Bi-Xenon conversion
Discussion
Is there a MOT legal conversion out there for our cars?
If any of you have researched this subject then you'll know all the plug in and throw away the halogen bulbs do not work and are all illegal.
Why, because the optics required for xenon lights are different.
All I can find that would fit, work and be legal are crazy money:
http://www.myhellalights.com/index.php/default/aux...
I think coaches run with these.
Any ideas guys?
No, my MOT guy is not happy if the beam pattern is all over the place.
Phil
420 SEAC
If any of you have researched this subject then you'll know all the plug in and throw away the halogen bulbs do not work and are all illegal.
Why, because the optics required for xenon lights are different.
All I can find that would fit, work and be legal are crazy money:
http://www.myhellalights.com/index.php/default/aux...
I think coaches run with these.
Any ideas guys?
No, my MOT guy is not happy if the beam pattern is all over the place.
Phil
420 SEAC
there is nothing in the mot to fail cars with HID fitted. as long as the beam pattern is as it should be and the light emitted is white or yellow, theres no fail 
the legal side of it as far as i know is that you need headlights that are marked for HID bulbs, self levelling headlights and a head light washer system too. unless all that has changed since i last looked in to it
the legal side of it as far as i know is that you need headlights that are marked for HID bulbs, self levelling headlights and a head light washer system too. unless all that has changed since i last looked in to it
I think the DVLA/VOSA or whoever it is line goes something like : "It is the opinion of this department that retrofitting of HIDs is a very naughty thing (ie illegal)" for vague reasons, most of which contradict the 'Be seen, be safe' line that has been rammed down our necks since the year dot. Just an opinion, then, no suggestion of it being strictly unlawful.
I think most of us (and the HID industry) are waiting for a test case to turn up in Court to decide the issue once and for all - VOSA would, of course, be the 'expert witness' in any such case
.
I have twin HIDs (of the bi-xenon variety) on my bike and it has passed MOTs with them. As far as the optics are concerned, I think the problem is that the HIDs emit so much light that bits of the reflector that were previously ineffective, now contribute to the beam-spread. Not all reflector/lens designs are so poor that this is an issue, though it may be on the old round 7" units (or indeed the rectangular ones) on most Wedges... someone needs to be the willing victim Phil, may as well be you
Think I paid £100 for the two installations on my bike from Convert2Xenon.com, if I remember correctly. The bike does have electric (though not self-) levelling so I can adjust on the move if things look a bit wonky. VERY occasionally I have been flashed by oncoming cars (as discussed on a Biker Banter thread some time ago) but I suspect that's more down to some people's eyes (mine included) being a bit sensitive to the colour temperature or whatever.
As for the TVR, I fitted new reflectors and standard H4 halogen bulbs, then made a new wiring sub-loom that takes the battery current via the shortest physical route to the lamps, in heavy-gauge cable... the improvement was remarkable.
I think most of us (and the HID industry) are waiting for a test case to turn up in Court to decide the issue once and for all - VOSA would, of course, be the 'expert witness' in any such case
.I have twin HIDs (of the bi-xenon variety) on my bike and it has passed MOTs with them. As far as the optics are concerned, I think the problem is that the HIDs emit so much light that bits of the reflector that were previously ineffective, now contribute to the beam-spread. Not all reflector/lens designs are so poor that this is an issue, though it may be on the old round 7" units (or indeed the rectangular ones) on most Wedges... someone needs to be the willing victim Phil, may as well be you
Think I paid £100 for the two installations on my bike from Convert2Xenon.com, if I remember correctly. The bike does have electric (though not self-) levelling so I can adjust on the move if things look a bit wonky. VERY occasionally I have been flashed by oncoming cars (as discussed on a Biker Banter thread some time ago) but I suspect that's more down to some people's eyes (mine included) being a bit sensitive to the colour temperature or whatever.
