How to complete an overseas car sale without fraud or scam?
Discussion
Hi there
I would like to know if anyone has completed a successful overseas sale of their car? Sounds like a silly question, but with all the possible frauds involved, this is proving to be extremely hard!
I have a possible 'Buyer' from Hong Kong that I have spoken to many times over the phone over the last few weeks and he is asking all the right questions and exhibiting all the right concerns about our mutual financial safety. My initial instinct is that this is a scam. As we spoke a bit more on the phone and the questions got more detailed, I considered that indeed this might be genuine. The 'Buyer' was planning to come over from Hong Kong to view the car and said that in order to initiate a Electronic Bank Transfer (he belongs to Bank of China) when he comes over to the UK, he would need my full name, bank details and a copy of my registration document. Instantly, I refused to give this information and told him that I will only be happy to give him this info when we and if we meet in person. The next day he emails me and says that he wants to pay by 'Demand Draft' or 'Bankers Draft', almost forgetting that we had talked about making the payment the day before, via Electronic Bank Transfer. I instantly refused to accept any form of Bank Draft and explained the reasons why (ie. they can be forged so well that even banks can be fooled - until they actually try to clear the funds, that the money can even appear in my account, only to be withdrawn by the issuing bank weeks later due to fraud etc).
We kept emailing back and forth but each time he kept preferring the Bankers Draft option...which I just wont accept! Unfortunately, a Hong Kong to UK Electronic Bank Transfer can take 3-7 days to arrive!
My 'Buyer' is concerned that as he can only come over to the UK for 2 days that if he pays me by Electronic Bank Transfer after properly viewing the car, he wont be in the UK long enough to confirm the money is in my account. Essentially, he pays me and has to leave before I can safely release the car to him. He is rightly concerned that I could just disappear with his money and my car. I, on the other hand am concerned that if he pays me by Bankers draft etc, this can easily be forged etc.
We are at a stalemate, but with him wanting to buy and me wanting to sell.
How can we complete this transaction (if its not a scam) so that both parties have full financial safety and security? Has anyone completed a successful transaction like this?
I would like to know if anyone has completed a successful overseas sale of their car? Sounds like a silly question, but with all the possible frauds involved, this is proving to be extremely hard!
I have a possible 'Buyer' from Hong Kong that I have spoken to many times over the phone over the last few weeks and he is asking all the right questions and exhibiting all the right concerns about our mutual financial safety. My initial instinct is that this is a scam. As we spoke a bit more on the phone and the questions got more detailed, I considered that indeed this might be genuine. The 'Buyer' was planning to come over from Hong Kong to view the car and said that in order to initiate a Electronic Bank Transfer (he belongs to Bank of China) when he comes over to the UK, he would need my full name, bank details and a copy of my registration document. Instantly, I refused to give this information and told him that I will only be happy to give him this info when we and if we meet in person. The next day he emails me and says that he wants to pay by 'Demand Draft' or 'Bankers Draft', almost forgetting that we had talked about making the payment the day before, via Electronic Bank Transfer. I instantly refused to accept any form of Bank Draft and explained the reasons why (ie. they can be forged so well that even banks can be fooled - until they actually try to clear the funds, that the money can even appear in my account, only to be withdrawn by the issuing bank weeks later due to fraud etc).
We kept emailing back and forth but each time he kept preferring the Bankers Draft option...which I just wont accept! Unfortunately, a Hong Kong to UK Electronic Bank Transfer can take 3-7 days to arrive!
My 'Buyer' is concerned that as he can only come over to the UK for 2 days that if he pays me by Electronic Bank Transfer after properly viewing the car, he wont be in the UK long enough to confirm the money is in my account. Essentially, he pays me and has to leave before I can safely release the car to him. He is rightly concerned that I could just disappear with his money and my car. I, on the other hand am concerned that if he pays me by Bankers draft etc, this can easily be forged etc.
We are at a stalemate, but with him wanting to buy and me wanting to sell.
How can we complete this transaction (if its not a scam) so that both parties have full financial safety and security? Has anyone completed a successful transaction like this?
AndrewW-G said:
He doesnt need to open a UK HSBC account, he just needs to open an account with HSBC (or with another bank with offices in HK & UK) and will then be able to transfer the cash internaly within that bank far quicker than a bank to bank transfer.
Really? Do you have any idea how long those transfers take?I sold a Scuderia to a dealer in Japan from here in Gibraltar.
To start with I didn't believe the guy was real, thought it was a scam.
A few things you could do:
Check the email source ties in to where he says he is. You can check IP's etc.
DO NOT take a bank draft. The only way to do this deal is a transfer, if he won't do that walk away. The guy I dealt with transferred to my bank and my bank then sent a request to his bank to confirm with their client that it was indeed him that sent the funds. (Just to check his account was not hacked)
I guess it also took him to trust me. He never saw the car, only photos and I organised to ship the car to him after he paid me! I'm a trustworthy guy though, many aren't!
If you want further safety you might want to move the money out of the original account it went to once you have it.
Be very careful. If the guy likes your car why can't he pay you a deposit and transfer the rest after he has seen it.
To start with I didn't believe the guy was real, thought it was a scam.
A few things you could do:
Check the email source ties in to where he says he is. You can check IP's etc.
DO NOT take a bank draft. The only way to do this deal is a transfer, if he won't do that walk away. The guy I dealt with transferred to my bank and my bank then sent a request to his bank to confirm with their client that it was indeed him that sent the funds. (Just to check his account was not hacked)
I guess it also took him to trust me. He never saw the car, only photos and I organised to ship the car to him after he paid me! I'm a trustworthy guy though, many aren't!
If you want further safety you might want to move the money out of the original account it went to once you have it.
Be very careful. If the guy likes your car why can't he pay you a deposit and transfer the rest after he has seen it.
marky1 said:
I sold a Scuderia to a dealer in Japan from here in Gibraltar.
To start with I didn't believe the guy was real, thought it was a scam.
A few things you could do:
Check the email source ties in to where he says he is. You can check IP's etc.
DO NOT take a bank draft. The only way to do this deal is a transfer, if he won't do that walk away. The guy I dealt with transferred to my bank and my bank then sent a request to his bank to confirm with their client that it was indeed him that sent the funds. (Just to check his account was not hacked)
I guess it also took him to trust me. He never saw the car, only photos and I organised to ship the car to him after he paid me! I'm a trustworthy guy though, many aren't!
If you want further safety you might want to move the money out of the original account it went to once you have it.
Be very careful... something sounds fishy to me.
To start with I didn't believe the guy was real, thought it was a scam.
A few things you could do:
Check the email source ties in to where he says he is. You can check IP's etc.
DO NOT take a bank draft. The only way to do this deal is a transfer, if he won't do that walk away. The guy I dealt with transferred to my bank and my bank then sent a request to his bank to confirm with their client that it was indeed him that sent the funds. (Just to check his account was not hacked)
I guess it also took him to trust me. He never saw the car, only photos and I organised to ship the car to him after he paid me! I'm a trustworthy guy though, many aren't!
If you want further safety you might want to move the money out of the original account it went to once you have it.
Be very careful... something sounds fishy to me.
Not sure if this helps or not.
I just sold my car to a chap from Germany. He viewed the car, said he would buy and transfer the money. 3 Days later cash hit my bank account, I called him to tell him it arrived and he flew over and picked the car up.
Simple, but it needs an element of trust from the buyer.
I just sold my car to a chap from Germany. He viewed the car, said he would buy and transfer the money. 3 Days later cash hit my bank account, I called him to tell him it arrived and he flew over and picked the car up.
Simple, but it needs an element of trust from the buyer.
marky1 said:
By the way there is no way a transfer from Hong Kong takes 3 to 7 days. These days you can do same day transfers, the guy is talking out his arse. You should have cleared funds the day after he sends.
I thought the same thing, but this was my UK bank telling me!!! Apparently, for a large sum like this, it can be subject to checks etc. It sounds ridiculous!!Edited by marky1 on Sunday 17th October 17:38
How much are we talking here?
Do you know anyone in HK you could trust, or does he know anyone in the UK he can trust?
Consider an escrow company, or use an established firm to hold the money in trust. If the amount is large enough the added cost might justify it.
If he really wants to bring in hard cash, he must be serious. Anything over 10k Euros must legally be declared when flying into the UK from HK. If he wants to risk not declaring, that's his problem, but with evidence of intention to purchase, it should be fine. Get him to arrange to bring in Sterling rather than HKD - makes life easier on your end. Meet in a branch of your bank with your car and keys in hand, confirm clearance, job done. Bank might/will flag you due to money laundering regs etc - just prove where it came from and all should be well.
Do you know anyone in HK you could trust, or does he know anyone in the UK he can trust?
Consider an escrow company, or use an established firm to hold the money in trust. If the amount is large enough the added cost might justify it.
If he really wants to bring in hard cash, he must be serious. Anything over 10k Euros must legally be declared when flying into the UK from HK. If he wants to risk not declaring, that's his problem, but with evidence of intention to purchase, it should be fine. Get him to arrange to bring in Sterling rather than HKD - makes life easier on your end. Meet in a branch of your bank with your car and keys in hand, confirm clearance, job done. Bank might/will flag you due to money laundering regs etc - just prove where it came from and all should be well.
Also, if you are responsible for shipping the car etc, suggest you do some research on the rules and red tape surrounding this. Personally, I would get him to sign the V5 (not sure if you can stick in a non-UK address - if not, get him to arrange a UK address), transfer the car to him, leave him the keys and let him sort out getting the car to HK (remembering he will need insurance if we wants to drive the car to port).
Edited by -DeaDLocK- on Sunday 17th October 18:42
-DeaDLocK- said:
How much are we talking here?
Do you know anyone in HK you could trust, or does he know anyone in the UK he can trust?
Consider an escrow company, or use an established firm to hold the money in trust. If the amount is large enough the added cost might justify it.
If he really wants to bring in hard cash, he must be serious. Anything over 10k Euros must legally be declared when flying into the UK from HK. If he wants to risk not declaring, that's his problem, but with evidence of intention to purchase, it should be fine. Get him to arrange to bring in Sterling rather than HKD - makes life easier on your end. Meet in a branch of your bank with your car and keys in hand, confirm clearance, job done. Bank might/will flag you due to money laundering regs etc - just prove where it came from and all should be well.
Thank you so much for your information.Do you know anyone in HK you could trust, or does he know anyone in the UK he can trust?
Consider an escrow company, or use an established firm to hold the money in trust. If the amount is large enough the added cost might justify it.
If he really wants to bring in hard cash, he must be serious. Anything over 10k Euros must legally be declared when flying into the UK from HK. If he wants to risk not declaring, that's his problem, but with evidence of intention to purchase, it should be fine. Get him to arrange to bring in Sterling rather than HKD - makes life easier on your end. Meet in a branch of your bank with your car and keys in hand, confirm clearance, job done. Bank might/will flag you due to money laundering regs etc - just prove where it came from and all should be well.
Is there no limit to the amount of cash you can bring in? What sort of proof would I need to supply to the bank to gain access to the money?
First rule is that Google is your friend. I just did some quick searches and all the information is readily available from the respective agencies' web sites. It's probably faster for you to just give that a go rather than waiting for some answers here.
His money will only be seized by customs if they suspect illegal source or destination, in which case they can only hold it for a maximum of 48 hours anyway, during which time the court has to get involved if they want to hold the funds any longer. However, as long as the funds can be demonstrated as clean, it should be no problem. Trying to not declare smells of dirtty behaviour, so I suggest he declares. And I would suggest a taxi from the airport, rather than risking it on public transport.
On your end, the bank will also need to ascertain whether the money is clean.
In both cases, just show all evidence of the sale. Print out copies of the advertisement and all correspondence between the two of you. Draft out a "contract" or a receipt between the two of you to demonstrate the sale. Show pictures of the car. Show the V5 and complete it at the counter of the bank. Print other current ads which show similar cars going for similar prices. Basically get anything ready to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the funds are legit. But really, I am probably going too far with the above examples, though it is always best to be prepared. Best thing you can do is call up your bank and ask them what do you need to prove that the sudden £XXk deposit of cash into your account is clean.
PS - Going to bed now. 2:00am here in Malaysia. All the best!
His money will only be seized by customs if they suspect illegal source or destination, in which case they can only hold it for a maximum of 48 hours anyway, during which time the court has to get involved if they want to hold the funds any longer. However, as long as the funds can be demonstrated as clean, it should be no problem. Trying to not declare smells of dirtty behaviour, so I suggest he declares. And I would suggest a taxi from the airport, rather than risking it on public transport.
On your end, the bank will also need to ascertain whether the money is clean.
In both cases, just show all evidence of the sale. Print out copies of the advertisement and all correspondence between the two of you. Draft out a "contract" or a receipt between the two of you to demonstrate the sale. Show pictures of the car. Show the V5 and complete it at the counter of the bank. Print other current ads which show similar cars going for similar prices. Basically get anything ready to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the funds are legit. But really, I am probably going too far with the above examples, though it is always best to be prepared. Best thing you can do is call up your bank and ask them what do you need to prove that the sudden £XXk deposit of cash into your account is clean.
PS - Going to bed now. 2:00am here in Malaysia. All the best!
Edited by -DeaDLocK- on Sunday 17th October 18:50
[quote=marky1]By the way there is no way a transfer from Hong Kong takes 3 to 7 days. These days you can do same day transfers, the guy is talking out his arse. You should have cleared funds the day after he sends.
Only Euros are able to be sent same day ( in the uk at least). However it will not take 7 days. 3 days should be more than enough.
Have him transfer the funds to your solicitor ( helps if your with a good sized firm). He arrives, agrees to buy. They move funds to your account by same day transfer.
Done
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 17th October 17:38
[Only Euros are able to be sent same day ( in the uk at least). However it will not take 7 days. 3 days should be more than enough.
Have him transfer the funds to your solicitor ( helps if your with a good sized firm). He arrives, agrees to buy. They move funds to your account by same day transfer.
Done
Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff