philip greens report today
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petemurphy

Original Poster:

10,948 posts

213 months

Monday 11th October 2010
quotequote all
should be interesting re gov waste - i see the bbc have already attcked him on their website:

"if all businesses and wealthy individuals could somehow be persuaded to devote less time and effort to minimising their British tax payments, rather smaller cuts in public services would be required.- robert tt peston”

lets hope cmd sends him into the bbc after sorting whitehall bunch of fkers

Manks

28,176 posts

252 months

Monday 11th October 2010
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Some of my in-laws work in the public sector and when they come over at Christmas I have to bite my tongue constantly when they tell me about their jobs. Whilst they are completely oblivious to it, it is apparent that waste and inefficiency are rife. What makes it worse is that they don't realise and think it is perfectly normal.

I strongly suspect that if the public sector were forced to be as efficient as the private sector our tax bills would halve overnight.

jammy_basturd

29,778 posts

242 months

Monday 11th October 2010
quotequote all
Guam said:
The Amazing thing here is that Samuel Peyps understod the concept of Waste (and corruption) in public procurement and set up the Crown Suppliers, which maggie got shot of (something even though I was seconded in there for six months) I profoundly disagreed with. Coupled with The HMSO it was their function to keep procurement costs at a sensible level.

It seems to me that much of what we have seen over the last few decades can be traced back directly to this hideously inept decision.
Surely the answer is managers that know what they are doing and keeping to budgets for their departments, rather than having a-whole-nother department just to constantly review spending!?

chimster

1,747 posts

239 months

Monday 11th October 2010
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Do both. Tax fairly and effectively and stop wastage. No problem with that.;)

theaxe

3,571 posts

252 months

Monday 11th October 2010
quotequote all
Any idea where I can get hold of a copy of the full report?

V8mate

45,899 posts

219 months

Monday 11th October 2010
quotequote all
jammy_basturd said:
Guam said:
The Amazing thing here is that Samuel Peyps understod the concept of Waste (and corruption) in public procurement and set up the Crown Suppliers, which maggie got shot of (something even though I was seconded in there for six months) I profoundly disagreed with. Coupled with The HMSO it was their function to keep procurement costs at a sensible level.

It seems to me that much of what we have seen over the last few decades can be traced back directly to this hideously inept decision.
Surely the answer is managers that know what they are doing and keeping to budgets for their departments, rather than having a-whole-nother department just to constantly review spending!?
My bold. Pure and simple. The lack of leadership and management qualities (an understanding of the difference would be good too) is absolutely at the heart of why the public sector fails year on year.

The place is full of inept empire-builders who are rewarded directly for the magnitude of their establishment.

tamore

10,037 posts

314 months

Monday 11th October 2010
quotequote all
the thing is, if people saw their tax deduction spent wisely by government there would be a fair few who wouldn't bother avoiding tax. the fact it's pissed up the wall makes people avoid paying it.

mattviatura

2,996 posts

230 months

Monday 11th October 2010
quotequote all
tamore said:
the thing is, if people saw their tax deduction spent wisely by government there would be a fair few who wouldn't bother avoiding tax. the fact it's pissed up the wall makes people avoid paying it.
Spot on.

Mr E Driver

8,542 posts

214 months

Monday 11th October 2010
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Philip Green on the lunchtime news said if he ran his businesses like the government had managed their financial affairs he wouldn't have a business.

thinfourth2

32,414 posts

234 months

Monday 11th October 2010
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mattviatura said:
tamore said:
the thing is, if people saw their tax deduction spent wisely by government there would be a fair few who wouldn't bother avoiding tax. the fact it's pissed up the wall makes people avoid paying it.
Spot on.
Bingo

When i was a non tax payer i was happier at not contributing to the piss-up that is the state then i was about the extra cash in my pocket

Now i'm a tax payer it annoys the crap out of me

paulrockliffe

16,600 posts

257 months

Monday 11th October 2010
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My housemate is funded by the Tax Payer, get's up between 9 and 9:30, wanders into work, gets home about 4. Says everyone in his team does it and no one is bothered. How can no one be bothered??

tamore

10,037 posts

314 months

Monday 11th October 2010
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
My housemate is funded by the Tax Payer, get's up between 9 and 9:30, wanders into work, gets home about 4. Says everyone in his team does it and no one is bothered. How can no one be bothered??
mrs tamore had exactly this experience at a quango which is hanging by a thread. she and the same 2 or 3 faces were first in every day. we're talking 8.45 here, not beating the postie! they were also the same faces out of the door last, and again we're talking about 5.30.

the rest would wander in any time up to 11, and sod off between 3.30 and 5. she got sick of it and left a couple of months ago, but the rest of them can't see why the whole place is about to be axed!

Big Rod

6,265 posts

246 months

Monday 11th October 2010
quotequote all
mattviatura said:
tamore said:
the thing is, if people saw their tax deduction spent wisely by government there would be a fair few who wouldn't bother avoiding tax. the fact it's pissed up the wall makes people avoid paying it.
Spot on.
BANG! Hammer -----> Nailhead.

7thCircleAcolyte

332 posts

225 months

Monday 11th October 2010
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Perhaps we need a PH tax rebellion?

I'm quite happy to reduce my tax paid using legal avoidance by say another 1p in the pound for every year public sector waste goes unchecked. (I've picked a low number because finding 1p in the first year is easy, 2p in the second year a little less simple, and once you get to year 10 it starts to get harder to maintain the 'growth').

Sooner or later one of three things happens:
They stop the waste.
We get tax paid down to a fair level given the waste.
They change the tax system to one without loopholes.

Parrot of Doom

23,075 posts

264 months

Monday 11th October 2010
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Aye, then he could go home and knock ten bells out of his wife for not cooking his tea wink

Not misogynist! Not misogynist!

WhoseGeneration

4,090 posts

237 months

Monday 11th October 2010
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So, what do we want to pay the CEO of a new "Crown Procurement Agency"?
% of savings, to also be part of the pay down the scale?
Then, bh at how much the CEO and others there are paid?
See the potential for problems?
Incentives, see.

whoami

13,201 posts

270 months

Monday 11th October 2010
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Parrot of Doom said:
Aye, then he could go home and knock ten bells out of his wife for not cooking his tea wink

Not misogynist! Not misogynist!
confused

johnfm

13,751 posts

280 months

Tuesday 12th October 2010
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Centralised procurement can't work where the field of suppliers is trimmed to a 'preferred suppliers' list - which usually happens when you try to centrally purchase a billion paper clips/40 squillion reams of paper/50,000 photocopiers etc.

You get limited suppliers, colluding on prices, sharing out the contracts etc.]
The massive, centralised supply contract become so huge that you then get issues of 'bungs' to secure a place on the preferred suppliers lists etc.

I expect the real solution is more experienced procurement people and an effective incentive for them to give a st about how they spend the money.

WhoseGeneration

4,090 posts

237 months

Tuesday 12th October 2010
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Of course, we could, perhaps, look to some of the most effective procurement organisations out there.
The Supermarket chains.

elster

17,517 posts

240 months

Tuesday 12th October 2010
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theaxe said:
Any idea where I can get hold of a copy of the full report?
http://download.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/efficiency/sirphilipgreenreview.pdf