As for the TVR, I fitted new reflectors and standard H4 halogen bulbs, then made a new wiring sub-loom that takes the battery current via the shortest physical route to the lamps, in heavy-gauge cable... the improvement was remarkable.
Hi Guys,
Well, I'd like to take things one step further than remarkable.
After reading yours or someone else's write-up regarding rewiring the power feed to the headlights I was going to go that route anyway but thought I'd see what else was out there.
I have written to Hella to ask them if they produce an after market round bi-xenon lamp in the same size as the wedge but AFAIK that's going to be a negative.
Let's see what pans out.
Phil
420 SEAC
Well, I'd like to take things one step further than remarkable.
After reading yours or someone else's write-up regarding rewiring the power feed to the headlights I was going to go that route anyway but thought I'd see what else was out there.
I have written to Hella to ask them if they produce an after market round bi-xenon lamp in the same size as the wedge but AFAIK that's going to be a negative.
Let's see what pans out.
Phil
420 SEAC
Transmitter Man said:
Hi Guys,
Well, I'd like to take things one step further than remarkable.
After reading yours or someone else's write-up regarding rewiring the power feed to the headlights I was going to go that route anyway but thought I'd see what else was out there.
I have written to Hella to ask them if they produce an after market round bi-xenon lamp in the same size as the wedge but AFAIK that's going to be a negative.
Let's see what pans out.
Phil
420 SEAC
Well if you find out.......be sure to let us know, as I for one would be interested!Well, I'd like to take things one step further than remarkable.
After reading yours or someone else's write-up regarding rewiring the power feed to the headlights I was going to go that route anyway but thought I'd see what else was out there.
I have written to Hella to ask them if they produce an after market round bi-xenon lamp in the same size as the wedge but AFAIK that's going to be a negative.
Let's see what pans out.
Phil
420 SEAC
Chedder
I think you will find the law says you are not allowed to run 100W plus bulbs in a car for road use even in driving lamps.
Phill are you going to have just one 90mm lamp in the pod as i think it would look a little off, i remember a few years ago seeing a pic of some one wedge with the twin hella 90mm dip full beam setup and it looked very sexy.
What about the hid bulb dip full beam upgrade kit as you can get these for under 150 quid. Thats the way i want to go.
What price is the buld beam module cost?
I was told yesteday from a cars sailsman that cars fitted with hid lights have to have a head ligh washers but my lass has an 09 with hid lighs and no head light washers so it must have been some thing within the last 12 to 18 months, some silly law change, any way i dont think my SEAC will fail an mot on the lights.
Do you know of the best place to get new square head lights from... any one....
Any how... how is the SEAC coming along, got the chassis galv yet, hows the new suspention getting on, have got it as a rolling chassis yet.
Cheers
Cambelt
Phill are you going to have just one 90mm lamp in the pod as i think it would look a little off, i remember a few years ago seeing a pic of some one wedge with the twin hella 90mm dip full beam setup and it looked very sexy.
What about the hid bulb dip full beam upgrade kit as you can get these for under 150 quid. Thats the way i want to go.
What price is the buld beam module cost?
I was told yesteday from a cars sailsman that cars fitted with hid lights have to have a head ligh washers but my lass has an 09 with hid lighs and no head light washers so it must have been some thing within the last 12 to 18 months, some silly law change, any way i dont think my SEAC will fail an mot on the lights.
Do you know of the best place to get new square head lights from... any one....
Any how... how is the SEAC coming along, got the chassis galv yet, hows the new suspention getting on, have got it as a rolling chassis yet.
Cheers
Cambelt
Phil, not sure if I understand your comment re. 'same size as the wedge lamps'... the bi-xenons I fitted are direct replacements for H4-type halogens, they drop straight in.
Campbell: dunno where you get 100W from; my HIDs are 35W, less power than a 60W halogen but more light output.
Adam: I ran the sub-loom from the battery: although the HIDs draw less current when running than a 60W halogen they take more of a surge when igniting; I'd rather use the current-dumping of the battery than overload the alternator.
