original 450 or 400 and get it modded?

[vonboardos]

Hi again.
I am in the market for a 450 Chim and drove a wonderful 400 Chim last weekend which had a smooth and very powerful upgraded engine done by Peninsula. It had half an engine upgrade and is now running a 4.6Ltr. (I've driven a 400 and i was ,sorry to cause any anger, a bit dissapointed)
This 4.6 had a Tornado chip too. I used to own a 450SE Wedge. In fact it was the last one ever built! It was very powerful, but not quite as powerful as the '4.6' i drove last weekend. According to the owner, his mate who owns a 5ltr cannot tell much difference between the two.

So, the reson for this thread is this:
Do i purchase a cheaper but perfect condition 400, then take the car to Peninsula and get the same engine upgrade as mentioned above? OR, do I just go ahead and buy a nice original 450?

Surely the original 450 would be more likely to let me down and need work done?

I've seen some beautiful 400's in the exact spec i want (and i'm VERY fussy), so maybe it would be better to do the former?

Sorry i've rambled a bit here but i'm sure some of you get my thinking.

Of course, a rather important factor here is how much Peninsula would charge to do this conversion - making it worth it or not. Also the 400 engine they would work on would have to be in good order to start with otherwise i could see myself running up a huge bill with them just after buying the thing.

Whatcha reckon?

[shnozz]

sorry havent got time to reply properly and deeply hurt you have suggested my car is slow

but.... think about insurance if you modify a 4 litre as against a standard 4.5.

would bet that a modded 4.6 litre will be a fair bit quicker than a 4.5 though I must say. Why not just buy a 5 incidentally?

[chim500nj]

I would say buy a 5 ltr, the insurance is not that much more than a 4 ltr and you will not run the risk of any problems associated with a tuned or re-chipped engine. I am not saying that you will get any problems with a chipped or tuned engine just that in my opinion to change any manufacturers settings within the Ecu is potentially asking for trouble...

I used to have a good powerful 4 ltr and the difference in torque with the 5 ltr is fantastic I also do not find it that much more lumpy around town...

Hope this helps

[vonboardos]

I'm not sure that helps much!

I did originally want a 5.0 but not sure i want to afford the extra money needed for a good one. I also do a lot of commuting and know that the 4.5 is smoother and less trouble, which is one of the reasons why TVR kept this model going and killed off the other 2.

I'm sure Peninsula would have an interesting reply to your first paragraph! I don't honestly think they would undertake such a mod without making sure that the ECU would be ok, do you?

Insurance wise no probs - it's not any different.

[pbrettle]

Why do people modify their cars? Cos they can. Its fun (and expensive) and you can do what you want rather than just a couple of things. So you choose, you investigate and talk to people and eventually do it - ending up pretty happy with the results.... yes, it would be cheaper and simpler to go for a 500, but if you want to have a "hobby" get a 400 and keep the spare cash to modify it.... alternatively stick in the middle and get a 450...

As the phrase goes - the choice is yours...

[Nano2nd]

i am in the same boat as you, i'm very fussy and i don't want a 4.0 as it'll be slower than my sierra lol.

i would consider purchasing with the view to modifing in the near future. obviously insurance is a concern though aren't the later 4.0 the same as the 4.5 5.0 with the exception of the engine and wheels? or are there any other differences? brakes? suspension etc?

[Shnozz]

Nano2nd said:

i am in the same boat as you, i'm very fussy and i don't want a 4.0 as it'll be slower than my sierra lol.

might be slower lol but you wont have to restrict yourself to Big Mac and fries and more. Perhaps more importantly, you wont be driving a ford sierra any more. lol.

I trust that you have test driven each model chimaera?

If you want to play top trumps with your own car down the pub, go buy the 5 litre. I do find it amusing those people who say the 4 litre is too slow for them based on autocar figures compared to their current choice of car without having driven one. The performance figures between every TVR in the range could be swapped around with a decent driver in a 4 litre and failure to get a good start off the line in a cerbera 4.5 RR.

IMO I shall only consider a more powerful chimaera or griff if it had upgraded suspension. In my opinion, the handling is pushed enough as it is to deal with 4 litres, let alone any more. Its for that reason that when i want more power I will have to go down the route of a later design TVR with a better set up as standard.

[aaandy]

I'd say save your money on the upgrades and go straight for a 5.0. That way, if after a period of time you are still hankering for even more performance you can upgrade that.

And then there is always NOS!!!!

[raceboy]

Shnozz said:

If you want to play top trumps with your own car down the pub, go buy the 5 litre. I do find it amusing those people who say the 4 litre is too slow for them based on autocar figures compared to their current choice of car without having driven one. The performance figures between every TVR in the range could be swapped around with a decent driver in a 4 litre and failure to get a good start off the line in a cerbera 4.5 RR.

