Stepney Sentenced in Italy over "Spygate"

[thatone1967]

I honestly did not realise the guy could have gone to prison over this!

Still, I suppose, if you mess with Ferrari in Italy..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...

[Conian]

did he ever reveal 'where the bodies were buried' ?

[MiniMan64]

thatone1967 said:

I honestly did not realise the guy could have gone to prison over this!

Still, I suppose, if you mess with Ferrari in Italy..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...

I way I under stand it he won't actually serve a jail term, rather like a suspended sentence or something.

[Derek Smith]

So at least the real offender is punished.

Stepney gets fined £516 in a report I read. Can that be true? Makes the Mclaren fine a bit out of proportion.

The phrase 'plea bargain' is used. I think that means that the bodies will stay buried.

[The Wookie]

I heard a rumour that he may actually be reappearing in F1 at some point in the not too distant future

[10 Pence Short]

The Wookie said:

I heard a rumour that he may actually be reappearing in F1 at some point in the not too distant future

Eddie Jordan's stunt double?

[Derek Smith]

The Wookie said:

I heard a rumour that he may actually be reappearing in F1 at some point in the not too distant future

Hasn't Todt brought in a 'fit and proper' person caveat before they can work in F1? Can't think where I read it.

[The Wookie]

Derek Smith said:

Hasn't Todt brought in a 'fit and proper' person caveat before they can work in F1? Can't think where I read it.

Well even if there weren't I'd imagine it'd be fairly easy to pin a ban on him anyway for 'bringing the sport into disrepute' or some such. The real questions are what political game is at stake, and would the legislation stand up against a high court challenge?

[10 Pence Short]

The Wookie said:

Derek Smith said:

Hasn't Todt brought in a 'fit and proper' person caveat before they can work in F1? Can't think where I read it.

Well even if there weren't I'd imagine it'd be fairly easy to pin a ban on him anyway for 'bringing the sport into disrepute' or some such. The real questions are what political game is at stake, and would the legislation stand up against a high court challenge?

The FIA weren't able to ban Briatore or Pat Symonds. I'd be surprised if any ban on the other two would stack up if properly challenged.

You still get the feeling McLaren were well and truly screwed over by the whole situation, though.

[Fire99]

Personally I think they all sit in a large room at F1 Circus House and decide what the next 'gripping' drama will be. You'll see the likes of Stepney, Flav, Whitmarsh, Horner, Todt, Mosley etc with Legard and his 3 year old script-writer all working on the next exciting event to keep the F1 fans entertained.

[Derek Smith]

10 Pence Short said:

The Wookie said:

Derek Smith said:

Hasn't Todt brought in a 'fit and proper' person caveat before they can work in F1? Can't think where I read it.

Well even if there weren't I'd imagine it'd be fairly easy to pin a ban on him anyway for 'bringing the sport into disrepute' or some such. The real questions are what political game is at stake, and would the legislation stand up against a high court challenge?

The FIA weren't able to ban Briatore or Pat Symonds. I'd be surprised if any ban on the other two would stack up if properly challenged.

You still get the feeling McLaren were well and truly screwed over by the whole situation, though.

Or Coughlan come to that.

I'm not so sure we have been told everything about the outcome of Stepneygate.

There was a bit on the FIA's website about £20,000 or dollars of euros from the fine being given to some karting event then nothing. The interest - in those days - for a week paid for that.

There was that apology by Mosley and the absolutely hilarious photo opportunity on the steps of McLaren HQ, not even inside, with the McL logo resplendent, Mossy on a lower step, Dennis, rampant, on a higher. They were shaking hands with some sort of 'acceptance' press release from Mosley that he'd had an epiphany and everything was lovely again.

I expected some sort of follow-up from that but zilch.

And Stepney pleads guilty in an Italian court, gets a 45 in a 30mph level fine, although no points, and then says he didn’t do it.

Everything is, of course, above board and open. There have been, quite obviously given the morals of all concerned, no illicit deals. There is no conspiracy.

To suggest this stinks is an insult to stinks.

[The Wookie]

To be honest, I think it's more dealings going on in back rooms to save face in an embarrassing situation rather than any outright conspiracy.

I think also the FIA knows that in certain situations they're fairly toothless when it comes to it, and a few teams hold them to ransom over it. Particularly the ones with enough financial means to back it all the way to the top, and a good enough brand to survive the negative press it would generate...