There are two downsides to the bi-xenons... for the uninitiated, unlike a normal 55/60W dip/main halogen, the bi-xenons only have one filament. Dip to main switching is achieved by having an electrically-operated 'collar' around that filament that directs the light towards the appropriate part of the reflector, ie it is pulled back on main beam to change the area of the reflector used. This means that you can't have dip and main at the same time (as you can on a halogen by pulling the 'flash' switch to temporarily give you both beams) and of course, if the filament goes pop you get nothing, whereas on a halogen you can always switch to the other beam.
The other drawback is that replacement bulbs cost £30 rather than £2.50... although they are claimed to last 10 times as long betweeen failures.
Campbell: dunno where you get 100W from; my HIDs are 35W, less power than a 60W halogen but more light output.
Adam: I ran the sub-loom from the battery: although the HIDs draw less current when running than a 60W halogen they take more of a surge when igniting; I'd rather use the current-dumping of the battery than overload the alternator.
There are two downsides to the bi-xenons... for the uninitiated, unlike a normal 55/60W dip/main halogen, the bi-xenons only have one filament. Dip to main switching is achieved by having an electrically-operated 'collar' around that filament that directs the light towards the appropriate part of the reflector, ie it is pulled back on main beam to change the area of the reflector used. This means that you can't have dip and main at the same time (as you can on a halogen by pulling the 'flash' switch to temporarily give you both beams) and of course, if the filament goes pop you get nothing, whereas on a halogen you can always switch to the other beam.
The other drawback is that replacement bulbs cost £30 rather than £2.50... although they are claimed to last 10 times as long betweeen failures.
Cambelt,
Not sure you can fit twin 90mm Hella bi-xenon modules in a single wedge pod, unless you know otherwise however, they offer both 50 & I think 60mm units. Here's their 50mm unit.
AP parts have only trickled in over the past month plus there's both design and machining work to be done and to make sure everything bolts together correctly, bells and caliper brackets and remember two lots of calipers at the rear, halfshaft length changing, tie bars etc etc. Wheel manufacturer is a little reluctant to let his engineering drawings out but I told him I need to make sure our custom brake system all fits inside without any interference.
Ian,
Have you read this guys very interesting site article. Please note no shopping cart as he's not trying to sell us something just educate us:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/...
I'm trying to do work methodically on my car even if sometimes parts cost four time as much as other routes.
Phil
420 SEAC
Not sure you can fit twin 90mm Hella bi-xenon modules in a single wedge pod, unless you know otherwise however, they offer both 50 & I think 60mm units. Here's their 50mm unit.
AP parts have only trickled in over the past month plus there's both design and machining work to be done and to make sure everything bolts together correctly, bells and caliper brackets and remember two lots of calipers at the rear, halfshaft length changing, tie bars etc etc. Wheel manufacturer is a little reluctant to let his engineering drawings out but I told him I need to make sure our custom brake system all fits inside without any interference.
Ian,
Have you read this guys very interesting site article. Please note no shopping cart as he's not trying to sell us something just educate us:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/...
I'm trying to do work methodically on my car even if sometimes parts cost four time as much as other routes.
Phil
420 SEAC
Transmitter Man said:
Ian,
Have you read this guys very interesting site article. Please note no shopping cart as he's not trying to sell us something just educate us:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/...
Yeah, seen it before... whenever I feel like being talked down to, I know where to go Have you read this guys very interesting site article. Please note no shopping cart as he's not trying to sell us something just educate us:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/...
He must be selling SOMETHING somewhere though, why else is it Daniel Stern LIGHTING'...
Cambelt,
Not sure you can fit twin 90mm Hella bi-xenon modules in a single wedge pod, unless you know otherwise however, they offer both 50 & I think 60mm units. Here's their 50mm unit.
AP parts have only trickled in over the past month plus there's both design and machining work to be done and to make sure everything bolts together correctly, bells and caliper brackets and remember two lots of calipers at the rear, halfshaft length changing, tie bars etc etc. Wheel manufacturer is a little reluctant to let his engineering drawings out but I told him I need to make sure our custom brake system all fits inside without any interference.
