_Rich]

Ok, mad idea started here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

As you can see from that thread, I am not new to building cars, but I am new to SVA testing...

First off - if its based on the volvo and keeping all the front end standard and body standard, but just changing the back axle area, does it need SVA'ing?

Second, Firewall wise;
1) What materials does the firewall need to be made from? Fibreglass? Steel?
2) does it need to be totally airtight from the passenger area?

Third, cost of SVA?

Fourth, Will OEM Switches/steering etc be acceptable??

Thanks in advance (really hoping to find an SVA GURU...)

[simon3000]

looks like youre able to make a decent go of this project.sva is now iva cost is around £450 ish.loads of info on here http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/29/.
if you have the v5 for the engine and gearbox donor you should be able to get an age related registration rather than a q,the requirement when i registered my car was 2 major components from the donor (engine and gearbox)
to answer your other questions,if you alter the chassis you will definatly have to go through the hastle of iva,not sure on the bulkhead material,but would have thought steel would have been best and sealed to reduce the chance of fumes.oem switches and steering will be fine,airbag may be a problem though,more experienced advice will be needed in this area.

Edited by simon3000 on Monday 13th September 21:45

[Petrolhead_Rich]

simon3000 said:

looks like youre able to make a decent go of this project.sva is now iva cost is around £450 ish.loads of info on here http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/29/.
if you have the v5 for the engine and gearbox donor you should be able to get an age related registration rather than a q,the requirement when i registered my car was 2 major components from the donor (engine and gearbox).

thanks for the info.

With the age related registration, can it be based on the chassis instead of the engine??

Engine is from a V-reg (1999), chassis is from an '04 plate (2004)

Just need a good insurance quote and the angle grinder will be out....

[simon3000]

re registration things may have changed or be different for your type of project,just found this,i hope it helps.http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/DG_10014199

[spaximus]

As others have said it is IVA now which is a bit more detailed. If you look on the locost site there is a link somewhere to the manual which details the standard.
don't assume that the standard volvo bits will pass as some of the import cars failed on Radio facia radius and other silly things.
As far as I know the bulkhead will need to be alloy or steel sealed off from the engine bay.

Bigger issue will be brake balance. If you use the Audi brakes on the rear they will need either much bigger on the front or blance box pedal set up or some way of stopping the rears locking up first.

Sounds a great plan but will not be a walk in the park.

[Steve_D]

There is a link to the IVA manual at the top of this forum.

As you have modified the monoqueue you will need to pass IVA.

You will end up on a Q plate as the engine is not the original engine for the car.

Best of luck.

You will need to make a very neat and strong job if you are going to impress the IVA inspector.

Steve

[Petrolhead_Rich]

spaximus said:

Bigger issue will be brake balance. If you use the Audi brakes on the rear they will need either much bigger on the front or blance box pedal set up or some way of stopping the rears locking up first.

Sounds a great plan but will not be a walk in the park.

planning on putting the smaller audi rear discs on the front audi hubs (that will be the rear on the finished car) so this should be ok right?

Audi ABS pump controls the brake bias electronically so should be ok??

I know its not going to be a walk in the park....
(starting to think this may not be such a great idea....)

Steve_D said:

There is a link to the IVA manual at the top of this forum.

As you have modified the monoqueue you will need to pass IVA.

You will end up on a Q plate as the engine is not the original engine for the car.

Best of luck.

You will need to make a very neat and strong job if you are going to impress the IVA inspector.

Steve

Can I not keep the Reg of either the Audi (engine donor) or volvo (bodyshell donor)??

Had a good read through the IVA manual, good read!

Strong and neat job should be ok, pretty handy with the welder.

Edited by Petrolhead_Rich on Tuesday 14th September 16:07

[Steve_D]

Petrolhead_Rich said:

......Can I not keep the Reg of either the Audi (engine donor) or volvo (bodyshell donor)??.....

You will not keep the reg of either car as it is now neither one or the other.
At best you would get an age related plate i.e. they will take a new number out of the register from the same year as the car. However this would only work if you were using the engine and chassis from the same car.
So you will get a Q plate...no big deal.

Steve

[singlecoil]

Petrolhead_Rich said:

[b]Audi ABS pump controls the brake bias electronically so should be ok??[

I believe the IVA testers remove the fuse on ABS cars to make sure the bias is ok without the ABS assistance.

[Petrolhead_Rich]

as another idea, if i put the audi engine/gearbox in the front of the volvo, does that constitute an engine change or a conversion?

[Steve_D]

Petrolhead_Rich said:

as another idea, if i put the audi engine/gearbox in the front of the volvo, does that constitute an engine change or a conversion?

If the engine change requires any modification of the chassis/monocoque you will still need to IVA it and DVLA will need to allocate a new VIN.

Steve

[EFA]

Wrong. Show me where it says that here http://www.legislation.gov.uk

[Steve_D]

EFA said:

Wrong. Show me where it says that here http://www.legislation.gov.uk

Assuming for the moment that this comment was aimed at me (although you don't make it clear) it would have been more helpfull to point at some specific piece of legislation rather than a site covering every piece of legislation applicable to the whole of the UK.

Below is an extract from this site. (I have added the bold)
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSell...


Registering a radically altered vehicle

The registration of radically altered vehicles covers vehicles which are substantially altered from their original specification, but which are not kit conversions. In these cases the vehicle components used from the original vehicle will be given a numerical value in order to retain the original registration mark.
Allocating a vehicle registration mark

The vehicle must score eight or more points to retain the original registration mark. If less than eight points are scored or a second-hand or modified chassis or altered monocoque bodyshell is used an Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA), enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA), single vehicle approval (SVA) or motorcycle single vehicle approval (MSVA) certificate will be required to register the vehicle. A 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

Steve

[EFA]

I know people on here make a living out of bigging up IVA,but what you have quoted is the the DVLA's own, made up, policy. It is as mandatory as if I wrote it on the back of a fag packet. There is no legislation to support IVA other than for the registration of new cars.

[singlecoil]

EFA said:

I know people on here make a living out of bigging up IVA,but what you have quoted is the the DVLA's own, made up, policy. It is as mandatory as if I wrote it on the back of a fag packet. There is no legislation to support IVA other than for the registration of new cars.

It may not be 'mandatory' in the sense you mean, I certainly don't remember anything in the news about Parliament debating the finer points of what radii can be allowed, or the size of the test spheres, but as I understand they have handed these decisions to the regulatory bodies concerned.

What you need to explain, if your comments are going to hold any water, is just how someone is going to register a kit car if they don't have a Minister's Approval Certificate? It's all very well to keep grinding on about how they have VOSA/DVLA have no statutory powers, but they are the ones that write the certificates and issue the numbers.

Edited by singlecoil on Thursday 23 September 09:45

[Mr2Mike]

EFA said:

I know people on here make a living out of bigging up IVA,but what you have quoted is the the DVLA's own, made up, policy. It is as mandatory as if I wrote it on the back of a fag packet. There is no legislation to support IVA other than for the registration of new cars.

So you challenged someone to find a statement regarding Q plates on a specific website, and when they do you effectively say "That doesn't count"?

Just like the freewheel on a bicycle; back peddling is a futile effort.

[singlecoil]

Perhaps EFA has nothing more to say on this subject? He was on the kit car forum at 13.09.

[EFA]

singlecoil said:

What you need to explain, if your comments are going to hold any water, is just how someone is going to register a kit car if they don't have a Minister's Approval Certificate? It's all very well to keep grinding on about how they have VOSA/DVLA have no statutory powers, but they are the ones that write the certificates and issue the numbers.

Er if you read my post I said:

EFA said:

There is no legislation to support IVA other than for the registration of new cars.

By new car I should clarify - a car for which a new logbook is required. In the case of a kit car with no donor, this is a new vehicle.

[singlecoil]

EFA said:

singlecoil said:

What you need to explain, if your comments are going to hold any water, is just how someone is going to register a kit car if they don't have a Minister's Approval Certificate? It's all very well to keep grinding on about how they have VOSA/DVLA have no statutory powers, but they are the ones that write the certificates and issue the numbers.

Er if you read my post I said:

EFA said:

There is no legislation to support IVA other than for the registration of new cars.

By new car I should clarify - a car for which a new logbook is required. In the case of a kit car with no donor, this is a new vehicle.

I did read your post. Am I to assume that what you mean is that it is perfectly satisfactory to build a kit and drive it on the donor's registration? If this is not what you mean, what do you mean?

[EFA]

singlecoil said:

Am I to assume that what you mean is that it is perfectly satisfactory to build a kit and drive it on the donor's registration? If this is not what you mean, what do you mean?

You do like to twist things don't you.

What I am saying is there is no legislative system by whichb the DVLA can prevent this so long as you provide them with the information requuired by law on the V5.

Whether the car is built to a satisfactory standard is a separate point entirely. Sadly other than the MOT there is no legislative requirement to have your car examined - unless you a dumb enough to pay for the non-legislatively enforced IVA.

Its pretty simple and fully explained above. If you still don't get it, speak with a lawyer:-) Numerous cases have been lost by the DVLA with regard to attempts to enforce INF26. I won one, and I know a number of other people who also won.

Based upon INF26, and to quote the words of a gentleman who knows far more about this than you or I (whose identity I will not reveal where the DVLA's prying eyes can see it) there are some ridiculous aspects:

IVA legislative expert in the kit car press said:

According to INF 26 the following would apply:

If you drive a monocoque car and dent a wing whihc is not bolted on, the repair is subject to full IVA of the vehicle.

If you drive a TVR and replace the chassis outriggers due to corrosion, the repair is subject to full IVA of the vehicle.

If you add any accessory to a car which requires drilling of the monocoque to secure (such as a radio aerial on a taxi) the repair is subject to full IVA of the vehicle.

Point made? Its ridiculous and unenforcable. You can continue to make money oout of people providing IVA related services, thats your perogative. I would not want to be going to get screwed over for the IVA fee, the inconvenince and the need to build a car which replicates a '60's vehicle with lots of obviously non period parts, if I were ever intending to road register my car.

I am of course building my car for track use only, as that is the only place the real one was used.

Edited by EFA on Sunday 26th September 10:09