Perhaps Ron felt hard done by the decisions made in the back room, didn't fancy his chances on the legal route so went straight for Moseley's gullet with the threat of a few more 'revelations'.

Edited by The Wookie on Thursday 30th September 10:14

[andyps]

I am pretty sure that Todt had Stepney and Coughlan in mind, not just Briatore when the idea of licensed team members was introduced, the way it is worded indicates that a team principal is responsible for absolutely every member of staff employed by their organisation which would make it impossible for an F1 team to even employ Stepney to be a factory cleaner.

As for the bodies, the publishers all became afraid of being buried themselves if they did go ahead with Red Mist so unfortunately we will have to wait for Ron Dennis to write his memoires to learn more.

It is interesting to consider what actually happened over the McLaren fine. More recent actions taken against the FIA outside of the closed circle of the FIA kangaroo courts have highlighted that actions taken can be challenged and beaten. It seems highly likely that a quiet word was had between McLaren and the powers that be at the FIA to point this out, and it could be that rather than face the embarrassment of losing such a high profile case the FIA returned the cheque. But I really don't know. Presumably the FIA should reveal the truth as $100 million would be likely to show up.

[flemke]

FIA website said:

The World Motor Sport Council will submit a proposal to the General Assembly that a specific licence is created for a restricted list of members of staff of the competitors entered in the FIA World Championships. The aim is to introduce a system that ensures they are subject to the criteria set out in a new FIA Code of Good Standing. This would apply to a minimum of six people per competitor, including the Team Principal, Sporting Director, Team Manager, Technical Director and two race engineers (or equivalent).

A new mechanism will be introduced to control access to areas under the jurisdiction of the FIA and no pass of any kind will be issued to any person or body who is not in good standing for the purposes of the FIA International Sporting Code. Entrants will also become responsible for their staff, meaning any person connected directly or indirectly with the entrant in connection with their participation in an event.

For their recent team orders offence, Ferrari had no real chance of getting a civil court to overturn a harsher penalty from the WMSC. Their threat to appeal was bluster. Why the WMSC decided not to enforce its own rules is a matter for speculation, but it would not have been that they were afraid of a rescindment by an outside body. The issue of team orders was self-contained and was not part of a wider agenda. Everyone concerned wanted Ferrari to continue in F1.

The Mosley/McLaren affair was quite different. Mosley's purpose was to inflict maximum damage on McLaren, and especially on Ron Dennis. The spying allegations were not the issue, they were merely the pretext that Mosley seized to pursue his agenda.
There actually was no basis for the WMSC to "fine" McLaren $100m. McLaren could have told them to foxtrot oscar and would have owed no money. In that case, however, the team would have been expelled.
After McLaren had agreed to pay the fine, the FIA still had the ability to punish McLaren by keeping them out of the '08 season, by claiming that the '08 car had been influenced by the dossier data. McLaren could have challenged that in civil court, but not in time to retrieve their '08 season. Sponsors would have withheld funds owing to failure to perform, and the team would probably have had to close its doors. A subsequent McLaren victory in civil court would have been Pyrrhic. This was always Mosley's nuclear option, and why the bad guys had to win.

[jamiebae]

The Wookie said:

I heard a rumour that he may actually be reappearing in F1 at some point in the not too distant future

Was he involved with Stefan GP or was that Mike Coughlin?

[ralphrj]

andyps said:

It is interesting to consider what actually happened over the McLaren fine. More recent actions taken against the FIA outside of the closed circle of the FIA kangaroo courts have highlighted that actions taken can be challenged and beaten. It seems highly likely that a quiet word was had between McLaren and the powers that be at the FIA to point this out, and it could be that rather than face the embarrassment of losing such a high profile case the FIA returned the cheque. But I really don't know. Presumably the FIA should reveal the truth as $100 million would be likely to show up.

McLaren only paid $60m to the FIA. The remaining $40m was the prize money McLaren would have received for the 2007 season which, as a result of their exclusion, was paid to the other teams.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63627


The $60m was used to create the Motor Sport Safety Development Fund.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases...


The fund invites applications for grants. Here is the press release for last year.

http://www.fiainstitute.com/news/Pages/article-59....

[Derek Smith]

ralphrj said:

McLaren only paid $60m to the FIA. The remaining $40m was the prize money McLaren would have received for the 2007 season which, as a result of their exclusion, was paid to the other teams.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63627


The $60m was used to create the Motor Sport Safety Development Fund.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases...


