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Carrying out some fairly major replacements of heating & electrical systems at home.
There have been at least two previous extensions in the past.
Almost EVERY single item is bodged.
The weekends remedials include supporting, fixing, then cutting to a proper length the drainage from the kitchen sink after needing to access the tap connections to clear an air-lock & cutting back the CWS pipe to a point that wasn't behind the end of the drain pipe so the connection can actually be accessed.
Also, replacing a switch back-box because the conduit used didn't line up with the KO's in the original one, the cable being bent across & covered in the car filler used to seat the box.
Previous gems include:
The dry-lining screws though the centre of the capping over a ring-circuit drop, damaging the insulation exposing bare conductors.
The highway of central heating & H&C WS pipe-work running back & fourth because no existing piece has ever been removed to accommodate a new arrangement, just 'tacked-on' to whatever was there already.
The wiring system made up of numerous short pieces of wire & junction boxes running in all directions, over/under/wrapped around any other item with a 1 metre radius.
The bathroom ventilation fans without any means of isolation.
The supply to the garage, fed via an RCD only in 4mm² SWA, with no overload protection & mounted in an enclosure which when the cover is snapped shut, will not let the switch operate.
There will be more to come I'm sure.
Then we get on to the PVC-u windows & the other non-services item like guttering. I mean, how effing difficult can it be?
Anyone else experience the same or am I just turning into Victor Meldrew (as the mrs suggests)?
I realise that part/all of these works may not have been carried out by a builder & acknowledge that there are some very good eggs in the industry
There have been at least two previous extensions in the past.
Almost EVERY single item is bodged.
The weekends remedials include supporting, fixing, then cutting to a proper length the drainage from the kitchen sink after needing to access the tap connections to clear an air-lock & cutting back the CWS pipe to a point that wasn't behind the end of the drain pipe so the connection can actually be accessed.
Also, replacing a switch back-box because the conduit used didn't line up with the KO's in the original one, the cable being bent across & covered in the car filler used to seat the box.
Previous gems include:
The dry-lining screws though the centre of the capping over a ring-circuit drop, damaging the insulation exposing bare conductors.
The highway of central heating & H&C WS pipe-work running back & fourth because no existing piece has ever been removed to accommodate a new arrangement, just 'tacked-on' to whatever was there already.
The wiring system made up of numerous short pieces of wire & junction boxes running in all directions, over/under/wrapped around any other item with a 1 metre radius.
The bathroom ventilation fans without any means of isolation.
The supply to the garage, fed via an RCD only in 4mm² SWA, with no overload protection & mounted in an enclosure which when the cover is snapped shut, will not let the switch operate.
There will be more to come I'm sure.
Then we get on to the PVC-u windows & the other non-services item like guttering. I mean, how effing difficult can it be?
Anyone else experience the same or am I just turning into Victor Meldrew (as the mrs suggests)?
I realise that part/all of these works may not have been carried out by a builder & acknowledge that there are some very good eggs in the industry
When we bought our house in 2001, on the first day we moved in we had raw sewage in the garden. I made a call and the owners had no previous problems apparently
Our £30,000 budget to do a bit cosmetic work ended up costing over £200,000. I'm not exaggerating, almost every element of the house including the drainage and patio had to be ripped out and made good. It sounds like the builder of your house may well have cut his teeth in West Sussex! If you have ever seen the film The Moneypit, you'll know exactly how we felt. We had no hot water aside from a shower for 6 months, and lived in inches of dust for 9 or so.
I didn't bother to take action against the previous owners, as I believe the work was probably carried out some years ago by a previous owner who was by then, dead.
In short, I feel your pain!
Our £30,000 budget to do a bit cosmetic work ended up costing over £200,000. I'm not exaggerating, almost every element of the house including the drainage and patio had to be ripped out and made good. It sounds like the builder of your house may well have cut his teeth in West Sussex! If you have ever seen the film The Moneypit, you'll know exactly how we felt. We had no hot water aside from a shower for 6 months, and lived in inches of dust for 9 or so.
I didn't bother to take action against the previous owners, as I believe the work was probably carried out some years ago by a previous owner who was by then, dead.
In short, I feel your pain!
