Dad...there's a pool of Oil under your favourite Rover 620ti
Discussion
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I had only used this car once in the last two months ~ used my other 620ti which is an ongoing project.
I do remember the one time I drove it the PAS ( Auxillary ) Drive belt slipped a few times which affected the 'feel' of the power steering... obviously something up ... maybe worn belt.
Few days ago my son alerted me to the pool of dark stuff under the car. Checked the engine oil level ... fine ... the liquid was all over the auxillary drive belt and on the ground below that area. I suspected a leaking Power Steering Pump... tried to start car ... lack of use meant little life in battery so that went on charge...
A few weeks before I'd purchased two Camshaft Oil Seals and a Timing belt. So, looks like I could do the three jobs together thus saving some time. I've had the car five years and the previous history showed the Timing Belt had been renewed a year before I got the car. I was to see evidence that someone had worked on the Timing.... there was white paint on the CRANKshaft drive sprocket ... not the larger Polyvee belt pulley which is usually marked.
Removed the Alternator to reveal quite a mess near and all over the PAS pump area.... very messy. I remember seeing the odd few drops of dark fluid undert he car in the past and suspected, wrongly as it happens, it was the CAMshaft Seals ... That's why I got a couple when i got the Belt.... two birds with one stone.
I sprayed copious blasts of engine degreasant all over the messy area and hosed it off. This is what it looked like after removing most of the parts to access the Timing belt.
Although they looked sound, I hooked out both CAMshaft seals:~
And fitted the two new ones. They were a very tight fit.
Then turned my attention to the Timing Belt after removing the Polyvee Belt Pulley and Timing Belt cover panels. It was then that I discovered the white Blob of paint at the lowest point of the Timing Belt drive sprocket indicating someone has worked in this area in the apst. It was a useful index. The four OFF SET bolt holes which secure the much larger Polyvee belt drive pulley are also useful confirmation that the CRANKshaft is in the 'safe' position ~ Pistons 1 and four halfway up their bores on the way up, pistons 2 and 3 halfway down on their way down ... All pistons well away from their valves... thus safe.
I relaxed the 10mm Bolt which secure the Timing Belt Tensioner fully as this needs to be pushed away to enable the Timing Belt to be slipped over the Two CAMshaft Pulleys and the CRANKshaft Pulley as shown in these two pictures:~
Here's a visual check that the lower belt sprocket is still in its 'safe' position :~
This next picture shows how I was able to tighten the Tensioner retaining bolt whilst holding the tensioner lightly in place against the new belt ~ it's spring loaded anyway ~ but can move if not held in place ~ held until it is secure using the Socket Drive on the bolt in that restricted space. One of those jobs when you could do with a third hand. It works. I twisted the longest run of the belt in its middle to do that old method belt tension check and yes, I could just twist it through 90 degrees ...
All the plastic belt covers were then replaced ... fiddly rather than difficult job with lots of 8mm bolts in that access restricted confined space...
I then refitted the Big Cranshaft pulley and used my 24volt cordless impact driver to tighten the big 19mm retaining bolt ... The same impact driver used to loosen it.
Then turned my attention to the leaking PAS pump. I had already obtained a good used PAS Pump replacement ~ had it some years actually ~ they always come in handy ~ and put a 22mm hex-socket over the large PAS fluid union on the pump. They are usually very tight .... this one was not! Almost loose ... that's where the stuff was escaping from ! There's quite a pressure in the system there and if that union is not fully tightened... So, there's possibly nothing wrong with the PAS pump ... car has only done 84,000 miles... but, I changed it all the same ... just in case. Then reassembled the various other items... Alternator... Auxillary Drive belt, large engine mount ( engine supported with axle stand whilst that m engine mount removed, reconnected the rubber PAS hose to the low pressure side of the PAS pump and topped up the engine.
Got in car and turned the key ...NOTHING ... ahah ... I had disconnected the Negative Terminal Clamp on the battery ~ sorted that and engine fired up immediately.. Always wise to disconnect the negative battery clamp when working on your cars ...... ALWAYS.
With engine running, turned the steering to distribute, bleed the PAS fluid system ... very squeaky ... very... needed more fluid in the reservoir as it was now empty from the first fill up...That's better ... much quieter now but, not silent. Took car for a ten mile run pulled up and listened again as I turned the steering in the car through the driver's window listening for pump noise ... all nice a silent.. always a relief.