The fund invites applications for grants. Here is the press release for last year.

http://www.fiainstitute.com/news/Pages/article-59....

A whole 5m Euros.

Does the FIA publish its budget? Do accountants go through the books?

My experience is that thee must be checks if only to ensure that things are not totally corrupt when it comes to money. The FIA might well have been the exception to the rule in the days of Mosley. And $60m is nothing I suppose. The FIA must be rolling in money as it must have control over that great money spinner, the TV and advertising rights. They must be worth $billions.

[flemke]

ralphrj said:

andyps said:

It is interesting to consider what actually happened over the McLaren fine. More recent actions taken against the FIA outside of the closed circle of the FIA kangaroo courts have highlighted that actions taken can be challenged and beaten. It seems highly likely that a quiet word was had between McLaren and the powers that be at the FIA to point this out, and it could be that rather than face the embarrassment of losing such a high profile case the FIA returned the cheque. But I really don't know. Presumably the FIA should reveal the truth as $100 million would be likely to show up.

McLaren only paid $60m to the FIA. The remaining $40m was the prize money McLaren would have received for the 2007 season which, as a result of their exclusion, was paid to the other teams.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63627


The $60m was used to create the Motor Sport Safety Development Fund.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases...


The fund invites applications for grants. Here is the press release for last year.

http://www.fiainstitute.com/news/Pages/article-59....

These sorts of funds are often used by their administrators to ingratiate themselves with their constituencies:

FIA Safety Grant press release said:

Projects cover all continents, with recipients including national sporting authorities in Ireland, Finland, Spain, Poland, Russia, Brazil, Nicaragua, Uruguay, Syria, Tanzania, Namibia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

That's 15 votes for FIA President from less than a fifth of McLaren's money.

[flemke]

Derek Smith said:

And $60m is nothing I suppose. The FIA must be rolling in money as it must have control over that great money spinner, the TV and advertising rights. They must be worth $billions.

Yeah, exactly.
Thank goodness the FIA's hard-ass negotiators wouldn't let Bernie sweet-talk them into giving away the crown jewels.

[GTP rpm]

flemke said:

FIA website said:

The World Motor Sport Council will submit a proposal to the General Assembly that a specific licence is created for a restricted list of members of staff of the competitors entered in the FIA World Championships. The aim is to introduce a system that ensures they are subject to the criteria set out in a new FIA Code of Good Standing. This would apply to a minimum of six people per competitor, including the Team Principal, Sporting Director, Team Manager, Technical Director and two race engineers (or equivalent).

A new mechanism will be introduced to control access to areas under the jurisdiction of the FIA and no pass of any kind will be issued to any person or body who is not in good standing for the purposes of the FIA International Sporting Code. Entrants will also become responsible for their staff, meaning any person connected directly or indirectly with the entrant in connection with their participation in an event.

For their recent team orders offence, Ferrari had no real chance of getting a civil court to overturn a harsher penalty from the WMSC. Their threat to appeal was bluster. Why the WMSC decided not to enforce its own rules is a matter for speculation, but it would not have been that they were afraid of a rescindment by an outside body. The issue of team orders was self-contained and was not part of a wider agenda. Everyone concerned wanted Ferrari to continue in F1.

The Mosley/McLaren affair was quite different. Mosley's purpose was to inflict maximum damage on McLaren, and especially on Ron Dennis. The spying allegations were not the issue, they were merely the pretext that Mosley seized to pursue his agenda.
There actually was no basis for the WMSC to "fine" McLaren $100m. McLaren could have told them to foxtrot oscar and would have owed no money. In that case, however, the team would have been expelled.
After McLaren had agreed to pay the fine, the FIA still had the ability to punish McLaren by keeping them out of the '08 season, by claiming that the '08 car had been influenced by the dossier data. McLaren could have challenged that in civil court, but not in time to retrieve their '08 season. Sponsors would have withheld funds owing to failure to perform, and the team would probably have had to close its doors. A subsequent McLaren victory in civil court would have been Pyrrhic. This was always Mosley's nuclear option, and why the bad guys had to win.

flemke in McLaren defense shocker!

Just kidding, we all know McLaren got given the short straw...but what we don't know, is the politics. Like with the whole going to war, with our government and Amercia - is it really worth getting wound up about? We're not going to be able to do anything about it