Future Jaguars

[Triple7]

Car Magazine has a front cover highlighting an article inside discussing the 15+ new models arriving from JLR. As far as new Jaguars go:

Facelift XF / Estate / 2.2D engine
V6 Powered XE 2 seater roadster
V8 Powered LWB 2+2 XK replacement / SWB 2 Seater XKR / Soft Top Convertible.
X-Type replacement 3 Series competing Saloon
Then 2014 XF goes all aluminiium.

All in all should be plenty for all budgets and tastes.

Edited by Triple7 on Tuesday 28th September 18:26

[steve-p]

I'm looking forward to seeing the XE, even if it is only a V6.

[dan tournay]

Here's the cover of Car magazine which shows what they reckon will be the X-Type replacement. If they make a 2 door coupé or convertible I'll buy one.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Magazine/

[ParanoidAndroid]

Jaguar are certainly on a roll at the moment. If it looks as good as that it will sell loads, especially a 2 door coupe version.

[Dimski]

dan tournay said:

Here's the cover of Car magazine which shows what they reckon will be the X-Type replacement. If they make a 2 door coupé or convertible I'll buy one.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Magazine/

I'd buy the x-type replacement if it looked like that, and had a decent engine. 3.0 V6 Diesel S from the XF should suffice! Ford 2.2 Diesel wont.

But what would they share the chassis with? No doubt the mondeo platform helped them keep costs down. What will they use?

[dan tournay]

Dimski said:

But what would they share the chassis with? No doubt the mondeo platform helped them keep costs down. What will they use?

As the Evoque Range Rover uses the Freelander platform which is also made in Halewood I would have thought it will be something along these lines. Just speculating but sounds sensible to me.

[Pickled Piper]

There are some stunning looking vehicles reported to be in the pipeline. Also, the current crop of vehicles are very appealing to the point where a confirmed German car man like me is on the brink of getting out his check book out for an XF.

One of the most debated issues in the Automotive sector is; exactly how will JLR fare without the support of an established big brother like Ford?. The supply and technology agreements for the current crop of cars were negotiated under Ford stewardship. I know from personal experience that the JLR buyers were able to use data from the Ford group to negotiate prices down. In the absence of this data and without the buying power that comes with being part of Ford it is inevitable that JLR will have to pay more for parts in the future and some of the premier league technology suppliers will just walk away. Tata can certainly bank roll JLR, but they just do not have the buying clout to negotiate world class deals. In simple terms JLR are just too small a player to be an appealing customer.

pp

[Simpo Two]

Pickled Piper said:

There are some stunning looking vehicles reported to be in the pipeline. Also, the current crop of vehicles are very appealing to the point where a confirmed German car man like me is on the brink of getting out his check book out for an XF.

I thought it looked a bit like a BMW.

Pickled Piper said:

One of the most debated issues in the Automotive sector is; exactly how will JLR fare without the support of an established big brother like Ford?. The supply and technology agreements for the current crop of cars were negotiated under Ford stewardship. I know from personal experience that the JLR buyers were able to use data from the Ford group to negotiate prices down. In the absence of this data and without the buying power that comes with being part of Ford it is inevitable that JLR will have to pay more for parts in the future and some of the premier league technology suppliers will just walk away. Tata can certainly bank roll JLR, but they just do not have the buying clout to negotiate world class deals. In simple terms JLR are just too small a player to be an appealing customer.

Then the price of Jaguars will go up until they can't compete, and go bankrupt, and somebody else will buy the name and use the badge, for better or worse.

[Pickled Piper]

Simpo,

You are wrong on the first account but I suspect you are correct on the second. The other possibility is that JLR take their vehicles upmarket and position them above BMW, Mercedes etc. Already happening with Range Rover.

Sadly it's quite possible that the current crop of JLR vehicles are the "best" they will ever produce.

pp

[diesel piston]

Jaguar C-X75 Electric/Jet
www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motor-shows/paris-mot...

[J-P]

Personally, I think that the proposed 3 series competitor looks awesome! I'd definitely buy one if it looked like that and had a decent engine! Don't think Jag will be able to position themselves above Merc and BMW. Not sure their dealer network is up to it and I don't think that they'll be able to alter the public's perception to that degree. Range Rover is different, they've been doing premium 4x4s for a long time and are known for having an unrivalled range of capabilities, also Porsche, Mercedes and BMW are seen as the upstarts in this segment; Range Rover is long established.

Current XF is a big disappointment when compared to the concept xf. It's those bug eyed headlights. However, I'm hopeful that the facelift next year addresses that issue, then I might get one!

Edited by J-P on Wednesday 6th October 17:40

[Simpo Two]

J-P said:

Don't think Jag will be able to position themselves above Merc and BMW.

Sad because for much of their history Jaguar was way above BMW.

[SeismicGuy]

I have always considered Jaguars in the same "classiness" league as Mercedes and more classy than BMW. I realize that the stigma of Jaguar reliability still lingers but owning a BMW is no stroll in the park either.

I have always seen a pretty decent number of Jags in the Los Angeles area and have noticed an especially high number of XF's on the streets here. I always wondered why Jaguar did not develop models to compete against the smaller BMW's (e.g., 3 Series and the Z3/Z4 models) and the "entry level" Porsche's (Boxster, Cayman).

Doug
2005 XKR

[J-P]

Simpo Two said:

J-P said:

Don't think Jag will be able to position themselves above Merc and BMW.

