Engine & gearbox advice

[edb49]

I want to get an engine & gearbox for a mid-engined RWD transverse layout, e.g. same as Atom/Elise. I am aiming for 180-200bhp at the minimum of cost, with the option of going up to 300bhp later. So been thinking about the obvious Duratec, but also things like the VAG petrol 2ltr that always seems to be turbo'd, etc.

I want to get a brand-new 0 miles engine, I haven't found many places selling them except for these:

http://www.part-box.com/cosworth-2.3lt-performance...

But that's pretty expensive... any suggestions?

[singlecoil]

Expensive, but not outrageous, I would have thought. Mind me asking why it has to be new, that is going to both narrow the choice and affect the price?

If it didn't have to be new, then the VAG 1.8T turbo is indeed the obvious choice. I did actually invest in a Cat C A3 as a project of my own, and was impressed with its evident usability in this application. That project was cancelled, though, and I am now working on something else.

[edb49]

singlecoil said:

Mind me asking why it has to be new, that is going to both narrow the choice and affect the price?

Yeah, I know it narrows the choice a lot. I know you can get engines from the parts departments of most companies, but they're ££££. I am sure there are some that will sell you an engine at a reasonable rate though, and just wondering who they are.

[Stubby Pete]

For tuned Ford, try powertorque and Omex as well as Cosworth.

300bhp is quite a target for anything without stupid blower/turbo or money. Mitsi EVO (7-10)? Not sure on the gearbox layout i.e. if the rear drive can be blocked, but engine is transverse.

VAG can be tuned well, I know someone with a TT pushing well over 350bhp.

[edb49]

Stubby Pete said:

For tuned Ford, try powertorque and Omex as well as Cosworth.

300bhp is quite a target for anything without stupid blower/turbo or money.

Thanks - will take a look at those two.

The 300bhp target was with adding FI (or if the engine already had it, a bit of remapping/work.)

[Steve_D]

edb49 said:

.......The 300bhp target was with adding FI (or if the engine already had it, a bit of remapping/work.)

Just adding fuel injection will not increase horsepower nor will remapping existing FI to any great extent.

Steve

[qdos]

edb49 said:

I want to get an engine & gearbox for a mid-engined RWD transverse layout, e.g. same as Atom/Elise. I am aiming for 180-200bhp at the minimum of cost, with the option of going up to 300bhp later. So been thinking about the obvious Duratec, but also things like the VAG petrol 2ltr that always seems to be turbo'd, etc.

I want to get a brand-new 0 miles engine, I haven't found many places selling them except for these:

http://www.part-box.com/cosworth-2.3lt-performance...

But that's pretty expensive... any suggestions?

Have you actually got a car in mind you want to fit it in? As you've pretty much got the spec for the Deronda only in the Deronda the engine's in the right configuration ie longitudinal as you'll find in proper race cars.

We're running 300bhp out of a VAG 1.8 turbo in our demonstrator, 667kg it's pretty awsome, passed two lambos at Silverstone a few weeks back. You're welcome to have a try and we're at Exeter this weekend if you want to chat. We've got a 250bhp unit that's barely done any miles. We can get brand new VAG units for you but to be honest you're better spending your money on an older used engine and you can do an awful lot more for your money but hey if you want to spend it we can get you new!

[singlecoil]

Steve_D said:

edb49 said:

.......The 300bhp target was with adding FI (or if the engine already had it, a bit of remapping/work.)

Just adding fuel injection will not increase horsepower nor will remapping existing FI to any great extent.

Steve

Could he have meant Forced Induction?

[edb49]

singlecoil said:

Steve_D said:

edb49 said:

.......The 300bhp target was with adding FI (or if the engine already had it, a bit of remapping/work.)

Just adding fuel injection will not increase horsepower nor will remapping existing FI to any great extent.

Steve

Could he have meant Forced Induction?

Yes, I did mean forced induction... sorry for not being clearer. Preferably S/C, but if the engine is T/C initially then that will fix the route.

[Moogle]

I wonder how much the Fiat 1.4 MultiAir engines are in crate form (if even available)....

[edb49]

qdos said:

We can get brand new VAG units for you but to be honest you're better spending your money on an older used engine and you can do an awful lot more for your money but hey if you want to spend it we can get you new!

From what I've seen, all engines are available new if you go to the parts department with a big enough cheque! But what I was trying to find out is what crate engines are available at sensible costs... how much is an Audi 1.8T out of interest?

Thanks,

Ed

[singlecoil]

At the risk of repeating myself, why does it have to be new? Do all the other parts, such as the gearbox, need to be new too? How about fully rebuilt/upgraded by a specialist?

[tribbles]

I got an Audi 1.8T from a crashed Seat Leon for £1200 (although no ECU), and the gearbox from a TT for about £500, from memory.

[edb49]

singlecoil said:

At the risk of repeating myself, why does it have to be new? Do all the other parts, such as the gearbox, need to be new too? How about fully rebuilt/upgraded by a specialist?

New is a preference... if I can get something brand new at a reasonable price that would be my preference.

[singlecoil]

edb49 said:

singlecoil said:

At the risk of repeating myself, why does it have to be new? Do all the other parts, such as the gearbox, need to be new too? How about fully rebuilt/upgraded by a specialist?

New is a preference... if I can get something brand new at a reasonable price that would be my preference.

The problem with that is all the ancillaries, everything from the alternator bracket through crankshaft pulleys and flywheels to manifolds, these are all things that a car manufacturer wouldn't think to provide with a replacement engine. You need to buy from someone who actually sets out to provide engines for use in other cars, and I don't know of any in Europe that do that. US yes, but those of course will be V8s.

Only option I'm aware of (always happy to learn of other options) is to do a deal like Westfield have done with Vauxhall for their 1.6 turbo engine, but obviously there is a question of quantity.

[edb49]

Yep, there are quite a few US V8 options but not really what I'm after. There must be more in the UK, surely!

[singlecoil]

edb49 said:

There must be more in the UK, surely!

Why must there be? Who would pay the extra for new (apart from yourself of course)? Where is the market for crate engines?

[edb49]

singlecoil said:

edb49 said:

There must be more in the UK, surely!

Why must there be? Who would pay the extra for new (apart from yourself of course)? Where is the market for crate engines?

I can reply the reverse of your logic to the States... why do they sell crate engines if there is no market?

[singlecoil]

edb49 said:

singlecoil said:

edb49 said:

There must be more in the UK, surely!

Why must there be? Who would pay the extra for new (apart from yourself of course)? Where is the market for crate engines?

I can reply the reverse of your logic to the States... why do they sell crate engines if there is no market?

Because over there, there is a market, a big one. Here there isn't. I realise that that is a drag from your point of view, but I doubt it bothers many other people. Maybe it's an oak and acorn situation- one has to come first, and I can't imagine any car manufacturer going tot he trouble of putting an engine package together unless he thoguht there was a decent sized market for it.

[bogwoppit]

I can't imagine it's impossible to get one, just don't expect to find it retailed to consumers or cheap. I imagine there are plenty of race teams, tuners etc who get new engines to modify. They probably speak directly to the manufacturer to source them.