carbon wheels - are they worth it

[Rob_T]

i'm looking into getting some carbon clincher wheels. i will admit the main reason is simply because i think they look great. pure vanity, nothing more. but do they actually make riding any more pleasurable / faster / smoother than the 'stock' wheels that i have on my bike already (giant defy advanced 3). i typically go for 30 mile rides at a time round the 'lower' chilterns and have found good routes with fast sweeping downhills, good flat straights and steady easy uphills.

what would people recommend as a good, reliable, lasting make / brand / model? i don't want to go crazy on the budget but am relatively open on price

[Parsnip]

Short answer - yes, they make a difference.

Long answer - Yes they make a difference, but are only worth it if you race, or are so loaded you can afford to spend a fortune on wheels (and replacing those wheels) that you don't really need.

I train on alloy wheels for several reasons - they are cheaper (both to buy and to replace), braking on carbon rims is crap - carbon with an alloy braking section eliminate this, but my wheels don't have one - and if I train on the training wheels on, then put the race wheels on, the bike feels a lot quicker, which is just that you want before a race.

I'm not trying to say don't get them - I applaud the guys who show up for the slow group ride on their Cervelo - who cares? But they are fairly impractical - I would not want my race wheels to be my only set - I wince when riding some of the roads round here on my training wheels, if I was riding the race wheels I would be stopping every 500m to check they were ok.

Money no object - Lightweight Standard (although I believe they are crap in a windtunnel, but the coolness of LWs can't be overlooked)
I'm rich - Zipp 404/HED Jet 60/Sram S60
I'm skint (me) - Ebay for used "I'm rich" wheels

[anonymous-user]

i thought about it long and hard but have decided that some Shimano RS80 carbon laminates would suit me far better for a number of reasons, firstly i like climbing, i rarely spend time in the saddle in a position that would benefit from aero rims and i ride in groups where the aero rims are not providing the same advantage as if i was solo.

most deeper profile carbon rims are touching 1.8-2kg per pair (though 404s are a bit lighter) and do provide the rider with a noticeable puch when you get the wheels spinning upto a good rpm though so if the route is flat you should get a real benefit from riding solo.

have a look at mavic cosmic carbones which will be easily found and subject to sales, strada wheels or edge handbuilts. http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/gear-news/edge-carbon...
http://www.stradawheels.co.uk/shop/20mm-carbon-fib...
the planet x 50mm carbon clinchers are still a favourite on the race/tt/tri scene due to cost and performance....

zipps are nice but expensive and personally too specialist for the casual rider who doesnt race. the difference between 202s and 404s is massive in terms of rigidity, if you are much over 12 stone, 202s will be useless as they will flex horribly. 404s are a lot of monety to put on a mid-range bike and the risk of damaging them would scare me off riding on most of the UKs roads!

[itsnotarace]

Both the previous posters have covered it perfectly imho. The few watts power you save for the deep aero section on the flat will be spent on uphill sections as the carbon wheels will generally be heavier unless you are spending a couple of grand and upwards.

I'd say get a decent alloy clincher, or alloy/carbon composites like the aforementioned 1500g Shimano RS80's at £315 from Merlin or the Dura Aces which come in at 1387g for £495 with free wheelbags from Planet X

http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/Bike+Shop/Wheels/Roa...
http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/WPSHDA24MM7850...

You can use standard brake pads on both of the above as they have a thin alloy brake surface layered on top of the carbon.

[Jameshs]

Sorry to hijack but has anyone had any experiances with the Dura Ace wheels? I could shave 323g's off my bike weight with a set so i am tempted

[itsnotarace]

A friend of mine has had a set for the last 11 months and really rates them. Hubs are brilliant and they stand up to his weight (90kg) fine. I would have bought a set myself if I hadn't bagged some brand new unused Ksyrium Elites for £280

[Parsnip]

itsnotarace said:

Both the previous posters have covered it perfectly imho. The few watts power you save for the deep aero section on the flat will be spent on uphill sections as the carbon wheels will generally be heavier unless you are spending a couple of grand and upwards.

Not what I was saying at all. Carbon wheels will be lighter than an alloy rim of the same section.

Aero generally trumps weight - From memory the magic speed is about 13mph when aerodynamics starts to matter more than weight (not to mention the added stiffness of a deep rim - ever wondered why Cav has a big deep section rear wheel?)- hence why pros will ride deep wheels on all but the longest and steepest mountain stages.

Carbon wheels are not necessarily deep section - 202s are built for climbing, 303/404s are general use (pretty much anything the UK can throw at you, you will be better with a deeper rim) and 808/1080s are for TTing.

[NitroNick]

I would recommend dep section carbon wheel, not only do they look great they also sound amazing. There is a really distinctive sound from deep section rims.
However they do suffer hugely from cross winds. You will not be able to run a deep section front rim in windy conditions so you will need a spare front wheel.
If you are very light you will really suffer in the cross winds and it is dangerous when you are passing non sheltered areas on downhills.
I'm ~80kgs and on a recent ride, going downhill past a gate I was blown onto the other side of the road and narrowly avoided hitting a ditch.
In summary, they look and sound good but can be dangerous.
Carbon cosmics are great value at the moment try cyclesuperstore.ie they are about 750 euro, but I have hears that some of them have hub issues.

[itsnotarace]

Parsnip said:

Carbon wheels will be lighter than an alloy rim of the same section.

Yes which is why I added the "unless you are spending a couple of grand" at the end of my sentence

Parsnip said:

Aero generally trumps weight - From memory the magic speed is about 13mph when aerodynamics starts to matter more than weight (not to mention the added stiffness of a deep rim - ever wondered why Cav has a big deep section rear wheel?)

I'm not disagreeing with you, I believe in the science behind it. However in the real world, where we are not all built like Andy Schleck (so therefore have a large surface area to break the wind!), saving a few watts in power on the flat to knock 10 seconds off our regular hour long evening training loop in the park seems a bit of a waste of money to me. But, if you have money to burn they sure do look good

Parsnip said:

hence why pros will ride deep wheels on all but the longest and steepest mountain stages.

Ahh right I thought they rode what their sponsors gave them

Parsnip said:

Carbon wheels are not necessarily deep section - 202s are built for climbing, 303/404s are general use (pretty much anything the UK can throw at you, you will be better with a deeper rim) and 808/1080s are for TTing.

Yes, again not disagreeing with you. I just don't see the benefits for your average non-competing leisure cyclist.

So in essence my thoughts are:

Carbon rim positives:
- Lightweight depending on cross section
- Aerodynamic
- Can be stiff (again depending on cross section and construction)

Carbon rim negatives:
- Heavy depending on cross section
- Suffer in crosswinds depnding on cross section
- Fragile with regards to potholes and road debris
- Expensive
- Can be flexy (again depending on cross section and construction)
- Harder to find in clincher form than tubular
- Generally poor braking surface performance
- Necessary to use carbon specific brake pads

I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to say how they have used Edge 1.25's as everyday wheel for 3 years over cobblestones etc etc If I could afford it, I would do too

[itsnotarace]

Bargaintastic

http://www.racewheelsuk.com/Sch25_Ex_Show.htm

[anonymous-user]

itsnotarace said:

Both the previous posters have covered it perfectly imho.

i stopped reading after this point

[okgo]

From my research on my next wheels the Dura Ace are one of the best all rounders that is on the market. I'll be buying them for that reason.

[Parsnip]

itsnotarace said:

I'm not disagreeing with you, I believe in the science behind it. However in the real world, where we are not all built like Andy Schleck (so therefore have a large surface area to break the wind!), saving a few watts in power on the flat to knock 10 seconds off our regular hour long evening training loop in the park seems a bit of a waste of money to me. But, if you have money to burn they sure do look good

Its a difficult one - no "leisure" cyclist has the talent to really need a pro level bike with carbon rims. But by the same argument, no "leisure" driver (such as the majority of those found on PH) has the talent to need an Exige with semi-slick tyres.

Like I said, I applaud the guy who pootles about in the slow group ride on his £6000 superbike - if you can afford it, why not? You might not be getting the most out of it, but hey, its your money.

itsnotarace said:

Ahh right I thought they rode what their sponsors gave them

Some do (Evans using a Bora front in the 2009 TdF TTs, even though they are about as aero as a brick) and some don't - rebranded wheels and those with the decals removed - Liquigas come to mind before Mavic started making deep wheels as do High Road/Columbia with unbranded Hed and Zipp wheels over the years. Reading Cav's book, he was using a 404 rear on a stage where he thought there was going to be no sprint, when it turned out there was, he swapped for an 808 (unbranded, natch)

Also, don't let anyone tell you that you will have trouble handling them in a crosswind, my 50mm wheels are fine (and I only weigh 71kg) - even the tri-weenies manage to ride ridiculous rims at Kona, and it is pretty much the windiest place you can race.

More important that all that (even the blingness of them) is the way deep section carbon rims sound

[Muzzlehatch]

Carbon clinchers - for under £1,000 go for Reynolds Assault, or even cheaper you can go for a heavier but generally OK generic rim such as Gigantex. £1-2K is ZIPP, HED, Reynolds DV, ENVE. At the top end of a few grand, you've got Lightweights, RZR, etc.

I use Shimano Dura Ace for everyday wheels (because they are quite frankly bombproof whilst also being reasonably light and aero), and Reynolds DV46 for racing/TT/Tri.

[HundredthIdiot]

I have a set of Soul C5.0 carbon clinchers. They're fantastic.

[mrandy]

For normal road riding they are a waste of money but make a huge difference for racing ,more than say a light frame etc.
Saying that mine stay on the bike if its sunny and I go for a pootle.Also consider,how much difference in feel top of the range tyres will make to heavier wheels