Edited by M-J-B on Sunday 26th September 18:29
Never personally,but at our previous house we got a new neighhbour,a sparks by trade,he set about fitting an electric shower in the bathroom.
The previous chap told him he had just fitted a new radiator in the bathroom,when the new fellar pulled up the floorboards to fit the wiring he found two lengths of garden hose pipe running right through to the room next door.
The previous chap told him he had just fitted a new radiator in the bathroom,when the new fellar pulled up the floorboards to fit the wiring he found two lengths of garden hose pipe running right through to the room next door.
I feel your pain.
We moved into our current home in 2001, and are still finding bits of work done by the previous owners that fall some way short of an acceptable standard.
(For example, there was a leak from the bath waste shortly after we moved in, which created a small stain on the kitchen ceiling. Simple repair in most cases. Not in this house, to get to the pipe we had to take the side panel off the bath, as per usual. Except in our house, they'd laid the laminate floor up against the side of the bath panel, then built a boxing for the pipework on top of the laminate and in front of the panel. When I eventually got that lot off and found the trap, the reason it was leaking was obvious, the pipe was too short. However, I couldn't just replace the pipe as it was fitted into a compression fitting on the outside of the wall. So I got up the ladder to find that because the pipe was too short, they'd mortared the compression ring into a hole in the brickwork!)
We now know that any work we consider, needs additional time / money to put right the previous works.
We moved into our current home in 2001, and are still finding bits of work done by the previous owners that fall some way short of an acceptable standard.
(For example, there was a leak from the bath waste shortly after we moved in, which created a small stain on the kitchen ceiling. Simple repair in most cases. Not in this house, to get to the pipe we had to take the side panel off the bath, as per usual. Except in our house, they'd laid the laminate floor up against the side of the bath panel, then built a boxing for the pipework on top of the laminate and in front of the panel. When I eventually got that lot off and found the trap, the reason it was leaking was obvious, the pipe was too short. However, I couldn't just replace the pipe as it was fitted into a compression fitting on the outside of the wall. So I got up the ladder to find that because the pipe was too short, they'd mortared the compression ring into a hole in the brickwork!)
We now know that any work we consider, needs additional time / money to put right the previous works.
As a sparks, it reeks of builders cutting out sparks, but charging for one anyway !!
(5 years at college for a reason !!)
I see it every week and its the home owner who suffers !!
Developers are the worst, get a moody certificate, a man who knows a bit about electrics, and shazam.
It'll always rear its head....but they're long gone.
This week..... kitchen floor up, double pattress with a bank plate, and nine twin and earths into it !!!
It all worked fine mind you, which is the real problem here....people think because it works , it means its safe/ok
This forum is full of nimrods who swear sparks are over-rated and unnessessary.
N.B.
4mm Swa is fine for a garage (if protected accordingly...distance and load apply), unless you are running a sweat shop down there ????
Sorry for your troubles
(5 years at college for a reason !!)
I see it every week and its the home owner who suffers !!
Developers are the worst, get a moody certificate, a man who knows a bit about electrics, and shazam.
It'll always rear its head....but they're long gone.
This week..... kitchen floor up, double pattress with a bank plate, and nine twin and earths into it !!!
It all worked fine mind you, which is the real problem here....people think because it works , it means its safe/ok
This forum is full of nimrods who swear sparks are over-rated and unnessessary.
N.B.
4mm Swa is fine for a garage (if protected accordingly...distance and load apply), unless you are running a sweat shop down there ????
Sorry for your troubles
When I bought my house, the previous owners had taken down a walk in the kitchen. However they had not adjust the electrics, so the only light switch was on the other side of the room.
They also built wardrobes into the eves (spell), but left the lightswitches on the wall so they were inside the wardrobe. So you had to open the wardrobe to out the light on!! Eight years they lived like that!
Loads of other stuff too, ended up pretty much redoing everything.
I agree with getting in a real spark, I feel so much safer now given the bodge job on rest of house.
They also built wardrobes into the eves (spell), but left the lightswitches on the wall so they were inside the wardrobe. So you had to open the wardrobe to out the light on!! Eight years they lived like that!
Loads of other stuff too, ended up pretty much redoing everything.
I agree with getting in a real spark, I feel so much safer now given the bodge job on rest of house.