Sad because for much of their history Jaguar was way above BMW.

Couldn't agree more!

[J-P]

SeismicGuy said:

I have always considered Jaguars in the same "classiness" league as Mercedes and more classy than BMW. I realize that the stigma of Jaguar reliability still lingers but owning a BMW is no stroll in the park either.

I have always seen a pretty decent number of Jags in the Los Angeles area and have noticed an especially high number of XF's on the streets here. I always wondered why Jaguar did not develop models to compete against the smaller BMW's (e.g., 3 Series and the Z3/Z4 models) and the "entry level" Porsche's (Boxster, Cayman).

Doug
2005 XKR

I haven't - In the US service is generally very good but here in the UK, my experience of Jag dealers is that the service is awful. Not really interested in selling you a car and the service costs appear to be much higher than Merc and BMW for an actually worse service. Who wants that? New products are very nice but the dealer network needs to put more effort into their customer care. I still think it'll be tough to position Jag above BMW and Merc though even if the service is awesome, although I guess it depends on how far above they are going to be positioned...

[NormanD]

J-P said:

.... but here in the UK, my experience of Jag dealers is that the service is awful.

But I have found there are plenty of Independent Jaguar Specialists in the UK that will put themselves out and are very good

[a8hex]

I guess these things are largely a matter of perception.
My experience of BMW dealers was that they expected you to go in a buy a car, they had no interesting selling you one or getting hold of a demonstrator for a model that they didn't have in stock. The factory doesn't seem to help. The dealers seem to be given a schedule of what cars they can have when so even if you want to buy one, if its not in their schedule they aren't interested. If you can find a dealer that has the car you want scheduled in the time frame you need they then quote an interest rate that would make a credit card firm blush and get all upitty if you point out that is at least 4 times the rate that the bank quote. At this point MrsA8 (B8 to her friends) decided she really didn't want anything more to do with them and stormed out the dealer.

The only Jaguar dealer I've ever not had impecible service from had only switched from being a BMW dealer a couple of months before hand.

I'm sure there are many cases where the behaviour of the local dealers is the reverse. A sample size of 1 isn't much use.

Likewise my experience of owning a Merc and a Jag is that the Jag is a far more reliable car. YMMV.

As to whether one manufacture ranks above another, then I guess that depends on when you formed your opinions. As a child of the 60s BMW meant bubble cars and Jaguar meant E-Types. When I first had the option of a company car BMWs were predominantly sales boys toys where as the MD couldn't afford a Jag.

[SeismicGuy]

J-P said:

SeismicGuy said:

I have always considered Jaguars in the same "classiness" league as Mercedes and more classy than BMW. I realize that the stigma of Jaguar reliability still lingers but owning a BMW is no stroll in the park either.

I have always seen a pretty decent number of Jags in the Los Angeles area and have noticed an especially high number of XF's on the streets here. I always wondered why Jaguar did not develop models to compete against the smaller BMW's (e.g., 3 Series and the Z3/Z4 models) and the "entry level" Porsche's (Boxster, Cayman).

Doug
2005 XKR

I haven't - In the US service is generally very good but here in the UK, my experience of Jag dealers is that the service is awful. Not really interested in selling you a car and the service costs appear to be much higher than Merc and BMW for an actually worse service. Who wants that? New products are very nice but the dealer network needs to put more effort into their customer care. I still think it'll be tough to position Jag above BMW and Merc though even if the service is awesome, although I guess it depends on how far above they are going to be positioned...

I guess the perception depends on where, geographically, you are. When I was growing up in New York in the heyday of the American car (umpteen manufacturers and models that changed in appearance every year or so), ANY European car was considered somewhat exotic and in a higher class. Of those, the most impressive were the English saloon-types (Rolls-Royce, Bentley and Jaguar--all seen as being in more-or-less the same class). It was only in more recent years here (late-1970s onward) that the German cars were revered and now they have become ubiquitous. Still, the English vehicles always attract attention and are consistently considered classy.

Obviously, if you grew up in the UK, an English vehicle would not hold all that much interest and I suspect back in the 1960s or 1970s, it might be an American vehicle such as a Cadillac or Corvette that would turn heads.

Doug
2005 XKR
Los Angeles

[NormanD]

a8hex said:

I guess these things are largely a matter of perception.
My experience of BMW dealers was that they expected you to go in a buy a car,
they had no interesting selling you one or getting hold of.

Some years ago we wanted an estate and Vicky fancied a MB

Sorted what she wanted and asked for a discount
'Sir at MB we don't need to give discounts'

We now have a X-Type Estate 3Lt Manual with all the Bells and Whissles

[J-P]

NormanD said:

a8hex said:

I guess these things are largely a matter of perception.
My experience of BMW dealers was that they expected you to go in a buy a car,
they had no interesting selling you one or getting hold of.

Some years ago we wanted an estate and Vicky fancied a MB

Sorted what she wanted and asked for a discount
'Sir at MB we don't need to give discounts'

We now have a X-Type Estate 3Lt Manual with all the Bells and Whissles

You'd get a different response now, I reckon! But that kind of "sir, we don't want your business attitude" was precisely the kind of experience I had at Jaguar. It went something like...

Me - "I'm interested in an XFR or an XKR, but want to drive them first, could I arrange a test drive?"

Jag - "what car do you drive now?"

Me - "an M3"

Jag - "yes but please jump through these 15 hoops first"

Mw- "no that's fine"... walk away