Tree roots causing damage to neighbour's property

[Craig]

I received a note through the door last nighr from a neighbour which states that they have noticed some cracks in the concrete area in their garden that borders onto my property. They stated they had a surveyor to look at the damage and he has said it was possibly caused by tree roots from our property.

I have yet to have a look at the damage but from doing some Google searching it appears I am liable for any damage caused by my trees to neighbours property "unless not reasonably foreseeable". I am not clear what this means in practice?

I was thinking of asking them if they wish to seek compensation from me to send me a surveyors report that states this damage was caused by my trees - is this a reasonable next step?

thanks

[JustinP1]

Key word:

'possibly'

Until that word is definitely, then there is no point in going any further. Concrete can crack for a wide variety of reasons.

I would simply do things informally and ask what it is they want from sending the letter. Unless the cause can be attributed to you - a surveyor's report that does not say 'possibly' and comes up with hard evidence, then there is no point in going formal.

The other factor is that even if you *did* chop the tree down, that would not make it any better. In fact, the spaces where the roots are would contract and possibly make the problem worse.

[hornetrider]

A letter through the door? Are you not on speaking terms?

[Craig]

hornetrider said:

A letter through the door? Are you not on speaking terms?

yep - I was surprised too as they made no attempt to ring the doorbell

I haven't spoken to them before (they are down the end of the garden on one side)

this makes me think they want a record of the matter - i.e. in case they want to take it legal at some point

[hornetrider]

Does their letter suggest a course of action for yourself?

[Road2Ruin]

Do you think it might be the tree? If so I bet it probably is. The chances are that if the tree is a suspect then, if not now, but in the future it will become a problem. May be best to nip it in the bud now and remove the tree.

[Rags]

Road2Ruin said:

Do you think it might be the tree? If so I bet it probably is. The chances are that if the tree is a suspect then, if not now, but in the future it will become a problem. May be best to nip it in the bud now and remove the tree.

Sherlock has spoken!

[JustinP1]

Craig said:

hornetrider said:

A letter through the door? Are you not on speaking terms?

yep - I was surprised too as they made no attempt to ring the doorbell

I haven't spoken to them before (they are down the end of the garden on one side)

this makes me think they want a record of the matter - i.e. in case they want to take it legal at some point

There is another reason.

I once got a handwritten note of a similar ilk through my door. Hand posted. From the neighbour around the back as the crow flies but on a different close.

The note told me that they wanted me to cut my hedge (fair enough) and they said that they had spoken to 'someone' at the council and they were told that the hedge should be 6ft.

That is something which I knew clearly to be bks.

Sometimes when people want to 'big up' what they are asserting, and even tell a white lie in order to get what they want, they don't usually like doing that face to face, as people going round your house and purporting a lie would clearly be uncomfortable for most people, and they risk being publicly being 'found out' which is embarrassing.

Secondly, the 'letter' adds more 'importance' to the issue, firstly to make you do something as it is 'formal', and secondly so that in your fear you may overlook a 'white lie'.

I would suggest that the neighbours *may*:

1) Not had a surveyor's report at all, but have assumed the damage is from your tree.

2) Have has a surveyor's report, but it is inconclusive.


The reason I say this is simply logic. If I had a real surveyor's report in my hand which was clear, there is a simple way of resolving any issue. I would keep it in my hand, and knock on my neighbour's door, politely show them it and explain any issues.

You have to ask yourself, why would they *not* do that?

[Craig]

JustinP1 said:

Craig said:

hornetrider said:

A letter through the door? Are you not on speaking terms?

yep - I was surprised too as they made no attempt to ring the doorbell

I haven't spoken to them before (they are down the end of the garden on one side)

this makes me think they want a record of the matter - i.e. in case they want to take it legal at some point

There is another reason.

I once got a handwritten note of a similar ilk through my door. Hand posted. From the neighbour around the back as the crow flies but on a different close.

The note told me that they wanted me to cut my hedge (fair enough) and they said that they had spoken to 'someone' at the council and they were told that the hedge should be 6ft.

