Foreign aid an idea
Discussion
We currently give away millions in foreign aid to 3rd world countries.
This will always happen due to governments wanting to be seen to care
How about another way.
Instead of sending cash we do stuff.
Like build a nice big hospital ship in the UK stuff it full of UK nationals and then it can sail to 3rd world country helping the locals and the money comes back to the UK via the contracts to run the ship and its employees.
This will always happen due to governments wanting to be seen to care
How about another way.
Instead of sending cash we do stuff.
Like build a nice big hospital ship in the UK stuff it full of UK nationals and then it can sail to 3rd world country helping the locals and the money comes back to the UK via the contracts to run the ship and its employees.
thinfourth2 said:
We currently give away millions in foreign aid to 3rd world countries.
This will always happen due to governments wanting to be seen to care
How about another way.
Instead of sending cash we do stuff.
Like build a nice big hospital ship in the UK stuff it full of UK nationals and then it can sail to 3rd world country helping the locals and the money comes back to the UK via the contracts to run the ship and its employees.
But that way the corruption stays in the UK and doesn't get exported.........This will always happen due to governments wanting to be seen to care
How about another way.
Instead of sending cash we do stuff.
Like build a nice big hospital ship in the UK stuff it full of UK nationals and then it can sail to 3rd world country helping the locals and the money comes back to the UK via the contracts to run the ship and its employees.
Whatever gave you the strange idea that foreign aid was about caring? Strange concept!
My understanding was that up until quite recently, the UK didn't send hard cash but sent resources in aid. It's only in the last 13-14 years that we just stumped up cash.
I believe the bulk of US aid is done in credits also. (Wasn't there something that when the US sent hard cash it sent black dollars - so if they turned up at a Swiss exchange desk, questions were asked??)
I believe the bulk of US aid is done in credits also. (Wasn't there something that when the US sent hard cash it sent black dollars - so if they turned up at a Swiss exchange desk, questions were asked??)
Can someone with real knowledge of the situation tell me that this foreign aid malarkey is actually a good idea? All I can think is that it (our/tax payers' money) never reaches the poor who need it but instead goes on banquets, nuclear weapons, landmines, AK-47s, Mercedes S600 AMGs... if any politicians out there read this, just reply with a very convincing lie.
Edited by ShadownINja on Sunday 17th October 12:25
Pesty said:
thinfourth2 said:
We currently give away Billions in foreign aid to 3rd world countries.
EFA£5.6b
I don't care if it's bribes or to give an African kid a felt tip pen. Aid should be given in the event of a natural disaster (food/shelter/transport) and nothing else. Exactly how has the hundreds of billions in aid changed Africa in the last decade.
Elroy Blue said:
Pesty said:
thinfourth2 said:
We currently give away Billions in foreign aid to 3rd world countries.
EFA£5.6b
I don't care if it's bribes or to give an African kid a felt tip pen. Aid should be given in the event of a natural disaster (food/shelter/transport) and nothing else. Exactly how has the hundreds of billions in aid changed Africa in the last decade.
AK-47's and RPG's are not cheap ya know!
On the subject of aid to Africa, my idea is very simple.
The EU and US's combined resources should be used to build a road and rail network throughout Africa. The continent should be opened up fully to commerce, and commerce is a two way thing.
If you look at the west, one of the things that has brought it a long way is the ability to move goods and people. And a road and rail network is what brought around that movement. Look at many countries that are unsuccessful and you also see an alignment in their policy to allow people and goods to move freely.
Such an investment by the west would bring a lasting change to these countries, (eg transport of goods and people) and in the medium term provide a huge amount of employment during the building of the networks. The money paid to the workers would go directly into the economies of the countries concerned and bring up the levels from poverty slowly but surely, a whole lot more than paying for the occasional orphanage here and there.
By opening up Africa it would also bring in tourism more easily, people in the west would finally be able to reach places easily, again, bringing money and trade as they went - and you only need to see the armies of French/German/Italian RVs that are ready to roll each summer to see that it tourism would also be successful.
The EU and US's combined resources should be used to build a road and rail network throughout Africa. The continent should be opened up fully to commerce, and commerce is a two way thing.
If you look at the west, one of the things that has brought it a long way is the ability to move goods and people. And a road and rail network is what brought around that movement. Look at many countries that are unsuccessful and you also see an alignment in their policy to allow people and goods to move freely.
Such an investment by the west would bring a lasting change to these countries, (eg transport of goods and people) and in the medium term provide a huge amount of employment during the building of the networks. The money paid to the workers would go directly into the economies of the countries concerned and bring up the levels from poverty slowly but surely, a whole lot more than paying for the occasional orphanage here and there.
By opening up Africa it would also bring in tourism more easily, people in the west would finally be able to reach places easily, again, bringing money and trade as they went - and you only need to see the armies of French/German/Italian RVs that are ready to roll each summer to see that it tourism would also be successful.
tinman0 said:
On the subject of aid to Africa, my idea is very simple.
The EU and US's combined resources should be used to build a road and rail network throughout Africa. The continent should be opened up fully to commerce, and commerce is a two way thing.
If you look at the west, one of the things that has brought it a long way is the ability to move goods and people. And a road and rail network is what brought around that movement. Look at many countries that are unsuccessful and you also see an alignment in their policy to allow people and goods to move freely.
Such an investment by the west would bring a lasting change to these countries, (eg transport of goods and people) and in the medium term provide a huge amount of employment during the building of the networks. The money paid to the workers would go directly into the economies of the countries concerned and bring up the levels from poverty slowly but surely, a whole lot more than paying for the occasional orphanage here and there.
By opening up Africa it would also bring in tourism more easily, people in the west would finally be able to reach places easily, again, bringing money and trade as they went - and you only need to see the armies of French/German/Italian RVs that are ready to roll each summer to see that it tourism would also be successful.
This.The EU and US's combined resources should be used to build a road and rail network throughout Africa. The continent should be opened up fully to commerce, and commerce is a two way thing.
If you look at the west, one of the things that has brought it a long way is the ability to move goods and people. And a road and rail network is what brought around that movement. Look at many countries that are unsuccessful and you also see an alignment in their policy to allow people and goods to move freely.
Such an investment by the west would bring a lasting change to these countries, (eg transport of goods and people) and in the medium term provide a huge amount of employment during the building of the networks. The money paid to the workers would go directly into the economies of the countries concerned and bring up the levels from poverty slowly but surely, a whole lot more than paying for the occasional orphanage here and there.
By opening up Africa it would also bring in tourism more easily, people in the west would finally be able to reach places easily, again, bringing money and trade as they went - and you only need to see the armies of French/German/Italian RVs that are ready to roll each summer to see that it tourism would also be successful.
Imagine the job creation in a continental construction company. Seems like a far more sensible idea than just handing over £10bn and not knowing where the hell it is going.
tinman0 said:
sensible stuff about roads and railways
Thats exactly what was attempted in both the colonial era and the immediate post colonial one. The problem is maintaining such a complex infrastructure. Unfortunately experience has shown that large complex projects of this sort in Africa either have to be managed by foreigners (be they Western, Russian, Chinese or whatever) or they succumb to neglect and corruption. If you want an answer to this problem in the current polity I can't give you one. There once was an answer. It was called colonialism and then neo-colonialism. Apparently thats bad mmmkay.I await flaming for being racist or some such label. I'm not.
BruceV8 said:
tinman0 said:
sensible stuff about roads and railways
Thats exactly what was attempted in both the colonial era and the immediate post colonial one. The problem is maintaining such a complex infrastructure. Unfortunately experience has shown that large complex projects of this sort in Africa either have to be managed by foreigners (be they Western, Russian, Chinese or whatever) or they succumb to neglect and corruption. If you want an answer to this problem in the current polity I can't give you one. There once was an answer. It was called colonialism and then neo-colonialism. Apparently thats bad mmmkay. We are being conditioned to give the money un-conditionally, which is what I think most people find unacceptable. A pan-African highway could never happen because of all the self serving luddites that control these countries. I would generously suggest that the ruling elites in Africa have aligned their wealth as a proportion of the wealth of the country.
It's just a pity it has to be 100%.
tinman0 said:
BruceV8 said:
tinman0 said:
sensible stuff about roads and railways
Thats exactly what was attempted in both the colonial era and the immediate post colonial one. The problem is maintaining such a complex infrastructure. Unfortunately experience has shown that large complex projects of this sort in Africa either have to be managed by foreigners (be they Western, Russian, Chinese or whatever) or they succumb to neglect and corruption. If you want an answer to this problem in the current polity I can't give you one. There once was an answer. It was called colonialism and then neo-colonialism. Apparently thats bad mmmkay. We are being conditioned to give the money un-conditionally, which is what I think most people find unacceptable. A pan-African highway could never happen because of all the self serving luddites that control these countries. I would generously suggest that the ruling elites in Africa have aligned their wealth as a proportion of the wealth of the country.
