No running in service - Is it really still an issue at 62k?

[Burrito]

I'm in the market for an early face-lift E46 and thought I'd finally found one that's in my price range, with the spec and colour I'm after.

After a phone call from the (BMW) salesman I'm told it has no record of the RI service so they are not offering it in their used approved scheme but it will come with a 12 month auto-something-or-other-not-great-but-better-than-nothing warranty.

So, my question is this. After 62k miles, and regular servicing, does it matter that the running in service was missed/not recorded? As BMW has no record, I'd guess it was missed or indy (strange for RI service).

Obviously, I'm blinded by the possibility of a new car so I need someone to tell me to walk away, or get it bought!

[Rich_W]

Probably not. But the fact they won't warrant the car properly suggests something.

And of course, what happens when YOU try to sell the car in X years? Every buyers guide going mentions it.

[Soovy]

Means excessive engine wear in early life, as the running in oil is designed to "wear" the engine in its early life. For 1200 miles, not 12,000......................


Therefore engine is MUCH older than the actual mileage. BMW will not warrant ANY car which has missed it, which tells you all you need to know.



DO YOU FEEL LUCKY?



*BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR*

*POP*

Edited by Soovy on Monday 4th October 20:16

[Burrito]

Soovy said:

DO YOU FEEL LUCKY?

No! I guess the search continues... damn.

[IpsoFacto]

There is NO special running-in oil. Bargain them down and go for it - how many tales on here of S54 engines going bang due to lack of running-in service? You can probably count on one hand...
Ipso

Edited by IpsoFacto on Monday 4th October 22:02

[Herbs]

This has been done to death and yes there is a requirement it is done. The fact they refuse to warrant it and the hassle you will have selling it on means it's not worth it - let alone the increased wear and tear the engine would have suffered.

Plenty more cars out there

[LJTS]

IpsoFacto said:

There is NO special running-in oil. Bargain them down and go for it - how many tales on here of S54 engines going bang due to lack of running-ing service? You can probably count on one hand...
Ipso

Exactly!

I've never heard of one engine failure that has been linked to a missed running in service.

[Herbs]

To be fair neither have I but and it's a BIG but, not having the running in service done creates excessive wear on the engine. Now BMW engines are fairly robust so unlike TVR's they are not going to go pop at 30-40k. The higher the mileage the bigger the potential problem.

Make your own mind up and do your own research but ask yourself if is not important then why do BMW insist it is done, why do they put warning notices on the engine, refuse to guarantee the car and why do other manufacturers drastically reduce the trade in value if it is not done.

Not worth the gamble imo

[IpsoFacto]

I would be much more concerned about the subsequent 7 or 8 years of servicing / treatment than an oil-change within the first couple of months. These cars are getting on now, and buyers need do much more than 'box-ticking' when looking to purchase.

FWIW, my first M3 had a late running-in service (approx 2k miles) - but BMW did still warranty it, and even covered some items under goodwill. Nothing engine-related I add...

[Burrito]

Herbs said:

Make your own mind up and do your own research but ask yourself if is not important then why do BMW insist it is done, why do they put warning notices on the engine, refuse to guarantee the car and why do other manufacturers drastically reduce the trade in value if it is not done.

Not worth the gamble imo

Thanks for all the replies. This sums it up for me.

I've just emailed the salesman to double check that the service was not just late or missed off the service record but on the BMW database. If it's on the DB I'll push for BM warranty.

If not, I don't think it's worth the risk.

[Herbs]

If it's on the database then everything will be fine as that is the one that matters, if not then personally I would walk

[Bumble SV]

Remember, however great a deal you manage to strike, when you come to sell it on then you may well struggle and have to accept a reduced price - so its not necessarily that good a deal over the life of the car.

PS - I'd walk too; not worth the gamble.

PPS - the only reason I can think of buying a car of this age from a dealer and paying the premium (however reduced) is for AUC warranty, so why entertain?

[ferrisbueller]

So, mine didn't have the running-in service but I bought it as an AUC with two years warranty on it and a letter from the dealer saying that they would cover anything the AUC didn't if BMW refused any claims due to the running-in service being missed. That to me suggests that if nothing else the BMW dealer is confident all will be well. FWIW, they believed it had been done, but couldn't prove it.

If the engine did have excessive wear I'd expect it to manifest itself somewhere. Mine has now done 44k. It burns no oil, returns 30 mpg at a cruise, runs smoothly and performs as well as any other E46 M3 I've driven (5 stds and 2 CS's and counting). It will happily nudge the limiter at an indicated 169mph on the Autobahn with no issues with coolant or oil temp.

To mitigate the perceived risks associated with the lack or running-in service I'll change the oil in between services and swap out the diff oil more regularly. Personally, I believe the life the car as led will have as big a, if not bigger, effect on the longevity of its constituents.

ETA. Only if the car is run excessively hard on the running in oil will excess wear occur as the running in oil doesn't offer the same protection as the Castrol Edge, which, by the way, is the only oil BMW certify. If your car hasn't been run on Edge they will also baulk at warranty claims, alledgedly.

