Morris Ital rear axles
Discussion
I understand early 7’s used Morris marina / Ital rear axles (3.75” PCD), can anyone tell me from which model or the ratio ?
I’ve also read the Ital Van uses a late MGB axles (4.5” PCD)…..but thats something else....
Thanks in advance
Matt
I’ve also read the Ital Van uses a late MGB axles (4.5” PCD)…..but thats something else....
Thanks in advance
Matt
Edited by goodwoodweirdo on Monday 4th October 15:11
Either Standard Marina or Ital and their light commercial variants. Or Triumph Spitfire or Dolomite (but not the Dolly Sprint). Minefield !
The heavy commercial had a different PCD as you say.
Ratios vary a lot. From 3.27 (which is what I have in the Gixxerham, it is from a Triumph GT6 with overdrive IIRC) through 3.63 (4 speed), 3.89 (5 speed) to 4.11 (which is what the grads use).
Think they go higher still, the light vans had 4.55. Nippy, but runs out of puff early !!
Rimmer Bros have a lot of info if you need.
The heavy commercial had a different PCD as you say.
Ratios vary a lot. From 3.27 (which is what I have in the Gixxerham, it is from a Triumph GT6 with overdrive IIRC) through 3.63 (4 speed), 3.89 (5 speed) to 4.11 (which is what the grads use).
Think they go higher still, the light vans had 4.55. Nippy, but runs out of puff early !!
Rimmer Bros have a lot of info if you need.
You sure Noger? I know you own a Herald (even if its not called that any more:-0)
The GT6/Spitfire/Herald/Vitesse uses a transverse spring and fully independent rear setup. See http://www.kdtriumph.com/martini-gt6-rs/uploaded_i...
Are the actual diffs the same as the Marina item?
I thought Marina/Ital came from Moggy Minor parts heritage, and GT6/Spitfire/Herald/Vitesse all from Herald a la Standard Truimph.
The GT6/Spitfire/Herald/Vitesse uses a transverse spring and fully independent rear setup. See http://www.kdtriumph.com/martini-gt6-rs/uploaded_i...
Are the actual diffs the same as the Marina item?
I thought Marina/Ital came from Moggy Minor parts heritage, and GT6/Spitfire/Herald/Vitesse all from Herald a la Standard Truimph.
My Seven has the Standard 10 axle with a an LSD. The Marina diff is based on the Standard 10 diff and has "Stanpart"cast in the same as the Standard 10.
I use the LSD and swap between Marina housings and the Standard 10 to get different ratios. The Marinia has wider bearings and thicker halfshafts.
They are very similar but not the same. Standard 10 later became Herald Spitfire etc all the same.
Rae
I use the LSD and swap between Marina housings and the Standard 10 to get different ratios. The Marinia has wider bearings and thicker halfshafts.
They are very similar but not the same. Standard 10 later became Herald Spitfire etc all the same.
Rae
Ah no, have got it the other way round, the non-overdrive GT6 is 3.27.
That is the CWP I got from Rimmer Bros. And it fits the Caterham diff (which I think were all 1600 Itals that Caterham used - although you did tell me bits were from an Ital Van on "ours" EFA).
There are other cars with 3.27, like auto Dolomite 1850s, but they don't have spares as readily available !
That was just ratios I was talking about. Whether you can take a MkIV spitfire diff and stick it straight into an LA Caterham.....I have no idea. But the diffs are similar enough for the CWPs to be compatible.
It is the TR4/5s and Dolly Sprints that use the other type. 3.45 ratio one.
That is the CWP I got from Rimmer Bros. And it fits the Caterham diff (which I think were all 1600 Itals that Caterham used - although you did tell me bits were from an Ital Van on "ours" EFA).
There are other cars with 3.27, like auto Dolomite 1850s, but they don't have spares as readily available !
That was just ratios I was talking about. Whether you can take a MkIV spitfire diff and stick it straight into an LA Caterham.....I have no idea. But the diffs are similar enough for the CWPs to be compatible.
It is the TR4/5s and Dolly Sprints that use the other type. 3.45 ratio one.