Agree with you on this
I've got a few mates localy with different model TVR's it used to be 4.3 Pre Cat Grif, S2 and my 4.0 Chimaera that would go out sparring with each other, the S would stay with us until max velocity on long straights was achieved and the I've seen the same S flashing Tuscans on trackdays to get out the way the only mods to this car are to the handling
The Grif has now become a 4.5 Cerbera and this is fractionaly quicker than the 4.0 Chimaera in real world situations, but most of that is down to the owner being more confident in the handling And the speeds at which it would pull away from the Chimaera are so high that they aren't reached that often on the public road
I'd be really interested to do a blind testing of 3 cars technically the same but with just different size engines back to back around by favorite B-Roads just to see if I could spot any worthwhile difference
Obviously if you just want pub bragging rights just get yourself a new boot badge, you wouldn't be the 1st

[Nano2nd]

Shnozz said:

Perhaps more importantly, you wont be driving a ford sierra any more. lol.

hey! i take offense to that! i'll be keeping the sierra to use too

lol down the pub, i'm not interested in pub talk only real performance i want a car that goes like the sierra but looks like a chimera hehe and the 4.0 doesn't meet those requirements. I haven't driven the 5.0 varient but have driven a 5.0 griff so should image i'm covered on that one.

I understand what your saying about handling but you can save that for the track, on the road i don't tend to go hauling round corners putting my handling to the test. thats how you get killed

[Shnozz]

Nano2nd said:

Shnozz said: Perhaps more importantly, you wont be driving a ford sierra any more. lol. hey! i take offense to that! i'll be keeping the sierra to use too lol down the pub, i'm not interested in pub talk only real performance i want a car that goes like the sierra but looks like a chimera hehe and the 4.0 doesn't meet those requirements. I haven't driven the 5.0 varient but have driven a 5.0 griff so should image i'm covered on that one. I understand what your saying about handling but you can save that for the track, on the road i don't tend to go hauling round corners putting my handling to the test. thats how you get killed

You assume it doesnt meet your requirements. You may take offence at me calling your car a Sierra. Sorry about that. I'll call it an XR4i from now on if it makes you feel better.

People who write off the 4 litre without trying it just make me chuckle thats all. In my experience they are the ones that are constantly telling people how many bhp they have got. They also tend to be the ones that spend their money on a K & N air filter to get another 2 bhp rather than a ridedrive day which would equate to actually utilising another 100bhp.

fair enough for some people the 4 isnt quick enough and they want a 5. But to come into the ring from a sierra, alebit tuned, to then dismiss the 4 litre without even so much as a test drive seems a little hasty.

PS - if your profile is accurate in terms of the bhp output of the Sierra, how the hell is it quicker than a Chimaera with similar power output, more torque and about half the weight?

PPS - if its just about straight line speed and pub talk - why not buy a cerbera 4.2 which will destroy pretty much everything on the road. Apart from Sierras of course

[greenv8s]

vonboardos said:

I did originally want a 5.0 but not sure i want to afford the extra money needed for a good one

Starting with a 400 or 450 and modifying it to 500 power levels will cost a lot lot more than buying a 500 in the first place, and you have all the associated problems with brake and suspension upgrades, more expensive insurance and so on plus eventually when you come to sell you won't recover the money you have spent on it. People who think they can get the extra performance 'on the cheap' are kidding themselves. If you want a more powerful car, buy a more powerful car.

[Nano2nd]

Shnozz, the offense thing was a joke m8

don't get me wrong i understand exactly what your saying, i chuckle to myself when i read posts about the 500 owners worrying coz there cars don't make the tvr 340bhp figure, when the reality the are just about the fastest car on the road.

well my new engine will be making over 300bhp it'll be quicker trust me lol. Seriously though i've had the go ahead from her that must be obeyed to buy this car on the priviso that i stop going on about wanting this car and that car lol. This WILL be the car, if you know what i mean, looks fantastic, goes like stink etc. I'll be honest, i dove right in a said i'm getting a cerbera, 2nd best looking car ever fastest car ever (okay in the price range) and sensible prices to boot. I never jump into anything blind and after doin lots of research on the cerb i was frightened off by the potential problems/cost etc. I've looked at the next best thing and it comes down to the chim unless anyone else can suggest a car that offers the same for similar money

My point being if i'm finaly getting the CAR i want to feel like i did get THE car. I just don't think i will get that fealing with a 4.0

[Shnozz]

Nano2nd said:

Shnozz, the offense thing was a joke m8 don't get me wrong i understand exactly what your saying, i chuckle to myself when i read posts about the 500 owners worrying coz there cars don't make the tvr 340bhp figure, when the reality the are just about the fastest car on the road. well my new engine will be making over 300bhp it'll be quicker trust me lol. Seriously though i've had the go ahead from her that must be obeyed to buy this car on the priviso that i stop going on about wanting this car and that car lol. This WILL be the car, if you know what i mean, looks fantastic, goes like stink etc. I'll be honest, i dove right in a said i'm getting a cerbera, 2nd best looking car ever fastest car ever (okay in the price range) and sensible prices to boot. I never jump into anything blind and after doin lots of research on the cerb i was frightened off by the potential problems/cost etc. I've looked at the next best thing and it comes down to the chim unless anyone else can suggest a car that offers the same for similar money My point being if i'm finaly getting the CAR i want to feel like i did get THE car. I just don't think i will get that fealing with a 4.0

fair enough - you best update your profile then cos at 230bhp you would be dicked by a 4 litre chim. Even with 300bhp I would be surprised if the bhp/tonne was much different.

I do hear what you are saying - now that you have explained your circumstances it makes more sense too. At the end of the day, the 500 is as ultimate as you can get for this model, so go for it. Just get sick and tired of seeing the "i want a 500 cos my MR2 does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds so I need the one taht gets there in 4.5 rather than 4.9 etc etc". Your first post did suggest that to be the case.

The reality, which you will experience once you go on yoru first run out with other TVR's, is that none of them will appear that much quicker than the next car. They are all extremely quick and whilst a 500 will pull away slightly, it doesnt head over the horizon as quick as you might think. The main thing I have noticed is that the torque seems more apparent on the 500 and overtaking is a doddle in any gear, whereas I often drop it down a cog on the 4 litre to make it a swift overtake.

Now if you want the ultimate....I went out with a mate in his 4.5 V8 cerbera - around 400bhp. But that was never enough so that now has 150bhp Nos. Thats quick.

[MOD500]

Nano - are you sure a tiv with a big V8 with loads of torque is the car for you, when you have a brace of mint 'turbo nutter' cars if you pardon the expression. There is a rush when the power comes in, but not the all or nothing explosion of a big turbo engine.

The 400 you test drove must have been running abit rough as they are very quick, and would seem fast even to yourself coming from quick Fords.

Though if you like modding cars, as you seem to do, and want a tiv, then you'd be best to buy a 500 first. As you would spend alot of dough getting a 400 or 450 up to that power level, plus the 500 has better brakes and suspension out of the box.

Hope that helps

Martyn.

[apache]

MOD500 said:

There is a rush when the power comes in, but not the all or nothing explosion of a big turbo engine.

Or you could play around with it and have a big V8 that has all or nothing explosion of a big turbo engine

[Nano2nd]

I seee your point Martyn however my usages would be more that road racing, basically the sierra is a race car or a near to damn it as a can be. I want a car i can go fast in and also drive to the south of france in if required, not to mention go down roads that have speed humps on lol

As stated above the black 4i will be staying anyway my next engine will be running almost 400bhp if things go to plan anyway

as apache has mentioned turbo cars aint so reliable, i have the sierra to play with i would like a tvr to jump in and drive rather than think about what i'll do if i twist a driveshaft or drop the box or lump etc.

plus you can't beat the sound of a V8

[Shnozz]

Nano2nd said:

I seee your point Martyn however my usages would be more that road racing, basically the sierra is a race car or a near to damn it as a can be. I want a car i can go fast in and also drive to the south of france in if required, not to mention go down roads that have speed humps on lol As stated above the black 4i will be staying anyway my next engine will be running almost 400bhp if things go to plan anyway as apache has mentioned turbo cars aint so reliable, i have the sierra to play with i would like a tvr to jump in and drive rather than think about what i'll do if i twist a driveshaft or drop the box or lump etc. plus you can't beat the sound of a V8

you want a TVR to go places with speed humps

I agree though, the sound of a V8 and trips to the south of france. Oh yes.

BTW - good point also from Martyn is about the brakes of the 500. An added bonus as well as 340bhp.

[jsr]

Dont underestimate the 400. They may be the slowest modern TVR, but relative to other cars, they are still faster than 95% of cars on the road.

I've only come across one car that really challenged me - a modified BMW M5. From a standing start right up to an indicated 120mph, i was only just pulling away from the Beemer... this occured on the Autobahn by the way!

Go for the biggest engine you can afford if it is going to be THE CAR! You're obviously used to driving powerful cars, so shouldn't get into much trouble with an even more powerful TVR.

Before my TVR, i owned a Fiesta Zetec-S, so a 400HC was the sensible option for me. After nearly 6 months of ownership, i'm getting to the point where i could use more power in the dry, but it still commands respect in the wet!

There will always be someone with a faster car than you so get the car you want and the one that makes you smile every time you look at it, let alone drive it! Even better if it's seriously quick too!

[MOD500]

Nano and jsr, if you like giving it big licks with the right pedal, come to the next Bruntingthorpe v-max day in Leicester (should be june time I think....keep an eye out in the events forum). 2 miles of straight run way for maximum naughtiness. I am sure the Shnozzster will confirm it is indeed a great day out.




MOD.