It's just a pity it has to be 100%.
t and some of it is dirt track. OT it's also cited as a major vector for the transmission of disease, particularly AIDS(all those randy truckers like the prossies).Apart from the neo-colonial mudslinging which would happen, the contracts would end up in the hands of yahoos like KBR or Bechtel, and it would end up being the most expensive road in the world. Railways are a more realistic proposition as the costs are lower, more easily controlled and the work easily done by mostly unskilled and therefore local labour, but it still isn't realistic politically.
Elroy Blue said:
Pesty said:
thinfourth2 said:
We currently give away Billions in foreign aid to 3rd world countries.
EFA£5.6b
I don't care if it's bribes or to give an African kid a felt tip pen. Aid should be given in the event of a natural disaster (food/shelter/transport) and nothing else. Exactly how has the hundreds of billions in aid changed Africa in the last decade.
Just throwing an endless supply of free money at a continent is most definitely not the answer...
The trouble with building roads and railways is there's nothing to send. They'll just fall apart in a few years, like most foreign aid projects do.
Europe started to develop not when it built railways, roads or ports, but when people started to learn and invent things that would improve their lives. Until this catches on in Africa no amount of foreign aid will help them in the slightest, and the people we "save" now will just create more people to save until there's nothing left to give them.
Europe started to develop not when it built railways, roads or ports, but when people started to learn and invent things that would improve their lives. Until this catches on in Africa no amount of foreign aid will help them in the slightest, and the people we "save" now will just create more people to save until there's nothing left to give them.
7mike said:
Didn't Brown sign us up for some agreement obliging us to pay X% of GDP on
keeping half of Scotland in work /over paid Oxfam execs in the lifestyle they have become accustomed to/back handers to the Chinese/ paying for trade union jollies fighting poverty around the globe?
yes as did a lot of other countries. We aree the only ones on track to keep that commitmentPesty said:
7mike said:
Didn't Brown sign us up for some agreement obliging us to pay X% of GDP on
keeping half of Scotland in work /over paid Oxfam execs in the lifestyle they have become accustomed to/back handers to the Chinese/ paying for trade union jollies fighting poverty around the globe?
yes as did a lot of other countries. We aree the only ones on track to keep that commitmentAJS- said:
The trouble with building roads and railways is there's nothing to send. They'll just fall apart in a few years, like most foreign aid projects do.
Europe started to develop not when it built railways, roads or ports, but when people started to learn and invent things that would improve their lives. Until this catches on in Africa no amount of foreign aid will help them in the slightest, and the people we "save" now will just create more people to save until there's nothing left to give them.
Agreed, but unpaved roads make transport next to impossible. It's all very well having a road network that has missing bits, but those missing bits let the whole thing down. They may as well be road blocks.Europe started to develop not when it built railways, roads or ports, but when people started to learn and invent things that would improve their lives. Until this catches on in Africa no amount of foreign aid will help them in the slightest, and the people we "save" now will just create more people to save until there's nothing left to give them.
For instance, Romania is mainly made up of 2 lane roads, many in a bad state but still paved. I can't imagine a lorry doing more than 200-250 on those roads per day. Take an unpaved road, and surely you are down to less than 200 miles per day. Compared to a European motorway where a lorry can do as much mileage as the tacho allows.
You can see the difference in timings if you drive from Tangier to Mkech. Take the original (paved) two lane road vs taking the new motorway. The original road is made up of camionettes and old lorries, whilst the new motorway is made up of modern 40t+ Scanias and such like. The progress you make on the 2 lane road is negligible, whereas Tangier to Mkech is easily doable in a few hours.
Even if new motorways weren't the solution, they would still pump in vast amounts of money into the economies properly. People with jobs spending money in their economies, rather than handouts and small projects.
So what if a few European/American construction companies make profit out of such a project? At the end of the day, where did the money come from? Who is getting a share of the profits in corporation tax? And so forth.
As for African truck drivers killing themselves with AIDS, nothing you can do about it. Truck drivers across the world shag prostitutes.
Maybe if people had something to live for, they wouldn't take such a chance with their health?
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