Integrale v Impreza
Discussion
I have an 02 WRX wagon, as a second car. Great car for what I need, but I've always wanted an Integrale, and thinking about trading in. But, would it be a disappointment dynamically, given age difference...and would it break down a lot..? Any other issues?
It will sit outside and to use not look at. I'm thinking Evo 1 is better value, and more authentic. No other suggestions needed, thanks - it's Integrale to tick the box, or stick with what I have.
Cheers
It will sit outside and to use not look at. I'm thinking Evo 1 is better value, and more authentic. No other suggestions needed, thanks - it's Integrale to tick the box, or stick with what I have.
Cheers
I currently have a P1 Impreza as a weekend warrior and have also run an 8 valve Integrale as a daily driver a good few years back.The Integrale was one of the most reliable vehicles i have ever owned, but take caution with any grale you buy now as they are getting on abit.If i'm honest, the grale still pulls at my heart strings.The P1 will be sold in the next couple of years to be replaced by a CSL and i can't see me missing it the same.Do it,we're not here long.....
It depends what you're looking for in terms of ownership. If you're looking for something that's going to put in a quicker laptime in standard form, then you're probably looking in the wrong place. But if you want to feel more connected to everything that's happening on a twisting greasy British road, i.e. become the organic part of a machine, then it's up there with the best drivers cars.
Reliability is not an issue with any well maintained car. All cars are over 15 years old, so mileage is largely irrelevant. Mine has done over 140,000 miles on its original engine.
They are very practical and versatile; I've variously used mine as a daily driver, family continental holidays, trips to the local dump, carting bicycles around, and of course unrivalled B-road entertainment and plenty of trackdays.
Test a couple of well sorted cars and see what you think. You might just get smitten.
Reliability is not an issue with any well maintained car. All cars are over 15 years old, so mileage is largely irrelevant. Mine has done over 140,000 miles on its original engine.
They are very practical and versatile; I've variously used mine as a daily driver, family continental holidays, trips to the local dump, carting bicycles around, and of course unrivalled B-road entertainment and plenty of trackdays.
Test a couple of well sorted cars and see what you think. You might just get smitten.
Feedback and tactility better on the 'grale than the Impreza. Turns a lot more heads too, if that's important to you.
Evo 1 has quite an old fashioned turbo lag, so you might want to consider the 2, though the purists will say only the 1 has true rally provenance.
Expensive to run if you want to preserve it - it's mechanically reliable, but you will want to keep fettling (esp electrics), and parts are difficult to get hold of. Many owners have upgraded chassis and engine components, which keep it honest against modern Jap stuff, but be sure to check whether these are "sympathetic" upgrades.
Lots of good info on Evocorner (Delphi forums), or ask on the Alfa/Fiat/Lancia sub-forum here.
Evo 1 has quite an old fashioned turbo lag, so you might want to consider the 2, though the purists will say only the 1 has true rally provenance.
Expensive to run if you want to preserve it - it's mechanically reliable, but you will want to keep fettling (esp electrics), and parts are difficult to get hold of. Many owners have upgraded chassis and engine components, which keep it honest against modern Jap stuff, but be sure to check whether these are "sympathetic" upgrades.
Lots of good info on Evocorner (Delphi forums), or ask on the Alfa/Fiat/Lancia sub-forum here.
footsoldier said:
Is the Evo considerably better than 16v?
Not considerably better, but some components were improved, including more power. It has a slightly wider track and is slightly heavier, so the 8/16V cars are marginally more chuckable on HM highway. Driving the two, the EVO feels noticeably bigger, but that's not necessarily a bad thing - it still delivers that special connection with the driver.It doesn't matter which model you prefer - but bear in mind that if you look after it well, it's depreciation-proof (mind you, EVO1/2 prices are rather inflated at the moment, due to good old Top Gear).
footsoldier said:
I have an 02 WRX wagon, as a second car. Great car for what I need, but I've always wanted an Integrale, and thinking about trading in. But, would it be a disappointment dynamically, given age difference...and would it break down a lot..? Any other issues?
It will sit outside and to use not look at.
If it sits outside not being used it will crumble away before your very own eyes.It will sit outside and to use not look at.
Rust is the killer on these, I had one in 1994 and even in those days the A piller, roof and doors rotted through, unbelievable (it was only a few yrs old then, imagine what a 20 yr old one is like).
If you get out of your 02 Impreza and into a typical Integrale today it will feel old (prehistoric) fragile, slow and a bit of a let down. If you are prepared to spend enough to get a really good late model one - say £15k-£20k it will feel good. But that is a lot to invest, when you could just buy a good STi or type 25 fo rless, and it would blow it away, and be reliable.
I would spend £15-20k for a good one, if it would be reliable, and wouldn't rust before my very own eyes! Is the rust inevitable if it sits outside, even if used regularly and is a later version?
I know an STi etc would be better, quicker and more reliable, but then I haven't wanted one of those for the last 20 years...
Cheers
I know an STi etc would be better, quicker and more reliable, but then I haven't wanted one of those for the last 20 years...
Cheers
Edited by footsoldier on Friday 8th October 18:09
Both my integrales spent their lives outside as my Caterham lived in the garage at the last house (it too has to live outside at this one).
First one did in excess of 160,000, the current is on 190,000 . . . First one needed no rust repair in my ownership of 8 years. Current 1992 Evo needs some stone chips sorting around the screen after 5yrs of my abuse. So, no, rust isn't an issue - but as Daily Mirror reading fools keep going on about Lancia and rust, it knocks the price down so you can buy one of the best drivers cars in the world ;-) If it suffers from old car rust, get it sorted and get driving.
Both of mine got/get used everyday - commuting (to Germany from Yorkshire at one point!) - current one has a tow bar and is used to tow stuff regularly - people don't expect caravans carrying a K-plate to simply bug ger off into the distance, uphill ;-)
Compared to a modern car, they are relatively slow, noisy, prone to stress cracks in the shell, small, tiny boot, not exactly economical (although mine does 25mpg with the Caterham on the trailer - and that's real mpg rather than reading the kilometer odometer they all have) - but absolutely fantastic to drive on a twisty, flowing road. And it's impossible to park and walk away, anywhere - work, home, shops - and not look back and quietly grin ;-)
Even gets the thumbs up from the boys in blue - I got told off by one for having dust on the dashboard (daily car - no time to clean/dust). Doesn't seem to have the hooligan reputation like other cars. And the number of people who stop, stare and give the thumbs up - from kids to geriatrics. But you might get fed up with people pulling alongside on motorways and sitting there for a while - passengers seem to like taking piccies ;-)
Do it - if you don't like it, you'll get your money back and can go back to something less imteresting. Get a good one, get it checked over by someone who knows to get it set-up right, and you'll be keeping it a while! And linked into the other numerous threads on here, get some winter tyres on it and have a blast this winter. Alfa 156 steelies and 10mm hub-centric spacers fit perfectly with 195/55/15 winter tyres.
15 yrs-ish total of integrale ownership so far . . . nothing out there I have any interest in replacing it with.
Bri
First one did in excess of 160,000, the current is on 190,000 . . . First one needed no rust repair in my ownership of 8 years. Current 1992 Evo needs some stone chips sorting around the screen after 5yrs of my abuse. So, no, rust isn't an issue - but as Daily Mirror reading fools keep going on about Lancia and rust, it knocks the price down so you can buy one of the best drivers cars in the world ;-) If it suffers from old car rust, get it sorted and get driving.
Both of mine got/get used everyday - commuting (to Germany from Yorkshire at one point!) - current one has a tow bar and is used to tow stuff regularly - people don't expect caravans carrying a K-plate to simply bug ger off into the distance, uphill ;-)
Compared to a modern car, they are relatively slow, noisy, prone to stress cracks in the shell, small, tiny boot, not exactly economical (although mine does 25mpg with the Caterham on the trailer - and that's real mpg rather than reading the kilometer odometer they all have) - but absolutely fantastic to drive on a twisty, flowing road. And it's impossible to park and walk away, anywhere - work, home, shops - and not look back and quietly grin ;-)
Even gets the thumbs up from the boys in blue - I got told off by one for having dust on the dashboard (daily car - no time to clean/dust). Doesn't seem to have the hooligan reputation like other cars. And the number of people who stop, stare and give the thumbs up - from kids to geriatrics. But you might get fed up with people pulling alongside on motorways and sitting there for a while - passengers seem to like taking piccies ;-)
Do it - if you don't like it, you'll get your money back and can go back to something less imteresting. Get a good one, get it checked over by someone who knows to get it set-up right, and you'll be keeping it a while! And linked into the other numerous threads on here, get some winter tyres on it and have a blast this winter. Alfa 156 steelies and 10mm hub-centric spacers fit perfectly with 195/55/15 winter tyres.
15 yrs-ish total of integrale ownership so far . . . nothing out there I have any interest in replacing it with.
Bri
Regards rust - yes unfortunately it is an issue, particulary on the roof, it starts at the rear and works its way forward, cosmetically it can look fine, underneath it may be rotting - that is a very very common issue and can write the car off effectively. If you buy one make sure you have it thoroughly checked at a specialist such as John Whalley. A bad car will be a potential disaster for you.
If your funds will stretch I would go for an Evo as I prefer the body. Do you mind driving a LHD car?
If your funds will stretch I would go for an Evo as I prefer the body. Do you mind driving a LHD car?
As a second car I'd get one tomorrow. I almost convinced the wife to have an Evo2 as a daily a while back but finding one in good shape whilst not getting walkered is tricky!!!
Don't you fancy E30 M3? Or is it dodgy electrics and tin worm you're looking for?
Evo was on my short list recently but I opted for 968 Club Sport instead. More chance of lasting and a much better car.
Love grales but they're getting on and a good one is too hard to find hence massive premiums!!
Don't you fancy E30 M3? Or is it dodgy electrics and tin worm you're looking for?
Evo was on my short list recently but I opted for 968 Club Sport instead. More chance of lasting and a much better car.
Love grales but they're getting on and a good one is too hard to find hence massive premiums!!
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