1602 vs 2002 whats the difference other than engine?
Discussion
Not sure - I don't think there is much difference
If you're going to use it for competition you're probably going to want a 2002tii front subframe plus legs, brakes & etc and also the complete rear subframe
IMHO the best way to proceed would be to find the best rolling shell you can, strip it and build it up with tii front & rear subframes, an '02 dogleg box (if you can find one) and an '02 slipper (if you can afford one)
Non-tiis have no rear ARB, smaller brakes and there are probably a few other differences. 2002 turbo brakes had bigger rear cylinders but apart from that I think they are the same as tii brakes. tii calipers are 4-pots. They tend to seize & stick but a rebuilt set gives startling stopping power even with standard pads
A tii engine with twin Webers on ti manifolds works exceptionally well (the tii engine has bigger valves and a higher CR) and you get rid of the problematic Kugelfisher injection
You can cut the spring cups off the front legs and convert them to coilovers with 2.25" springs. Rear springs can, allegedly, be replaced with Cosworth Sapphire items or you could convert them to 2.25"
If you want easy cruising an E30 5-speed fits with a modified prop. The M10 engine was also used in early E30s with fuel injection but a pair of Weber 40s works well enough
Final thing is that there is a quick steering box available - but only for LHD cars
They are tough cars, very strong and beautifully built. They make contemporary Escorts & etc look like rubbish
What series are you planning to use it in and are there any restrictions on what you can do?
Nick Froome
If you're going to use it for competition you're probably going to want a 2002tii front subframe plus legs, brakes & etc and also the complete rear subframe
IMHO the best way to proceed would be to find the best rolling shell you can, strip it and build it up with tii front & rear subframes, an '02 dogleg box (if you can find one) and an '02 slipper (if you can afford one)
Non-tiis have no rear ARB, smaller brakes and there are probably a few other differences. 2002 turbo brakes had bigger rear cylinders but apart from that I think they are the same as tii brakes. tii calipers are 4-pots. They tend to seize & stick but a rebuilt set gives startling stopping power even with standard pads
A tii engine with twin Webers on ti manifolds works exceptionally well (the tii engine has bigger valves and a higher CR) and you get rid of the problematic Kugelfisher injection
You can cut the spring cups off the front legs and convert them to coilovers with 2.25" springs. Rear springs can, allegedly, be replaced with Cosworth Sapphire items or you could convert them to 2.25"
If you want easy cruising an E30 5-speed fits with a modified prop. The M10 engine was also used in early E30s with fuel injection but a pair of Weber 40s works well enough
Final thing is that there is a quick steering box available - but only for LHD cars
They are tough cars, very strong and beautifully built. They make contemporary Escorts & etc look like rubbish
What series are you planning to use it in and are there any restrictions on what you can do?
Nick Froome
Edited by bolide on Wednesday 6th October 23:43
Edited by bolide on Wednesday 6th October 23:43
Edited by bolide on Wednesday 6th October 23:44
Edited by bolide on Wednesday 6th October 23:49
i believe there is little difference between engines.
M10 engines were used in all 4 cylinder E21 cars as well as early E30's and are reasonable easy to get hold of and are very, very robust. mine, nearly 30 years old, takes abuse when called upon and doesn't cause a fuss. as said, a 5 speed M10 box will bolt in, it's the conversion i've put in my E21. webers make a massive difference in drivability and low down torque (and noise!)
you are best off asking on the '02 forums.
M10 engines were used in all 4 cylinder E21 cars as well as early E30's and are reasonable easy to get hold of and are very, very robust. mine, nearly 30 years old, takes abuse when called upon and doesn't cause a fuss. as said, a 5 speed M10 box will bolt in, it's the conversion i've put in my E21. webers make a massive difference in drivability and low down torque (and noise!)
you are best off asking on the '02 forums.
thanks for all the info. The detail, especially from Nick, is much appreciated and tells me wheat I neede to know - the swap is too involved for what I wanted to do (some rallies, some hillclimbs and some autotests) so I'll either need a 2002 or, more probably, something else.
Thanks
Chris
Thanks
Chris
They're like Meccano - things just bolt together so I would expect an auto / manual swop to be easy. From memory there a rectangular panel with rounded corners set into the firewall. It carries the steering column bearing & pedalbox. You'd need to change that for a manual one and that should get you everything you need apart from the slave cylinder
The slave cylinder fits into the bellhousing & is retained by a big circlip. There's a short hose to the master cylinder and, from memory, there's a common reservoir for the brakes & clutch
The Getrag gearboxes are pretty much indestructible. Prop centre bearings can fail (mine did) so replace that. Diffs seem to be bulletproof as well
All the parts are available through Walloth u Nesch in Germany or the usual suspects over here. I found a source of good windscreens for £30 each and bought a couple... the rubber seal costs more than that!
The best mods I did to mine were throwing away the Kugelfisher, throwing away the remote servos, replacing the windscreen, fitting 205/60 x 13 Yokohama 032Rs and fitting an '02 LSD. The LSD transforms the car
Nick Froome
The slave cylinder fits into the bellhousing & is retained by a big circlip. There's a short hose to the master cylinder and, from memory, there's a common reservoir for the brakes & clutch
The Getrag gearboxes are pretty much indestructible. Prop centre bearings can fail (mine did) so replace that. Diffs seem to be bulletproof as well
All the parts are available through Walloth u Nesch in Germany or the usual suspects over here. I found a source of good windscreens for £30 each and bought a couple... the rubber seal costs more than that!
The best mods I did to mine were throwing away the Kugelfisher, throwing away the remote servos, replacing the windscreen, fitting 205/60 x 13 Yokohama 032Rs and fitting an '02 LSD. The LSD transforms the car
Nick Froome
BMWChris said:
How about swaping autos for manuals? I'd want to go to a 5 speed anyway (over driven for cruising, not closely stacked for performance). Are auto 2002 the same other than 'box?
ps Nick - I can't see pick at work. Will have to wait till tonight.
phone rich snr at fritz's bits, he'd be more than helpful...mention ross with the green E21 sent you.ps Nick - I can't see pick at work. Will have to wait till tonight.
trust me, seriously, seriously knows his stuff.
01823 674459
i mean it, well worth the phone call.
BMWChris said:
We'll see what comes up then.
Thanks for the advice / inspiration
Chris
fritz, i'm pretty sure, will have all the bits you need for an auto to manual conversion in stock. if not, they'll know exactly where to get the bits.Thanks for the advice / inspiration
Chris
if you need any help do give them a call, and as said, mention you know ross
sure he'll be happy to help.
E21_Ross said:
BMWChris said:
We'll see what comes up then.
Thanks for the advice / inspiration
Chris
fritz, i'm pretty sure, will have all the bits you need for an auto to manual conversion in stock. if not, they'll know exactly where to get the bits.Thanks for the advice / inspiration
Chris
if you need any help do give them a call, and as said, mention you know ross
sure he'll be happy to help.
I have to say though chaps... a 924 is the most likely.
I've got a 2002 sitting in my garage in pieces that needs all of the above done - there are a few little differences with the auto and manual, like the auto has an automatic choke which I don't think the manual does - not that that really makes a difference.
Fritz or Jaymic will be able to help you out. Neil at Automac was selling a 2002 rolling shell if that's any use to you? Can't find the link, but his email is neil@automac.com I think.
Fritz or Jaymic will be able to help you out. Neil at Automac was selling a 2002 rolling shell if that's any use to you? Can't find the link, but his email is neil@automac.com I think.
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