Edited by ferrisbueller on Monday 4th October 23:34

[Toilet Duck]

ferrisbueller said:

To mitigate the perceived risks associated with the lack or running-in service I'll change the oil in between services

That won't make any difference. Regular oil changes AFTER the damage is done is too late. Not saying your car is "damaged," but if the running in service was missed, then any premature wear that may or may not have occurred is not going to be "fixed" down the line with increased oil changes, even if you change it every other week.

[Gibo993]

Just remember you do not need to go to a BMW dealer to get a BMW Warranty, as long as any BMW has below 100k (pref 60k its cheaper) and Full Service history you can get a BMW Warranty, pay monthly and it never expires or goes up at 60k

Save yourself a packet and buy a good private well looked after example, make sure you do a HPI and check the numbers and you can't go too wrong. Even if BMW are selling this withought the Warranty I bet they are still making near 3k on the deal


edited to say, I would recommend you keep looking there are loads of cars out there, and thanks to this forum I did not plump for a nightmare car and bode my time and got a stunner.... sit tight on the wad of cash burning a hole and keep looking you will know when you have found the 'one'
(pity I didn't take this advice with wifes!! (joking dear))

Edited by Gibo993 on Tuesday 5th October 15:53

[dadofbud]

LJTS said:

IpsoFacto said:

There is NO special running-in oil. Bargain them down and go for it - how many tales on here of S54 engines going bang due to lack of running-ing service? You can probably count on one hand...
Ipso

Exactly!

I've never heard of one engine failure that has been linked to a missed running in service.


Plus 1

The S54 engine is as tough as it gets, if it had a current mileage of 15k and was only 2 years old then yes you would walk away.

[spareparts]

there are loads of E46 M3s which have had the running in service done on time.

why even bother with one that has spurious provenance?

[ferrisbueller]

Toilet Duck said:

ferrisbueller said:

To mitigate the perceived risks associated with the lack or running-in service I'll change the oil in between services

That won't make any difference. Regular oil changes AFTER the damage is done is too late. Not saying your car is "damaged," but if the running in service was missed, then any premature wear that may or may not have occurred is not going to be "fixed" down the line with increased oil changes, even if you change it every other week.

Yes and no. What damage are you inferring has taken place? Catastrophic scuffing and scoring of the bores? Damage to the bearings throughout? Valvetrain failure? I'd expect to see or hear some evidence of that if the "damage" is that bad, not just on my car but on the numerous accounts there would be on line. Accelerated wear rates, then maybe. But, if engine wear is proportional to usage i.e. miles, per some coefficient dependent on the engine then I'd be thinking that a) The engine has a life expectency at point of development of circa 200k miles, say. b) It has "perhaps" worn more quickly in the first 10k. Beyond that is it on to the same wear rate curve or a different one? And if it is on a different one, what does that curve look like? Has it skipped 20k miles up that wear rate so it may be down to 170k, 150k? At that mileage an M3 is probably not a viable economic option anyway, for lots of reasons other than engine. Also, subsequent frequent changes of oils would change that curve IMO. You can't undo wear, but you have an input to the rate of it IMO.

Bear in mind that any M3 that's had the 1,200 mile service may have had the st kicked out of it since day 1, negating any differential between a gently run car that ran to 10,000. It may also have been caned since then so any offset has been further negated or reversed.

The fact BMW are alledged to use the running in service to avoid paying out on any engine related claim, whether related to the service or not is perhaps the bigger issue. Worst case then my car is warrantied. [FWIW my car has had engine related work (coil packs) under the warranty, prior to my ownership - implies BMW are happy enough to honour it.] I doubt it would come to it but we'll see. I can't find the plethora of failed S54s due to lack of running-in service and BMW wouldn't hush them up. IIRC the big issue was bearings and big ends on pre-facelift cars before 2003, subject to blanket recall. Absolute worst case you can buy a replacement S54 and re-engine the car for less than 3k.

I'd advise the OP to get a record of the warranty work done on the car - something you can pull at any BMW main dealer. I'd look for a rock solid Service History (BMW MD only) and negotiate a deal to a point where he's comfortable with any perceived risk, including a warranty and a guarantee on that if he can. FWIW I don't foresee any issue in selling my car when the day comes.

[Burrito]

I'm still waiting on a reply from the dealer. Emailed last night but didn't have time to call them today. I am put off by their reluctance to offer the BMW warranty, so for now at least, I'm looking further afield.

Found what looks like a good example in Lincoln, it's only 6 hours away

Edited by Burrito on Tuesday 5th October 20:08

[Gibo993]

I found my E60 M5 in Cumbria and I live in Surrey!!! 'Twas the best drive home I have ever had though!! Guy who owned it promised to pay for all travel expense if it was not as described, it was and is now sat nestled in my underground carpark, I might pop down and give it a little pat

Good Luck