Ian,
Have you read this guys very interesting site article. Please note no shopping cart as he's not trying to sell us something just educate us:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/...
I'm trying to do work methodically on my car even if sometimes parts cost four time as much as other routes.
Phil
420 SEAC
Not sure you can fit twin 90mm Hella bi-xenon modules in a single wedge pod, unless you know otherwise however, they offer both 50 & I think 60mm units. Here's their 50mm unit.
AP parts have only trickled in over the past month plus there's both design and machining work to be done and to make sure everything bolts together correctly, bells and caliper brackets and remember two lots of calipers at the rear, halfshaft length changing, tie bars etc etc. Wheel manufacturer is a little reluctant to let his engineering drawings out but I told him I need to make sure our custom brake system all fits inside without any interference.
Ian,
Have you read this guys very interesting site article. Please note no shopping cart as he's not trying to sell us something just educate us:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/...
I'm trying to do work methodically on my car even if sometimes parts cost four time as much as other routes.
Phil
420 SEAC
I've fitted twin hella 90mm lights into my pods in the 400SE (this was the H9 bulb type not HID)was a right pain though, and took about 2 days work, also some how someone had set them up as Euro spec. (left had drive) so I need to take them out again, and adjust and re-fit. only found out at MOT, and hence I've still not driven them at night.
Also I'm sure 2 other people have had them done also. I know for sure of one other.
Also I'm sure 2 other people have had them done also. I know for sure of one other.
Leigh,
Photo please and let's see what it looks like.
Cambelt,
Are you talking about a two lamps side by side in a single wedge pod?
2 x 90mm = 180mm.
but that's not the whole story.
Click on the bottom pdf file and you'll see that at the widest part of this lamps mounting case each measures 125mm.
So, 2 x 125mm = 250mm and me don't think that fits in the pod.
Can you remember who's car it was so we can track them or the car down, reg, colour, model, name of owners, PH username?
Let's pin this down as it looks like the only option to get it right and look good at the same time.
BTW Hella UK came back to me today to confirm that they do not offer a 5.75 or 7" round bi-xenon headlight unit.
Phil
420 SEAC
Photo please and let's see what it looks like.
Cambelt,
Are you talking about a two lamps side by side in a single wedge pod?
2 x 90mm = 180mm.
but that's not the whole story.
Click on the bottom pdf file and you'll see that at the widest part of this lamps mounting case each measures 125mm.
So, 2 x 125mm = 250mm and me don't think that fits in the pod.
Can you remember who's car it was so we can track them or the car down, reg, colour, model, name of owners, PH username?
Let's pin this down as it looks like the only option to get it right and look good at the same time.
BTW Hella UK came back to me today to confirm that they do not offer a 5.75 or 7" round bi-xenon headlight unit.
Phil
420 SEAC
Transmitter Man said:
Leigh,
Cambelt,
Are you talking about a two lamps side by side in a single wedge pod?
2 x 90mm = 180mm.
but that's not the whole story.
Click on the bottom pdf file and you'll see that at the widest part of this lamps mounting case each measures 125mm.
So, 2 x 125mm = 250mm and me don't think that fits in the pod.
420 SEAC
I did not use there 125mm brackets, I made my own brackets to house the 2 units hence it being a pain.Cambelt,
Are you talking about a two lamps side by side in a single wedge pod?
2 x 90mm = 180mm.
but that's not the whole story.
Click on the bottom pdf file and you'll see that at the widest part of this lamps mounting case each measures 125mm.
So, 2 x 125mm = 250mm and me don't think that fits in the pod.
420 SEAC
Will sort out pic's tomorrow, or do a search I posted a thread with pic's
Will re-post pic's tomorrow, see bumped thread of someone else's who had them done.
http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by TVRleigh_BBWR on Monday 4th October 22:43
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