I think the problem is that a lot of people just put up with crap because they just cant be bothered to sort it, so they live with it or bodge it up them selves because 'it can't be that hard'
I think if your a perfectionist then its probably run of the mill to find crap.
I know my house was reasonably bad and the electrics were bordering on dangerous. Luckily for me My best mates a spark and i have worked in the building trade long enough to be able to turn my hand or have a mate who will help me out. Little things like upstairs and downstairs ring mains on one breaker, or the armoured cable being fed around the house to the cooker, instead of pulling a 6mm through the celing, it almost looks like more work to cut the corner
My favourite was when i noticed a crack in the conservatory between house and conservatory. I then notice that all the water off of a 25m2 roof is draining onto the ground and imo has undermined the foundation meaning its falling away.
So the t
t who probably charged the previous owner around 12k i reckon has saved himself a max of £200 for proper drainage but esentially given the conservatory an early death certificate. I,ll rip it down and do a proper extension in a couple of years and will probably see a 600mm deep foundation for a full height wall, infact i,d lay money on it.
I think if your a perfectionist then its probably run of the mill to find crap.
I know my house was reasonably bad and the electrics were bordering on dangerous. Luckily for me My best mates a spark and i have worked in the building trade long enough to be able to turn my hand or have a mate who will help me out. Little things like upstairs and downstairs ring mains on one breaker, or the armoured cable being fed around the house to the cooker, instead of pulling a 6mm through the celing, it almost looks like more work to cut the corner
My favourite was when i noticed a crack in the conservatory between house and conservatory. I then notice that all the water off of a 25m2 roof is draining onto the ground and imo has undermined the foundation meaning its falling away.
So the t
t who probably charged the previous owner around 12k i reckon has saved himself a max of £200 for proper drainage but esentially given the conservatory an early death certificate. I,ll rip it down and do a proper extension in a couple of years and will probably see a 600mm deep foundation for a full height wall, infact i,d lay money on it.m3jappa said:
I think if your a perfectionist then its probably run of the mill to find crap.
Granted, the clueless DIYers will always bodge stuff in an effort to save money and for conveniences sake, though as we know that in itself is a false economy. But I find the contractor who cuts corners to save £200 on a £12k job just gives the whole industry a bad reputation. You shouldn't have to be a perfectionist to expect a job that you're paying for to be done safely and correctly and to the relevant standards. It seems to be a general lack of pride in their work (or poor training/education) which is becoming more and more endemic in the trade. Getting a good, honest tradesman is worth every penny spent.Solitude said:
This forum is full of nimrods who swear sparks are over-rated and unnessessary.
Not just sparks, its every trade in the industry, and then moan when they're working on a house thats a shower of st Re the OP, those kind of short cuts cant be compared to genuine builders.
Nuisance_Value said:
m3jappa said:
I think if your a perfectionist then its probably run of the mill to find crap.
Getting a good, honest tradesman is worth every penny spent.Agree with the above comment about the electrics from the above sparky. (am one also...)
Smiler. said:
Anyone else experience the same or am I just turning into Victor Meldrew (as the mrs suggests)?
Not at all chap. We are having very similar problems - a house built in the 50s, extended in the 90s, all done spectactularly well and to incredibly high spec for the times. Original owner passed away and between then and now there was only one owner, who "renovated" (IE, got shot of 60s decoration / bathrooms and brought it up to date). We are now doing our own renovations and extensions, and have had to send the builders home, as before we can go any further we find ourselves having to replumb and rewire the entire house... all from stuff done in the last decade. Anything that was done under the auspices of the original owner are impeccable, everything done since is a disaster.Leaking polypipes on "new" plumbing, both on hot/cold feeds and drainage.
Cables in the attic with ends stripped back, still sat there live.
"New" feeds from "new" consumer units drawn through cavities so roughly that the insulation has been stripped right off leaving long sections of bare copper.
Wall sockets spurred off light circuits.
New feeds spurred off old 50s ones - the 50's ones are ace and enclosed in conduit which has been hacksawed open and the cables are wound together then held by leccy tape, not a junction box in sight.
Sinks / Dishwasher drained into soakaway not hard drains, so soakaways (and thus the lawn) clogged with a decade of grease and washing powder.
Copper pipes cut off to joint to poly, with old pipes left in situ, still full of water. Old water.