That is something which I knew clearly to be bks.

Sometimes when people want to 'big up' what they are asserting, and even tell a white lie in order to get what they want, they don't usually like doing that face to face, as people going round your house and purporting a lie would clearly be uncomfortable for most people, and they risk being publicly being 'found out' which is embarrassing.

Secondly, the 'letter' adds more 'importance' to the issue, firstly to make you do something as it is 'formal', and secondly so that in your fear you may overlook a 'white lie'.

I would suggest that the neighbours *may*:

1) Not had a surveyor's report at all, but have assumed the damage is from your tree.

2) Have has a surveyor's report, but it is inconclusive.


The reason I say this is simply logic. If I had a real surveyor's report in my hand which was clear, there is a simple way of resolving any issue. I would keep it in my hand, and knock on my neighbour's door, politely show them it and explain any issues.

You have to ask yourself, why would they *not* do that?

You could well be right. I think I will go and take a look for myself and see what report if any they have. In answer to hornerider's question - the letter just asks me to contact them to take the matter forward - it does not suggest any proposed resolution.

[Davel]

Ask for a copy of their letter and let your insurers have a copy.

Don't invite them to try and hold you liable.

If the tree is a problem, get a quote for its removal and, whilst unlikely, check with the council that there's no TPO on it or any other reason why it cannot be removed.

[JustinP1]

Davel said:

Ask for a copy of their letter and let your insurers have a copy.

Don't invite them to try and hold you liable.

If the tree is a problem, get a quote for its removal and, whilst unlikely, check with the council that there's no TPO on it or any other reason why it cannot be removed.

I would also suggest that *if* the issue has legs - which I possibly doubt, the first thing I would do is just hand it to my insurers and let them discuss the matter and pay out if necessary.

Taking a mature tree out costs more than pocket money.

Lastly, there is the factor that even if you *do* take the tree out, that will not be in instant fix either, in fact, it can make things worse as the roots die and contract.

As even that action could then be seen as making further damage, I would not want to be held responsible for that decision and let my insurer make the call as it will be them footing the bill either way.

[Spudler]

JustinP1 said:

I would suggest that the neighbours *may*:

1) Not had a surveyor's report at all, but have assumed the damage is from your tree.

This^^^

Probably had a builder/mate tell them .

[silverthorn2151]

JustinP1 said:

Lastly, there is the factor that even if you *do* take the tree out, that will not be in instant fix either, in fact, it can make things worse as the roots die and contract.

Actually what typically happens (assumming its some form of shrinkable sub-soil) is that you get heave, which is where the sub-soil expands as the tree is no longer removing moisture. That can impose far greater forces than shrinkage caused by roots. Root decay rarely causes significant problems.

It's reasonable to ask for a copy of the report and then decide what to do. If your tree is causing the problem then it's probably down to you but the action required is anything but certain. Much depends on scale and I would have thought that a little cracking is de-minimus.

[silverthorn2151]

JustinP1 said:

The note told me that they wanted me to cut my hedge (fair enough) and they said that they had spoken to 'someone' at the council and they were told that the hedge should be 6ft.

The matter may be passed but hedges are covered by the Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003 that sets out what the procedure is. The act only applies to hedges over 2m but does not stipulate hedges must be kept to 2m.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/38/part/8

[Craig]

thanks for all the comments

spoke to the council - there are no TPO in place

they advised going around to the neighbours and speaking to them to find out what basis they have for the claim, whether there is a report and if there are any recommendations from it. They suggested if necessary us contacting the surveyor ourselves to doublecheck

[JustinP1]

silverthorn2151 said:

JustinP1 said:

The note told me that they wanted me to cut my hedge (fair enough) and they said that they had spoken to 'someone' at the council and they were told that the hedge should be 6ft.

The matter may be passed but hedges are covered by the Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003 that sets out what the procedure is. The act only applies to hedges over 2m but does not stipulate hedges must be kept to 2m.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/38/part/8

Cheers for that, as I mentioned in the same post though, I did check the statute myself as I thought it was fishy. The hedge is about 15-20 metres from their house and short enough for me to cut on ladders so I knew there would be no right to light issue etc.

The crux was that they wanted to say that 'an authority' had said something like was said to the OP just for them to get what they wanted, which was 2 foot off the top.

The irony is that I was planning to do that anyway, so making up stories was just silly.

[Wings]

Whilst I totally agree with many of the comments made, if however I found myself in a similar position to the OP, then I would first approach an accredited tree surgeon-arborist for an inspection of the “troubled” tree roots, and his/her advice.

I have been reminded of several years ago, when due to extending a mortgage on my present home, the surveyor carrying out a survey on the home and garden, gave several warnings on certain trees in the garden, due mainly to the composition of the garden’s clay soil, warning against drastic and instant pruning, cutting back of growth of some trees.

Lastly, for the OP to make a claim against his home insurance may have significant
bearings on both obtaining home insurance in future years, and insurance premiums.

[Chrisgr31]

Whilst the insurance company will increase the premium for a claim the claim is not for subsidence to his own property! Equally the insurance company will do everything to stop paying out!

OP is yours the only tree around? Or are there other trees in the area? Even if they are some distance away? What sort of tree do you have in your garden?

If there are other trees in the area they could be responsible for the damage, and the liklihood of any damage from trees will depend on the tye of tree!

[Craig]

Chrisgr31 said:

Whilst the insurance company will increase the premium for a claim the claim is not for subsidence to his own property! Equally the insurance company will do everything to stop paying out!

OP is yours the only tree around? Or are there other trees in the area? Even if they are some distance away? What sort of tree do you have in your garden?

If there are other trees in the area they could be responsible for the damage, and the liklihood of any damage from trees will depend on the tye of tree!

I would say if the issue is tree related then it is likely to be one of mine. I am going to inspect the damage at the weekend and am taking a tree surgeon with me to get his opinion. I also plan to contact the neighbour beforehand to ask for the surveyor's details he used - if he is bluffing about this then he will likely refuse to give me the contact details.

[JustinP1]

Craig said:

Chrisgr31 said:

Whilst the insurance company will increase the premium for a claim the claim is not for subsidence to his own property! Equally the insurance company will do everything to stop paying out!

OP is yours the only tree around? Or are there other trees in the area? Even if they are some distance away? What sort of tree do you have in your garden?

If there are other trees in the area they could be responsible for the damage, and the liklihood of any damage from trees will depend on the tye of tree!

I would say if the issue is tree related then it is likely to be one of mine. I am going to inspect the damage at the weekend and am taking a tree surgeon with me to get his opinion. I also plan to contact the neighbour beforehand to ask for the surveyor's details he used - if he is bluffing about this then he will likely refuse to give me the contact details.

I would actually be careful in doing that. In fact, I would say that I wouldn't do that. Play the scenario out:

At the moment, you don't know whether the roots are the cause of any problems or not. It is not your responsibility to find out. Whilst going round there is not an admission of liability, it is a route whereby the neighbours have got leverage. And you *still* won't know what caused the damage to the concrete.

Look at the situation from a tree surgeon. He has no idea about good concrete, bad concrete, freeze-thaw etc etc like a surveyor would. Neither will he be able to say what has caused the damage.

However, what he *will* be able to do is say 'maybe' or even 'probably' and then charge you an arm and a leg to prune the trees. However, you *still* won't know if that was the cause of the problem, and you will *still* need to pay for the concrete damage, as by cutting the trees you are as near as damnit admitting that you have an 'expert' opinion rightly or wrongly that the damage has been caused by your trees.

If it were me, I would simply informally ask to see the surveyor report that they have. If they are cagey about that or can't say that if there is an issue, as always, you have house insurance, and if they want to come back with a proper written report, you will hand it to your insurers and let them handle it. There is a good chance that you will hear no more.