Edited by Noger on Tuesday 5th October 15:37
I can confirm what noger said, CW&P and diff internals are interchangeable across Itals, non sprint dollies, spits and GT 6's. There is minor differences due to bearing sizes, this is due to age brakes and not models so sometimes it's a bit hit and miss to get the right bearings for a caterham as you don't know the age of the axle. Diff casings externally can be different dependant on source. I found rimmers can be a bit difficult if you mention caterhams, Jigsaw always very good and offer uprated CW&P's
Wobbly web.
Are you using an Ital diff in a standard ten axle? I am aware that the diff fits but how do you get around the issue with half shafts, IE if you use Ital shafts they are too long
Chris
Wobbly web.
Are you using an Ital diff in a standard ten axle? I am aware that the diff fits but how do you get around the issue with half shafts, IE if you use Ital shafts they are too long
Chris
Edited by BDA on Thursday 7th October 19:06
Edited by BDA on Saturday 9th October 15:01
HI Chris
I use Standard halfshafts as you say the Marina are longer and the splines are bigger. I mix and match the internals. The LSD fits any housing and I use the crown wheel from a Marina and bolt it to the LSD and into the housing with the pinnion fitted. Marinas have wider bearings but its OK to use the narrow Standard bearings in the wider Marina housing.
Its all worked well enough for me for years.
My Lotus Seven has a tuned Twin Cam in and although i am not too hard on the axle it has survived well. Ive snapped 1 halfshaft and sheared the woodruff key once. I guess the LSD helps.
Rae
I use Standard halfshafts as you say the Marina are longer and the splines are bigger. I mix and match the internals. The LSD fits any housing and I use the crown wheel from a Marina and bolt it to the LSD and into the housing with the pinnion fitted. Marinas have wider bearings but its OK to use the narrow Standard bearings in the wider Marina housing.
Its all worked well enough for me for years.
My Lotus Seven has a tuned Twin Cam in and although i am not too hard on the axle it has survived well. Ive snapped 1 halfshaft and sheared the woodruff key once. I guess the LSD helps.
Rae
Rae,
Just to confirm, your LSD has standard ten side gears?
The reason I am inquiring is I am possibly looking at fitting an Ital/marina diff in a standard ten axle, which then causes me the issue that the diff side gears have the larger spline than the standard ten axle. Although part of the reason to fit the Ital diff is to have the benefit of the larger dia shafts (but these will need to be shortened, bespoke manufactured)
Cheers
Chris
Just to confirm, your LSD has standard ten side gears?
The reason I am inquiring is I am possibly looking at fitting an Ital/marina diff in a standard ten axle, which then causes me the issue that the diff side gears have the larger spline than the standard ten axle. Although part of the reason to fit the Ital diff is to have the benefit of the larger dia shafts (but these will need to be shortened, bespoke manufactured)
Cheers
Chris
Hi Chris,
sorry not sure what you mean by side gears. The Marina diff will fit straight into the Standard Ten axle, if you are planning to have marina halfshafts cut down they would fit the diff but i am not sure what effect that would have on the outboard side. Thicker halfshafts would not fit the outboard seals for instance. I have 3 sets of ratios and use the Marina or Standard housing with the pinnion fitted then bolt the big gear onto my LSD with the small splines for the Standard halfshafts.
I have had similar thoughts to you about cutting down the Mariana shafts,also maybe widening the standard axle but then might as well fit a Marina. Have you thought about having stronger Standard shafts made?
Rae
www.lotus-seven.co.uk
sorry not sure what you mean by side gears. The Marina diff will fit straight into the Standard Ten axle, if you are planning to have marina halfshafts cut down they would fit the diff but i am not sure what effect that would have on the outboard side. Thicker halfshafts would not fit the outboard seals for instance. I have 3 sets of ratios and use the Marina or Standard housing with the pinnion fitted then bolt the big gear onto my LSD with the small splines for the Standard halfshafts.
I have had similar thoughts to you about cutting down the Mariana shafts,also maybe widening the standard axle but then might as well fit a Marina. Have you thought about having stronger Standard shafts made?
Rae
www.lotus-seven.co.uk
Rae,
By side gears I mean the sun wheels, IE the splined female gears in the sides of the diff that the half shafts fit into. Which is now obvious they must be standard ten size as you are using standard shafts.
As for getting shafts made up, it is prohibitively expensive unless you can get a good few people on board and get a batch made up. I was going to have a look at shortening some marina shafts but haven't got around to looking at the feasability yet. as you say if you look at widening the standard axle you may as well just fit a marina/ital.