The car was much better to drive than when last used ... Much much better ... TLC makes a big difference... neglect that TLC and things go wrong.
There's still lots of PAS fluid adhering to the parts of the engine below the PAS Pump area...messy ... I will visit my local Jet Wash facility and blast that lot away.
How that big 22mm Union had become loosened to allow fluid to escape has to remain a mystery. Never a sign of a leak in the five years I've had the car and nobody else has ever worked on it during that time. That 22mm Union on the Pump is inaccessible whilst the Alternator is in place. Yes, a mystery...Funny old game cars.
Job's a good un. ... and I still have what appears to be a good spare...
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A Gates Power Transmission timing belt if I'm not mistaken! Used to work in their quality control department, had engines such as yours sat on test beds for weeks/months absolutely flat out, rigged up to a torque convertor to simulate a fully laden car with the exhaust manifold glowing red 
The manufacturers used to supply too many engines so brand new ones would just sit about and never be used, what a waste!
We used to make so many belts for MG Rover, being their OEM supplier, such a shame thats no more because their engines stood up to the best we could throw at them!
The manufacturers used to supply too many engines so brand new ones would just sit about and never be used, what a waste!
We used to make so many belts for MG Rover, being their OEM supplier, such a shame thats no more because their engines stood up to the best we could throw at them!
Rammy76 said:
A Gates Power Transmission timing belt if I'm not mistaken! Used to work in their quality control department, had engines such as yours sat on test beds for weeks/months absolutely flat out, rigged up to a torque convertor to simulate a fully laden car with the exhaust manifold glowing red
The manufacturers used to supply too many engines so brand new ones would just sit about and never be used, what a waste!
We used to make so many belts for MG Rover, being their OEM supplier, such a shame thats no more because their engines stood up to the best we could throw at them!
I can believe that about Rover and MG engines. Tell you why, staff working in a breaker yard would drain the fluids from all the scrap cars and then run the engines flat out without lubricant until they exploded .... Fords, Vauxhalls and what have you soon threw rods etc and stopped running but, for whatver reason, Rover and MG engines subjected to that same abusive treatment rarely expired before the staff got bored with it all and gave up.The manufacturers used to supply too many engines so brand new ones would just sit about and never be used, what a waste!
We used to make so many belts for MG Rover, being their OEM supplier, such a shame thats no more because their engines stood up to the best we could throw at them!
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In my experience over far too many years driving them. Rover's O and T series are basically very strong.
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Yep very strong engines, the little K series was strong too. The timing belt usually gave up before the engine, although things like water pumps etc would sometimes cause problems.
Slightly off topic, I'd really like one of these to have fun in and relive my youth! Whats your thoughts on this one?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2128726.htm
Slightly off topic, I'd really like one of these to have fun in and relive my youth! Whats your thoughts on this one?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2128726.htm
lordlee said:
Excellent write up but are you saying you waited 6 years between belt changes?
Yes, naughty me... 
I know they're replacement age related as well as mileage. The old belt looked like new when I removed it with no evidence of the contamination from the PAS fluid which was spread around by the various rotating pulleys... It runs behind a near fully enclosed Timing Belt enclosure so is mostly protected from the outside...... Actually, in the five years I've had it, the car has only done 15,000 miles. I have other cars and rotate their use. I also have another 620ti with even less miles on its clock.
The new belt I fitted came in the typical MG-Rover Black and silver box.... I wonder how long it had spent on the shelves in the spares store... I mention this with the age related aspect in mind... same could be true of any supplied belt for any car I guess.
The Serpentine Polyvee auxillary drive belt was soaked in PAS fluid .... I degreased it and washed it in warm soapy water ~ came up like new... I renewed it a couple of years ago. I have put a spare in the spare wheel well just in case the one still on the car has had its life shortened from the contamination... and snaps prematurely.
The car is again very nice to drive and goes like a well maintained 620ti should...
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spikeyhead said:
Excellent write up of a belt change, the only thing I would add is to manually turn the engine over gently through a lot of revolutions. Can save bent valves if something has gone wrong.
Excellent comment and good advice. I should have included that.I did exactly that as I always do when disturbing the valve timing gear on any engine.... about four complete revolutions in total ... to be literally on the 'safe' side.
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Rammy76 said:
Yep very strong engines, the little K series was strong too. The timing belt usually gave up before the engine, although things like water pumps etc would sometimes cause problems.
Slightly off topic, I'd really like one of these to have fun in and relive my youth! Whats your thoughts on this one?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2128726.htm
I like them. My son has a near identical looking car with a 1.8 VVC K-Series... You can imagine how that goes... it's faster than his elise ... in a straight line and quite nippy round the curves too as he's modified the suspension and brakes to cope with the extra performance.Slightly off topic, I'd really like one of these to have fun in and relive my youth! Whats your thoughts on this one?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2128726.htm
His 1.8 VVC Metro I bought new for a family memeber back in 1993 and was passed to my son when he was 17. That was nine years ago. It started life as a basic 1.1C ... C = Carb ... not your EFi mullarkey. Over his years of ownership my son has upgraded just about everything on the car but, apart from it's stance and slightly wider alloy wheels and tyres, still looks like it did when it left the Longbridge production lines seveteen years ago. Including the 1.1C badge on the tailgate. Whilst filling up with petrol, anothe motorist came over to my son and said ... No way is that a 1.1 !
Quite so ...
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Rammy76 said:
A Gates Power Transmission timing belt if I'm not mistaken! Used to work in their quality control department, had engines such as yours sat on test beds for weeks/months absolutely flat out, rigged up to a torque convertor to simulate a fully laden car with the exhaust manifold glowing red
You could be right. Here's the MG-Rover Box the T16 Timing Belt came in:~
NiceCupOfTea said:
Great write up, thanks!
You're welcome.... glad it's appreciated.McSam said:
Excellent, I wish more people wrote up this sort of thing! 
Yes, although I've been on this car enthusiasts' sit for close on two years now, I'm puzzled at the paucity of informative DIY pictorials which can often save car owners a lot of money by showing them 'how to' when they are suddenly confronted with work needing doing on their cars. Some of the Invoices friends, neighbours and work colleagues have to cough up for work on their cars is shocking... costs ever spiralling upwards.During the past few weeks, my son and I have done several DIY jobs on our small fleet of cars... strictly amateur but, quite competent. We have calculated that all these jobs would have cost in excess of £2,000 in a pro-workshop ~ more in a main dealership given their current levels of labour charges. Cost of the parts we've obtained neededed for the job ... about £200 .... would have been more but, I have a long standing discount arrangement with my main parts supplier although I'm not in the trade.
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More Rover 620ti stuff ~ this time my son's:~
My son bought a DeCat pipe off ebay ~ Listed for the S1 Elise. He has an S2. However, he discovered the S1 Elise's Cat dimensions and mounting flanges are the same as his workhorse daily driver Rover 620ti.
When working on his Rover's exhaust system a while back, one of the Cat's studs sheered off ~ not surprising as his car is fourteen years old with over 175,000 miles on the clock ~ so was only clamped with two of the three studs and there was a slow blowing exhaust. He removed the Cat today and fitted the DeCat pipe ~ a perfect fit!
No exhaust gas leaks there now. He paid all of £1.50p plus £5.00p post and packing for the DeCat pipe ...
.... good old ebay.He can now sort the sheered stud on the Cat at his leisure.
The old Rover sounded nice as he drove off earlier today ~ I drove it yesterday and it drives as well as my own 620ti with a mere 77,000 miles on the clocks ... 100,000 miles less!
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It was not all plain sailing for me today. My son asked me to help on his car for one of those jobs needing a third hand. In the warm sunshine I suddenly experienced a seering pain in the back of my right knee. Within seconds the pain increased ~ had to be an Insect Sting. I slapped my knee at the back and then shook my trousers and one of my son's friends, who came by for a cuppa and chat, pointed to the wasp crawling on the ground near my feet. Meantime, the pain was increasing and I stepped on the wasp to stun it ~ it was already docile from my slap ~ and I picked it up by the wing. It was about 2/3rds the size of the wasps I've seen all my life and I have been stung by them in the past. Despite its smaller size, it packed a more powerful sting than your average British Wasp... This one was not one of those ... I looked at it closely under a x10 hand lens and could clearly see it was not a 'regular' wasp. The black and yellow colour pattern was different. Another alien invader over here for the 'benefits' no doubt ... Grrrr ...
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NiceCupOfTea said:
LOL - pic of wasp please!
No can do ... it's a former Wasp....an ex-Vespa species... Now well squashed following closer examination... Six hours later the back of my knee is still throbbing! I'm all in favour of a good throb only glad that little sod did not venture further up my right leg ....
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