"New" downlighters punched through ceilings with no fire covers, insulation piled on top of them.
"New" radiators plumbed off the hot water gravity feed.
Front and side doors with no threshold, using carpet strip instead, so nice rotted carpet.
Wrong flue and wrong cap on log burner
Inadequate gravity oil feed to both Aga and boiler, so low oil in the tank meant when the boiler kicked in, the Aga went out.
Fused feed to dishwasher held on to wall by.... the back of the dishwasher. Now nicely melted.
Macerator with no air valve... which'd be easily solved if it hadn't been boxed in, plastered and then tiled over with no access hatch.
PVCu windows / doors fitted by a now-defunct non-FENSA company, not ONE of them fitted properly or finished - so every single frame has warped. Thus dropped doors which won't seal, dropped windows which won't close without undue force, and the most gopping faux-wood and leading - the leading being particularly galling as you can see how the strips within the cavity have twisted: the frames are all warped so on one side of the pane the leading bends up, the opposite side it bends down. I even found a set of double doors, and one of the long window frames which were just propped up on the little plastic spacers - not one screw into the brick, nor foam/compo to fill the gap...
And.... and..... and......
Okay I'm bored of typing now, but you get the idea. It's astonishing what some tradesmen get away with, or how little attention some homeowners seem to pay to the work being done. We're gutted that we have eaten the vast majority of our "extension" budget in fixing the problems created in the last ten years. A word to the wise - a pile of certificates of workmanship are confirmation of nothing.
At easter i flooded the kitchen when lifting the floor tiles. Thanks to a pipe that should have been buried in the floor but was bodged under a tile instead. The missus went next door to borrow a mop off our elderly neighbour who mentioned that the guy we bought the house off was always hammering and drilling. Both houses had the wall between the living room and dining rooms removed at the same time. She'd got real builder's in to do, had engineering reports etc. She noticed that when mr bodger was doing ours that the wall was being held up with a brush shaft. It was done about 10 years ago and theres no sign of any cracks so i presume there's something holding the floor above it up properly 
Oh Boy...My thread has arrived
We moved into our house 4 years ago. the week we moved in the boiler packed up, because they had apparently damaged it clearing the loft. It was condemed and had to be replaced...
Couldn't ever get all the radiators to work after that, until I realised they had plumbed up half the house as a single pipe system and the extension as a double pipe system.
Bathroom rads still wouldn't work. Floor was completely tiled, leaving no way to get at anything. I had to take up the whole tiled floor to get at the pipes. They had plumbed in the radiators in the bathroom with garden hoses and jubilee clips in a manner that could never have actually circulated hot water.
There was a shower enclosure in the front bedroom (why FFS?) This had a 30 amp electric heater. I found that the 30amp feed was twisted into the circuit and just taped over. The outlet for the shower ran through the wall onto the garage roof and went to waste via the guttering.
Every single double glazing unit in the front of the house had a 10mm hole drilled in the surround, presumably to take the wire for outside Christmas lights.
We knew when we moved in that it needed a new kitchen, even so, they had fitted an eye level 600mm oven unit, of which 100mm over hung the kitchen window. The oven, which was a bog standard one needing only a 15amp supply, was wired into a 30 amp main with no isolation, and again just twisted in and taped over. The socket for the kettle, and half the under cabinet lighting (I use the phrase loosely) were all wired to the 30 amp main also. The under cabinet lights were twisted in and insulated with Sellotape.
Someone had evidently given up the idea of using those, Oh-SO-Difficult-to-Fit socket face screws and in at least 3 of the sockets in the house, had resorted to philips headed wood screws, obviuosly driven in with a drill/driver and split the socket.
One day, whilst making breakfast, the cooker hood fell off the wall on my head. It was vile. I am lucky I didn't catch something.
In the garage, all the electrics appeared to have been taken as a spur from the back of a socket in the living room. Fine, (?) but the spur then went on to serve 3 sockets in the garage and, from the back of the last one a further spur served two further sockets in the shed. I ripped it out on the spot before the house burnt down.
The coat cupboard light was an inspection lamp wired into the main lighting circuit.
One 30 amp socket in the living room was actually wired into the lighting circuit.