Cheers
Chris
By side gears I mean the sun wheels, IE the splined female gears in the sides of the diff that the half shafts fit into. Which is now obvious they must be standard ten size as you are using standard shafts.
As for getting shafts made up, it is prohibitively expensive unless you can get a good few people on board and get a batch made up. I was going to have a look at shortening some marina shafts but haven't got around to looking at the feasability yet. as you say if you look at widening the standard axle you may as well just fit a marina/ital.
Cheers
Chris
HELP!
I have a Morris Marina/Italian Axle in my Caterham.
I am looking to replace the real wheel bearings - so I bought one set and one bearing is moving on the halfshaft.
Now I have absolutley no idea what year this axle was produced....Car was first registered in 1989.
does someone know where I can buy bearings with these dimesnions?
measurements of the halfshaft/axle:
Inner diameter 25,3mm
Outer diameter 61,9mm
"Thickness" 16,1mm
I hope you someone can help?
I have a Morris Marina/Italian Axle in my Caterham.
I am looking to replace the real wheel bearings - so I bought one set and one bearing is moving on the halfshaft.
Now I have absolutley no idea what year this axle was produced....Car was first registered in 1989.
does someone know where I can buy bearings with these dimesnions?
measurements of the halfshaft/axle:
Inner diameter 25,3mm
Outer diameter 61,9mm
"Thickness" 16,1mm
I hope you someone can help?
It’s a predictable response, but have you tried Redline? I’d imagine they’d be able to help.
When I had an Ital axle Seven, I had a few drive shaft issues & eventually fitted Rakeway uprated shafts, bearings & hubs. That solved the problem. Unfortunately I don’t think Rakeway are making them any more.
When I had an Ital axle Seven, I had a few drive shaft issues & eventually fitted Rakeway uprated shafts, bearings & hubs. That solved the problem. Unfortunately I don’t think Rakeway are making them any more.
Morning all!
Well to be honest - I didnt have any issues with his responsivness so far....and I ordered quite a bit from him *lol*
I also know there is plenty on ebay - but it seemed the bearings differ for Marina axles from 1970 - 1981 to 1981 onwards.
Wondered if I just ordered the wrong one lat time....
CaterBram, thanks for the suggestion!
Doh...well yes that would solve the issue *lol* - 3 or 4 spots should do the trick - one consideration: how would I exchange a bearing after that.
Would take some serious angle-grinding *lol*
But yeah - if there is nothing else that can be done, this will be a way out
Well to be honest - I didnt have any issues with his responsivness so far....and I ordered quite a bit from him *lol*
I also know there is plenty on ebay - but it seemed the bearings differ for Marina axles from 1970 - 1981 to 1981 onwards.
Wondered if I just ordered the wrong one lat time....
CaterBram, thanks for the suggestion!
Doh...well yes that would solve the issue *lol* - 3 or 4 spots should do the trick - one consideration: how would I exchange a bearing after that.
Would take some serious angle-grinding *lol*
But yeah - if there is nothing else that can be done, this will be a way out
Edited by AustroSeven on Sunday 26th July 10:37
You might find the original ones were tack welded on but this solution is obviously not infallible.
I fitted Rakeway half shafts and hubs in the end, but prior to that I measured the gap between the neck of the hub flange and the seated bearing and turned up some shims. Seemed to me a better solution than the welds. Presumably the welds were done at the factory because assembling everything, measuring, turning shims for each shaft was too time consuming.
I fitted Rakeway half shafts and hubs in the end, but prior to that I measured the gap between the neck of the hub flange and the seated bearing and turned up some shims. Seemed to me a better solution than the welds. Presumably the welds were done at the factory because assembling everything, measuring, turning shims for each shaft was too time consuming.
P.S. Any bearing supplier will be able to get you bearings, they aren't anything fancy. Just find a bearing supplier and take one of the bearings in with you. Or if you have imperial measuring tools you could spec out the bearing yourself and buy it online.
ID seems highly likely to be 1"
OD 2, 7/16"
Width, I dunno, 5/8"?
ID seems highly likely to be 1"
OD 2, 7/16"
Width, I dunno, 5/8"?
Edited by Hustle_ on Tuesday 28th July 13:29
Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff