AJP engine manual
Discussion
I heard was he was trying to do fellow PH's a favour. They asked for manuals so he spent £260.00 buying manuals from a supplier. Then they never sent their cheques so he was left out of pocket. Think he is only trying to recover his losses after trying to do fellow Cerb owners a favour.
a1rak said:
I heard was he was trying to do fellow PH's a favour. They asked for manuals so he spent £260.00 buying manuals from a supplier. Then they never sent their cheques so he was left out of pocket. Think he is only trying to recover his losses after trying to do fellow Cerb owners a favour.
So not only have they bought something dodgey they havent paid for it. Two crimes in one! Double the fun. kwosimodo said:
who is he? and does he still have manuals or a source for manuals?
Nobody seems to know! We've had about 4 or 5 topics in the past month or two trying to find out what the source of this manual is, and everyone is sure that copy it will break copyright (not that anyone seems bothered by that with the other manuals), but no one knows who actually owns the copyright!Edited by kwosimodo on Friday 8th October 16:06
I don't believe that there is a copyright issue here as one was never applied for. My understanding is that the original engine manual was produced in very small numbers and was for use by TVR when they originally built the engines - therefore it is a build manual not a re-build manual.
"My source" told me that, when TVR was in the throws of failing, the manual was "borrowed", copied and replaced and that this is the source of all of the subsequent manuals that have been produced.
When the original manual was removed from TVR there was no intent to permanently deprive - therefore no theft.
When it was copied (if I am correct that there was no copyright) then no such infringement occurred.
It may be that there is some obscure law in relation to the theft of information - though there would appear to be no complaint in relation to this from TVR.
For the record, I have no involvement in any of this and no personal interest. However, it seems to me that there is no loser in this scenario - or if there is, it's TVR who lost intellectual material and appear uninterested in the matter. Overall, if the presence of this material allows enthusiasts to keep Cerberas on the road with no financial or ethical cost to others I can't see that there is an issue.
"My source" told me that, when TVR was in the throws of failing, the manual was "borrowed", copied and replaced and that this is the source of all of the subsequent manuals that have been produced.
When the original manual was removed from TVR there was no intent to permanently deprive - therefore no theft.
When it was copied (if I am correct that there was no copyright) then no such infringement occurred.
It may be that there is some obscure law in relation to the theft of information - though there would appear to be no complaint in relation to this from TVR.
For the record, I have no involvement in any of this and no personal interest. However, it seems to me that there is no loser in this scenario - or if there is, it's TVR who lost intellectual material and appear uninterested in the matter. Overall, if the presence of this material allows enthusiasts to keep Cerberas on the road with no financial or ethical cost to others I can't see that there is an issue.
As far as I understand you don't need to apply for copyright for it to be in place, you just need to be able to prove that you are the original author/creator of the material.
I also believe this is a manual that has come from TVR, rather than authored by a third party. As you say the manual is a build manual. It doesn't tell you how to take anything apart, only how to put it together. It also tells you about the modifications you need to carry out on bare castings and when things are brand new, things you don't have to obviously do on subsequent builds.
If anyone has enough pictures of an engine in various stages of build then I'm happy to recreate the build procedure and make it available for all FOC.
I also believe this is a manual that has come from TVR, rather than authored by a third party. As you say the manual is a build manual. It doesn't tell you how to take anything apart, only how to put it together. It also tells you about the modifications you need to carry out on bare castings and when things are brand new, things you don't have to obviously do on subsequent builds.
If anyone has enough pictures of an engine in various stages of build then I'm happy to recreate the build procedure and make it available for all FOC.
I should have done this when I rebuilt mine. It's just that all of the photography gets in the way of the work!
I have some photos. but they're just of parts rather than a job being done alla Haynes!
ETA - re the copyright matter - you're probably right. My main point was that, ethically there doesn't appear to be a loser here. I did see someone alluding to the fact that some of Steve Heaths bibles were available online (scanned). To me that is both desperately tight and illegal. "Morte di fame" as they say in Italy. If you can't afford to buy the genuine book then don't run a TVR. I don't think that's the case with the engine build manuals though.
I have some photos. but they're just of parts rather than a job being done alla Haynes!
ETA - re the copyright matter - you're probably right. My main point was that, ethically there doesn't appear to be a loser here. I did see someone alluding to the fact that some of Steve Heaths bibles were available online (scanned). To me that is both desperately tight and illegal. "Morte di fame" as they say in Italy. If you can't afford to buy the genuine book then don't run a TVR. I don't think that's the case with the engine build manuals though.
Edited by itiejim on Friday 8th October 19:36
jammy_basturd said:
As far as I understand you don't need to apply for copyright for it to be in place, you just need to be able to prove that you are the original author/creator of the material.
I also believe this is a manual that has come from TVR, rather than authored by a third party. As you say the manual is a build manual. It doesn't tell you how to take anything apart, only how to put it together. It also tells you about the modifications you need to carry out on bare castings and when things are brand new, things you don't have to obviously do on subsequent builds.
If anyone has enough pictures of an engine in various stages of build then I'm happy to recreate the build procedure and make it available for all FOC.
I think there are a number of agendas from various posters on this thread and others like it.I also believe this is a manual that has come from TVR, rather than authored by a third party. As you say the manual is a build manual. It doesn't tell you how to take anything apart, only how to put it together. It also tells you about the modifications you need to carry out on bare castings and when things are brand new, things you don't have to obviously do on subsequent builds.
If anyone has enough pictures of an engine in various stages of build then I'm happy to recreate the build procedure and make it available for all FOC.
TVR generated the manual and as such are likely to have whatever control over its publication that they care to exercise, if any. Any other "owner" that we might identify with is unlikely to have formal permission from TVR to reprint the manual.
Someone reprinting a document that noone can be bothered to exercise rights to, is effectively in the public domain. So unless any of you have some kind of formal TVR position, then I am uncertain as to why you would take a position on the sharing of this.
I have a copy, it's of modest quality and only limited use. Probably why the real owners see no problem in its circulation.
Not trying to do anyone out of pocket here but I bought a set of these on eBay and happy to share them with anyone else who wants them.
Interestingly they are also (appear) to be exactly the same as the ones online at "The TVR Site" which I think hosted by one of us other fellow PHers
http://www.thetvrsite.com/workshop-manual
Interestingly they are also (appear) to be exactly the same as the ones online at "The TVR Site" which I think hosted by one of us other fellow PHers
http://www.thetvrsite.com/workshop-manual
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