Whilst decorating the main bedroom, I noticed a lump in the plaster. I sanded it flat only to discover a bit of black pastic sticking out. I chipped it out and it turned out to be the wiring for the two sockets either side of the bed. They had taken the ring main from a single socket, which was still there under the plaster, twisted in two further lines and used these to feed the sockets. They then wrapped the twisted wire in sticky tape and plastered it into the wall out of sight.
you get the idea, I could go on ....
We moved into our house 4 years ago. the week we moved in the boiler packed up, because they had apparently damaged it clearing the loft. It was condemed and had to be replaced...
Couldn't ever get all the radiators to work after that, until I realised they had plumbed up half the house as a single pipe system and the extension as a double pipe system.
Bathroom rads still wouldn't work. Floor was completely tiled, leaving no way to get at anything. I had to take up the whole tiled floor to get at the pipes. They had plumbed in the radiators in the bathroom with garden hoses and jubilee clips in a manner that could never have actually circulated hot water.
There was a shower enclosure in the front bedroom (why FFS?) This had a 30 amp electric heater. I found that the 30amp feed was twisted into the circuit and just taped over. The outlet for the shower ran through the wall onto the garage roof and went to waste via the guttering.
Every single double glazing unit in the front of the house had a 10mm hole drilled in the surround, presumably to take the wire for outside Christmas lights.
We knew when we moved in that it needed a new kitchen, even so, they had fitted an eye level 600mm oven unit, of which 100mm over hung the kitchen window. The oven, which was a bog standard one needing only a 15amp supply, was wired into a 30 amp main with no isolation, and again just twisted in and taped over. The socket for the kettle, and half the under cabinet lighting (I use the phrase loosely) were all wired to the 30 amp main also. The under cabinet lights were twisted in and insulated with Sellotape.
Someone had evidently given up the idea of using those, Oh-SO-Difficult-to-Fit socket face screws and in at least 3 of the sockets in the house, had resorted to philips headed wood screws, obviuosly driven in with a drill/driver and split the socket.
One day, whilst making breakfast, the cooker hood fell off the wall on my head. It was vile. I am lucky I didn't catch something.
In the garage, all the electrics appeared to have been taken as a spur from the back of a socket in the living room. Fine, (?) but the spur then went on to serve 3 sockets in the garage and, from the back of the last one a further spur served two further sockets in the shed. I ripped it out on the spot before the house burnt down.
The coat cupboard light was an inspection lamp wired into the main lighting circuit.
One 30 amp socket in the living room was actually wired into the lighting circuit.
Whilst decorating the main bedroom, I noticed a lump in the plaster. I sanded it flat only to discover a bit of black pastic sticking out. I chipped it out and it turned out to be the wiring for the two sockets either side of the bed. They had taken the ring main from a single socket, which was still there under the plaster, twisted in two further lines and used these to feed the sockets. They then wrapped the twisted wire in sticky tape and plastered it into the wall out of sight.
you get the idea, I could go on ....
RedLeicester said:
Hell's Bells, sounds like our respective previous owners both used the same tradesmen!
As a 'general builder' and house owner, I feel your pain, and have some understanding of the situations that cause these issues. Often when building extensions on people's houses you come across all sorts of plumbing, electrical and building atrocities. Some of which can be attributed to poor tradesmen, and some to enthusiastic, but ignorant DIYing.With my experience, I can generally walk into a house and within a few minutes determine whether it's been maintained correctly and responsibly, or it's been bodged and cheaply repaired and consequently, a potential death-trap / moneypit.
I suppose my point is: It's not necessarily poor tradesmen who create these scenarios, it can be driven by penny pinching householders who simply aren't prepared to pay for the required investigating and correct remedial work to be carried out. Even as a quality, reputable tradesman; on coming across a bodge job you have 2 options: Continue to bodge it and be paid for your time, or submit a far higher quote to tidy the job to present regulation standards and more than likely have your quote thrown out the window...
I've been in a house recently where the owners have just moved in and are sorting the house to their requirements. Unfortunately for them, the house has been maintained on a shoestring for the last 10 years and now, everything they go near is basically f
ked and has to be completely reinstated. Bodged houses should be avoided like herpes, unless you're prepared to pay for a complete strip out of all services. It really can be that bad.Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff