F1 power question
Discussion
Im currently reading Niki Laudas book on the Turbo era, power figures of 466bhp per litre back then compared to todays normally aspirated engines producing something like 300bhp per litre (720 out of 2.4l V8).
The question is if they went back to turbo power what kind of BHP per L could todays engineers get?
The question is if they went back to turbo power what kind of BHP per L could todays engineers get?
Allyc85 said:
It looks like they will be going back to turbo power in 2013 with a 1.6 unit but from initial reports power levels will be around the 600 mark compared to the 700-800we have now 
Although there is also talk in this week's Autosport about retaining the current V8s into 2013 and beyond, on cost grounds.Allyc85 said:
It looks like they will be going back to turbo power in 2013 with a 1.6 unit but from initial reports power levels will be around the 600 mark compared to the 700-800we have now
I can't believe that anybody in their right minds thinks this is the right way forward, that will make F1 lower-powered than quite a few other formulae out there.we already have the cars so low powered that the big fast corners are not effectively non-events for them (yes, I know tyres/aero have not helped here), dropping yet more power is not exactly going to make them any more fun to watch.
would be all for it if they could run 900-1000hp again, by all means restrict the total fuel per race (as they did back in the turbo era) but look what fun that produced, with people having to manage fuel, whist others were balls out towards the end of the races.
Scuffers said:
would be all for it if they could run 900-1000hp again, by all means restrict the total fuel per race (as they did back in the turbo era) but look what fun that produced, with people having to manage fuel, whist others were balls out towards the end of the races.
I'd rather they just said "You know what ? In the world scheme of things F1 cars themselves don't produce much CO2, and all the other stuff we do associated with the F1 circus is at worst carbon neutral, so we're going to give the cars 1000bhp and just them them all have at it for the entire race !!".I was thinking this the other day while reading a chapter of a Lauda book (To hell and back).
It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced. I realise on cost grounds they dont want a development war, but when enginers were pushing out over 1200hp all those years ago, i don't see why we arn't hitting at least 1000hp now. When a usable reliable supercar such as the veyron is putting out 200+ more horsepower than an F1 car it just doesn't seem right to me.
Personally i'd limit it purely on amount of fuel allowed. They must get to the end of the race with 60% of the fuel they currently use, any engine configuration is allowed. Then we would see true usable enhancements to fuel consumption filtering down to road cars, aswell as variation in design and once they have adjusted, big hikes in power.
I want to see the worlds best in cars that have terrifying amounts of power to drive, but that just isn't the case at the moment.
It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced. I realise on cost grounds they dont want a development war, but when enginers were pushing out over 1200hp all those years ago, i don't see why we arn't hitting at least 1000hp now. When a usable reliable supercar such as the veyron is putting out 200+ more horsepower than an F1 car it just doesn't seem right to me.
Personally i'd limit it purely on amount of fuel allowed. They must get to the end of the race with 60% of the fuel they currently use, any engine configuration is allowed. Then we would see true usable enhancements to fuel consumption filtering down to road cars, aswell as variation in design and once they have adjusted, big hikes in power.
I want to see the worlds best in cars that have terrifying amounts of power to drive, but that just isn't the case at the moment.
Forbes82 said:
When a usable reliable supercar such as the veyron is putting out 200+ more horsepower than an F1 car it just doesn't seem right to me.
You are comparing an 8 litre quad turbo W16 to a 2.4 litre NA V8. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. A big Cat diesel produces a great deal more power than an F1 mill. So what?Forbes82 said:
I was thinking this the other day while reading a chapter of a Lauda book (To hell and back).
It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced. I realise on cost grounds they dont want a development war, but when enginers were pushing out over 1200hp all those years ago, i don't see why we arn't hitting at least 1000hp now. When a usable reliable supercar such as the veyron is putting out 200+ more horsepower than an F1 car it just doesn't seem right to me.
Personally i'd limit it purely on amount of fuel allowed. They must get to the end of the race with 60% of the fuel they currently use, any engine configuration is allowed. Then we would see true usable enhancements to fuel consumption filtering down to road cars, aswell as variation in design and once they have adjusted, big hikes in power.
I want to see the worlds best in cars that have terrifying amounts of power to drive, but that just isn't the case at the moment.
I think limiting the amount of fuel used during a race is dangerous territory - you'll end up having "races" whereby the drivers are forced to drive to set fuel consumption numbers, a la CART at the turn of the decade. It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced. I realise on cost grounds they dont want a development war, but when enginers were pushing out over 1200hp all those years ago, i don't see why we arn't hitting at least 1000hp now. When a usable reliable supercar such as the veyron is putting out 200+ more horsepower than an F1 car it just doesn't seem right to me.
Personally i'd limit it purely on amount of fuel allowed. They must get to the end of the race with 60% of the fuel they currently use, any engine configuration is allowed. Then we would see true usable enhancements to fuel consumption filtering down to road cars, aswell as variation in design and once they have adjusted, big hikes in power.
I want to see the worlds best in cars that have terrifying amounts of power to drive, but that just isn't the case at the moment.
Additionally, I think that allowing manufacturers freedom to develop whatever engines they saw fit with the only set specification being the amount of fuel used during a race would send development costs through the roof (albeit, you could keep the enviro-mentalists happy as that type of technology development would ultimately trickle down into road cars) - at least with a set engine configuration, you can keep a relatively reasonable lid on costs.
I've got no problem with turbo power returning to F1, but I do think it will take more than just an overhaul of the engine regs to produce the sort of racing witnessed in the 80's again. My personal opinion? Limit aero grip to 10-20% of what is seen today and then see what happens... It has been mentioned on this forum before, but I also think that having two very diverse compounds of tyre would mix things up too - one super hard, but not very grippy, and the other super soft and tacky as you like, but wears out in a small number of laps.
These are just my opinions though, and may in no way reflect those of Bernie, Jean, or anyone else on this forum!
Allyc85 said:
It looks like they will be going back to turbo power in 2013 with a 1.6 unit but from initial reports power levels will be around the 600 mark compared to the 700-800we have now
That would be rediculous whos going to make the engines SEAT? Ok go back to small turbo Engines but for gods sake let them go mad with the BHP, if the FIA want to hold them back do it through fuel economy im sure the enineers could do some wonderfull stuff nowadays.Forbes82 said:
I was thinking this the other day while reading a chapter of a Lauda book (To hell and back).
It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced.
Which car/s have you driven then?It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced.
[/Biting his lip]
GTP rpm said:
Forbes82 said:
I was thinking this the other day while reading a chapter of a Lauda book (To hell and back).
It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced.
Which car/s have you driven then?It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced.
[/Biting his lip]
compare a current F1 car with one from the turbo era or WSC cars of the 80's...
can you imagine any of the current drivers matching somebody like Stefan Bellof in the cars he drove....
Scuffers said:
GTP rpm said:
Forbes82 said:
I was thinking this the other day while reading a chapter of a Lauda book (To hell and back).
It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced.
Which car/s have you driven then?It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced.
[/Biting his lip]
compare a current F1 car with one from the turbo era or WSC cars of the 80's...
can you imagine any of the current drivers matching somebody like Stefan Bellof in the cars he drove....
SamHH said:
Scuffers said:
GTP rpm said:
Forbes82 said:
I was thinking this the other day while reading a chapter of a Lauda book (To hell and back).
It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced.
Which car/s have you driven then?It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced.
[/Biting his lip]
compare a current F1 car with one from the turbo era or WSC cars of the 80's...
can you imagine any of the current drivers matching somebody like Stefan Bellof in the cars he drove....
these days can you imagine them without all the 'support' staff running about after them etc....
Scuffers said:
SamHH said:
Scuffers said:
GTP rpm said:
Forbes82 said:
I was thinking this the other day while reading a chapter of a Lauda book (To hell and back).
It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced.
Which car/s have you driven then?It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced.
[/Biting his lip]
compare a current F1 car with one from the turbo era or WSC cars of the 80's...
can you imagine any of the current drivers matching somebody like Stefan Bellof in the cars he drove....
these days can you imagine them without all the 'support' staff running about after them etc....
/Bites his tongue.
Agree. Too many fast corners are flat out (relative) non-events. Of course safety is something to consider and slower corners do require skill. Yet, it is also regrettable other formulae around the world really don't care about co2 and will have more power. Engine differentiation sometimes seems more exciting that all these pointless aero tricks - f-ducts and flexy wings which are not pertinent to road cars really.
Gaz. said:
Scuffers said:
GTP rpm said:
Forbes82 said:
I was thinking this the other day while reading a chapter of a Lauda book (To hell and back).
It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced.
Which car/s have you driven then?It seems ridiculous to me how easy these modern cars are to drive, Aero and mechanical grip must have gone through the roof since the turbo era, yet power is drastically reduced.
[/Biting his lip]
compare a current F1 car with one from the turbo era or WSC cars of the 80's...
can you imagine any of the current drivers matching somebody like Stefan Bellof in the cars he drove....
TBH I'd imagine a fair chunk of the grid would manage with a 1980's F1 car, I'm sure Hamilton would have happily stayed out in that MP4/4 until it ran out of fuel.
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