Firewall results
Discussion
A while back I posted the fact that I had gone the route of an ally firewall install (complete with insulation) with the intention of leaving the cab off the car so I could get at everything with no hassle.
There was some concern (well meant and well received) that when I got to try to fit the cab between the ally panel and frame with all the engine bay built I might struggle! ...and yes I was a bit concerned myself...so...
last weekend I set to try putting the cab on...
With a bit of careful thought, and slowly does-it...I managed to slide the back GRP of the cab most of the way between the fame and firewall, then hit an immovable object! On examination I found a rivet stub sticking out so removed and reversed the fitting of the rivet with the 'nice' smooth end toward the cab GRP. After about an hour of fiddling, and gentle persuasion it all fitted nicely without any distortion...Easy? Not quite!...worth it?...YES!
...so It can be done - with thought and planning!
cheers
Keith
There was some concern (well meant and well received) that when I got to try to fit the cab between the ally panel and frame with all the engine bay built I might struggle! ...and yes I was a bit concerned myself...so...
last weekend I set to try putting the cab on...
With a bit of careful thought, and slowly does-it...I managed to slide the back GRP of the cab most of the way between the fame and firewall, then hit an immovable object! On examination I found a rivet stub sticking out so removed and reversed the fitting of the rivet with the 'nice' smooth end toward the cab GRP. After about an hour of fiddling, and gentle persuasion it all fitted nicely without any distortion...Easy? Not quite!...worth it?...YES!
...so It can be done - with thought and planning!
cheers
Keith
Edited by V8 Vum on Wednesday 13th October 17:31
Very nice, but I still don't understand why ??? are you going to leave the body unglued so you can remove it at any time later ? eventually your going to have to fit and glue the body for good, why not do the plumbing then. If this was a race car it would make sense, but if your worried about fire then fit a engine bay fire ext system.... and if you want to cut down the noise then I'm sorry but you kind of missed the whole point of the car IMHO....
PS engine bay plumbing is no problem to fit after a test fit of the engine and box to check for space issues, but dash wiring is a pain, especially if you doing allot of mods to it. So id be more concerned about having a removable dash so you can fit the dash to the car then the body after... I suppose we both have different ideas as to whats going to be a pain to build. Anyway my thoughts aside any pictures so we can see what and how you've done it, others may want to make the mod...
PS engine bay plumbing is no problem to fit after a test fit of the engine and box to check for space issues, but dash wiring is a pain, especially if you doing allot of mods to it. So id be more concerned about having a removable dash so you can fit the dash to the car then the body after... I suppose we both have different ideas as to whats going to be a pain to build. Anyway my thoughts aside any pictures so we can see what and how you've done it, others may want to make the mod...
GTRCLIVE said:
and if you want to cut down the noise then I'm sorry but you kind of missed the whole point of the car IMHO....
I really don't understand this attitude to be honest.If it DID cut down on noise for not really that much extra effort, why not? Seems a bit dumb to me but then any fool can be uncomfortable and claim that it's "A RACE CAR FOR THE ROAD" or that you are "MISSING THE SPIRIT OF THE CAR", b
ks.I say well done that man.
Clive,
.. whilst I understand your comments and the reason behind them, for us 'older' (now stop-it!)builder-Gents, having to squeeze in and out of the cab to do the final wiring, setting the guages and other essential bits, and often having to be on our backs sqeezing into the footwells..is rather a challenge and not good for the sciatica or even arthritis or cramps...
...so forgive me, but anything that minimises this rather grotesque sight and the choice between this and finding a way of decking out the engine bay and test-running the engine with nothing else to do BEFORE putting the cab on...is VERY DESIRABLE!
..and NO the cab will be permanently fitted after.
Keithy
.. whilst I understand your comments and the reason behind them, for us 'older' (now stop-it!)builder-Gents, having to squeeze in and out of the cab to do the final wiring, setting the guages and other essential bits, and often having to be on our backs sqeezing into the footwells..is rather a challenge and not good for the sciatica or even arthritis or cramps...
...so forgive me, but anything that minimises this rather grotesque sight and the choice between this and finding a way of decking out the engine bay and test-running the engine with nothing else to do BEFORE putting the cab on...is VERY DESIRABLE!
..and NO the cab will be permanently fitted after.
Keithy
Edited by V8 Vum on Wednesday 13th October 17:39
Is this - get at old Keithy-time? or is it that y'all got out of the bed the wrong side?
I am somewhat surprised at your logic here? Getting in and out of the engine bay is a doddle compared to climbing in and sqirming around the cab area with the top on - You will find out when you get to my age!
Whats the beef?
Keef
I am somewhat surprised at your logic here? Getting in and out of the engine bay is a doddle compared to climbing in and sqirming around the cab area with the top on - You will find out when you get to my age!
Whats the beef?
Keef
Sorry bud not picking on you, and Good your looking for alternative ways on how to do something. Just that you do the same work in the engine bay side with the engine out weather the bodies on or not don't you ??
I'm building my complete dash so it bolts to the body, so I can have all the dash wiring and electrics in and done before the body is on. That's was my biggest electrical hate with the old GTR. Plus I never liked the fact that you have to unbolt a panel to get to the fuses, so there going to be accessible from the dash inside the cab behind a panel you just pull open. I also altered the mould so I now have access panels for the into the foot well, and Good idea of another person on this forum. Means you can get to the wiper motor and the back of the heater/ac unit from under the front clip....
I too hate getting on my back trust me...
PS on the noise thing, fit a LS motor and you'll be allot quieter than any Old SBC....but your never be that quite as the wind noise in a GTR will always be loader than any engine bay at speed...
I'm building my complete dash so it bolts to the body, so I can have all the dash wiring and electrics in and done before the body is on. That's was my biggest electrical hate with the old GTR. Plus I never liked the fact that you have to unbolt a panel to get to the fuses, so there going to be accessible from the dash inside the cab behind a panel you just pull open. I also altered the mould so I now have access panels for the into the foot well, and Good idea of another person on this forum. Means you can get to the wiper motor and the back of the heater/ac unit from under the front clip....
I too hate getting on my back trust me...
PS on the noise thing, fit a LS motor and you'll be allot quieter than any Old SBC....but your never be that quite as the wind noise in a GTR will always be loader than any engine bay at speed...
GTRCLIVE said:
are you going to leave the body unglued so you can remove it at any time later ? eventually your going to have to fit and glue the body for good
Yes - this is what I wondered, the first time Keith posted about this. Keith, will you be removing the ally firewall so that you can glue and rivet the GRP properly - and then replace the ally firewall with all the plumbing on it ? Are you thinking of leaving the rear GRP unglued/unrivetted ? That (IMO) would be a bad idea.
Regards
Edited by pilbeam_mp62 on Friday 15th October 06:45
Moogle said:
In a GTR is the wind noise really that bad? How?
There's video footage some where that shows the rear of the doors on the roof lifting up at speed, this tends to make the cabin noisy like it would be if you rolled down the window in your normal car alittle.... I suspect most people are concentrating on other things at that point though, or just having to much fun to notice...Unlike some I am sure, the prospect of hacking the body around is filled with trepidation and concerns about distortion, possibly unwarranted, but I aint that brave!
Yes - I had thought about removing the dash, however I do not feel qualified, nor confident with GRP mods of this nature especially as I understand from others that the dash contributes to the rigidity of the GRP cab. OK I have hacked some holes in the dash, but nothing as extensive as major surgery....so really GRP is not my forte.
And, so the lesser of the two evils was to find a way of making life as easy as I could (for me)without the subsequent concerns as above.
Thus by creating an ally firewall gave me the ability to plan and build most of the plumbing off-car and then fit to the car with minimal issues and no body cab to worry about.
As for fitting and securing the cab later, no real problem. I designed the ally firewall and cab changes with minimal effort by taking a GRP strip off the bottom-edge of the cab that would normally be riveted to the bottom rail and using it as a spacer between the ally firewall and the frame, gluing and riveting as normal. That give me enough (but tight) room to later squeeze the rear of the cab down to butt up to the strip later. as I have said, I have now trial fitted an all looks well.
When it comes to the final fit, I will glue and rivet the rear of the cab to the ally panel all the way around, and I dare to say probably stronger than the original given the ally is likely to provide extra strength (marginal maybe)..
The interior of the rear of the cab will have another panel fitted to sandwich as much insulation as possible and the false bulhead has been made and ready.
OK, not for some, but it is working for me!
cheers
Keith
Yes - I had thought about removing the dash, however I do not feel qualified, nor confident with GRP mods of this nature especially as I understand from others that the dash contributes to the rigidity of the GRP cab. OK I have hacked some holes in the dash, but nothing as extensive as major surgery....so really GRP is not my forte.
And, so the lesser of the two evils was to find a way of making life as easy as I could (for me)without the subsequent concerns as above.
Thus by creating an ally firewall gave me the ability to plan and build most of the plumbing off-car and then fit to the car with minimal issues and no body cab to worry about.
As for fitting and securing the cab later, no real problem. I designed the ally firewall and cab changes with minimal effort by taking a GRP strip off the bottom-edge of the cab that would normally be riveted to the bottom rail and using it as a spacer between the ally firewall and the frame, gluing and riveting as normal. That give me enough (but tight) room to later squeeze the rear of the cab down to butt up to the strip later. as I have said, I have now trial fitted an all looks well.
When it comes to the final fit, I will glue and rivet the rear of the cab to the ally panel all the way around, and I dare to say probably stronger than the original given the ally is likely to provide extra strength (marginal maybe)..
The interior of the rear of the cab will have another panel fitted to sandwich as much insulation as possible and the false bulhead has been made and ready.
OK, not for some, but it is working for me!
cheers
Keith
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