Wiki Leaks - Iraq Civilians deaths 60,000+

[Fittster]

The new logs detail how:

• US authorities failed to investigate hundreds of reports of abuse, torture, rape and even murder by Iraqi police and soldiers whose conduct appears to be systematic and normally unpunished.

• A US helicopter gunship involved in a notorious Baghdad incident had previously killed Iraqi insurgents after they tried to surrender.

• More than 15,000 civilians died in previously unknown incidents. US and UK officials have insisted that no official record of civilian casualties exists but the logs record 66,081 non-combatant deaths out of a total of 109,000 fatalities.

The numerous reports of detainee abuse, often supported by medical evidence, describe prisoners shackled, blindfolded and hung by wrists or ankles, and subjected to whipping, punching, kicking or electric shocks. Six reports end with a detainee's apparent death.

As recently as December the Americans were passed a video apparently showing Iraqi army officers executing a prisoner in Tal Afar, northern Iraq. The log states: "The footage shows approximately 12 Iraqi army soldiers. Ten IA soldiers were talking to one another while two soldiers held the detainee. The detainee had his hands bound … The footage shows the IA soldiers moving the detainee into the street, pushing him to the ground, punching him and shooting him."

source

Think that rather discredits the argument that although there were no WMDs at least the lot in power are better than Saddam. The arm and police we have put in place are just as big a bunch of thugs.

[petemurphy]

prisoners shackled and blindfolded - who'd have guessed

[catso]

Fittster said:

The arm and police we have put in place are just as big a bunch of thugs.

And it will always be so.

[tinman0]

Fittster said:

• A US helicopter gunship involved in a notorious Baghdad incident had previously killed Iraqi insurgents after they tried to surrender.

Their surrender wasn't accepted.

Sorry, but I fail to have much sympathy with terrorists (because thats what they are) suddenly realising they are outgunned, and playing the surrender card. Wear a uniform and then you can surrender. Otherwise you are an outlaw and deserve to be treated accordingly.

"Hey, I've killed 20 people, please could I surrender and be treated with dignity because I'm still a human being? I have rights." Get fked.

[Halb]

petemurphy said:

prisoners shackled and blindfolded, tortured and shot- who'd have guessed

EFA

[petemurphy]

they'll be leaking that people got hurt in world war 2 next - its war its st which is why it shouldnt of happened. there are no rules in war its not a boxing game.

[JensenA]

tinman0 said:

Fittster said:

• A US helicopter gunship involved in a notorious Baghdad incident had previously killed Iraqi insurgents after they tried to surrender.

Their surrender wasn't accepted.

Sorry, but I fail to have much sympathy with terrorists (because thats what they are) suddenly realising they are outgunned, and playing the surrender card. Wear a uniform and then you can surrender. Otherwise you are an outlaw and deserve to be treated accordingly.

"Hey, I've killed 20 people, please could I surrender and be treated with dignity because I'm still a human being? I have rights." Get fked.

Why are they Terrorists?? A foreign power invades your country, the local population fight against them and that makes them terrorists??
So what were the French Resistance movement in WW2? Terrorists?
Let's just suppose that Iraq invaded Britain because it didn't approve of our leader. Would you just stand by whilst the Iraqi troops marched arrogantly around your town, stopping and searching you, behaving disrespectfully to everyone they came across. Why is it that we in the West think that we have the moral superiority that gives us the right to tell another country that they are wrong, and that they should run their country in a way that we in the west think is 'correct'?

[AndrewW-G]

I wonder if any of the Labour supporters / voters on here, truly understand that the blood of 60,000+ innocent people is on their hands. . . . . . . .They lied to parliament to justify their invasion and YOU voted for them.

[Fittster]

AndrewW-G said:

I wonder if any of the Labour supporters / voters on here, truly understand that the blood of 60,000+ innocent people is on their hands. . . . . . . .They lied to parliament to justify their invasion and YOU voted for them.

Did the conservatives vote against the War?

[Hedders]

JensenA said:

tinman0 said:

Fittster said:

• A US helicopter gunship involved in a notorious Baghdad incident had previously killed Iraqi insurgents after they tried to surrender.

Their surrender wasn't accepted.

Sorry, but I fail to have much sympathy with terrorists (because thats what they are) suddenly realising they are outgunned, and playing the surrender card. Wear a uniform and then you can surrender. Otherwise you are an outlaw and deserve to be treated accordingly.

"Hey, I've killed 20 people, please could I surrender and be treated with dignity because I'm still a human being? I have rights." Get fked.

Why are they Terrorists?? A foreign power invades your country, the local population fight against them and that makes them terrorists??
So what were the French Resistance movement in WW2? Terrorists?
Let's just suppose that Iraq invaded Britain because it didn't approve of our leader. Would you just stand by whilst the Iraqi troops marched arrogantly around your town, stopping and searching you, behaving disrespectfully to everyone they came across. Why is it that we in the West think that we have the moral superiority that gives us the right to tell another country that they are wrong, and that they should run their country in a way that we in the west think is 'correct'?

Well said!

[Fittster]

petemurphy said:

they'll be leaking that people got hurt in world war 2 next - its war its st which is why it shouldnt of happened. there are no rules in war its not a boxing game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

And if we are ignoring that don't complain when people plant bombs on tube trains.

[Odie]

a cant make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, but it appears someone is a very bad cook..

[AndrewW-G]

Fittster said:

AndrewW-G said:

I wonder if any of the Labour supporters / voters on here, truly understand that the blood of 60,000+ innocent people is on their hands. . . . . . . .They lied to parliament to justify their invasion and YOU voted for them.

Did the conservatives vote against the War?

Were they told the truth by Labour before the vote . . . . . . . . . .

[Elroy Blue]

JensenA said:

tinman0 said:

Fittster said:

• A US helicopter gunship involved in a notorious Baghdad incident had previously killed Iraqi insurgents after they tried to surrender.

Their surrender wasn't accepted.

Sorry, but I fail to have much sympathy with terrorists (because thats what they are) suddenly realising they are outgunned, and playing the surrender card. Wear a uniform and then you can surrender. Otherwise you are an outlaw and deserve to be treated accordingly.

"Hey, I've killed 20 people, please could I surrender and be treated with dignity because I'm still a human being? I have rights." Get fked.

Why are they Terrorists?? A foreign power invades your country, the local population fight against them and that makes them terrorists??

The people who released this report have a Political agenda, just like everyone else.
So what were the French Resistance movement in WW2? Terrorists?
Let's just suppose that Iraq invaded Britain because it didn't approve of our leader. Would you just stand by whilst the Iraqi troops marched arrogantly around your town, stopping and searching you, behaving disrespectfully to everyone they came across. Why is it that we in the West think that we have the moral superiority that gives us the right to tell another country that they are wrong, and that they should run their country in a way that we in the west think is 'correct'?

The French resistance didn't set out to wipe out a significant section of the French population because they were the wrong type of French.

The people who released this report have a political agenda, just like everyone else.

Edited by Elroy Blue on Saturday 23 October 13:21

[Hedders]

Guam said:

However good luck with bringing Iraqi's to book on this.


Cheers

Saddam was an Iraqi, they had no problem prosecuting him!

[Fittster]

AndrewW-G said:

Fittster said:

AndrewW-G said:

I wonder if any of the Labour supporters / voters on here, truly understand that the blood of 60,000+ innocent people is on their hands. . . . . . . .They lied to parliament to justify their invasion and YOU voted for them.

Did the conservatives vote against the War?

Were they told the truth by Labour before the vote . . . . . . . . . .

Did they change their tune after the new the truth?

[tinman0]

Hedders said:

JensenA said:

tinman0 said:

Fittster said:

• A US helicopter gunship involved in a notorious Baghdad incident had previously killed Iraqi insurgents after they tried to surrender.

Their surrender wasn't accepted.

Sorry, but I fail to have much sympathy with terrorists (because thats what they are) suddenly realising they are outgunned, and playing the surrender card. Wear a uniform and then you can surrender. Otherwise you are an outlaw and deserve to be treated accordingly.

"Hey, I've killed 20 people, please could I surrender and be treated with dignity because I'm still a human being? I have rights." Get fked.

Why are they Terrorists?? A foreign power invades your country, the local population fight against them and that makes them terrorists??
So what were the French Resistance movement in WW2? Terrorists?
Let's just suppose that Iraq invaded Britain because it didn't approve of our leader. Would you just stand by whilst the Iraqi troops marched arrogantly around your town, stopping and searching you, behaving disrespectfully to everyone they came across. Why is it that we in the West think that we have the moral superiority that gives us the right to tell another country that they are wrong, and that they should run their country in a way that we in the west think is 'correct'?

Well said!

Because these people aren't fighting an occupying force. They are fighting for Iraq to become a theocracy, sponsored by Iran. It serves no purpose for Iran to have a secular neighbour again. Likewise with Afghanistan.

The "occupying force" is merely the force that is preventing a small minority of people over turning the wishes of the larger population that has had democracy returned to it after a rather recent brutal history.

As for the "insurgents", but lets call them by their real name, terrorists, are unable to blow up American troops, they generally turn their ire on the local population, the local Police forces, and the local troops.

[AndrewW-G]

Fittster said:

AndrewW-G said:

Fittster said:

AndrewW-G said:

I wonder if any of the Labour supporters / voters on here, truly understand that the blood of 60,000+ innocent people is on their hands. . . . . . . .They lied to parliament to justify their invasion and YOU voted for them.

Did the conservatives vote against the War?

Were they told the truth by Labour before the vote . . . . . . . . . .

Did they change their tune after the new the truth?

It doesn’t matter which way you try to spin this, Labour lied to parliament about Iraq and its time you accepted that and stopped trying to weasel your way out of taking responsibility for your actions.

[Fittster]

AndrewW-G said:

Fittster said:

AndrewW-G said:

Fittster said:

AndrewW-G said:

I wonder if any of the Labour supporters / voters on here, truly understand that the blood of 60,000+ innocent people is on their hands. . . . . . . .They lied to parliament to justify their invasion and YOU voted for them.

Did the conservatives vote against the War?

Were they told the truth by Labour before the vote . . . . . . . . . .

Did they change their tune after the new the truth?

It doesn’t matter which way you try to spin this, Labour lied to parliament about Iraq and its time you accepted that and stopped trying to weasel your way out of taking responsibility for your actions.

Can I just point out that I think Blue, Red and Yellow tie wearing monkey are all scum and the mainly problem is this system. The idea that changing the monkeys in charge will resolve the issue the country faces is farcical.

[AndrewW-G]

Fittster said:

AndrewW-G said:

Fittster said:

AndrewW-G said:

Fittster said:

AndrewW-G said:

I wonder if any of the Labour supporters / voters on here, truly understand that the blood of 60,000+ innocent people is on their hands. . . . . . . .They lied to parliament to justify their invasion and YOU voted for them.

Did the conservatives vote against the War?

Were they told the truth by Labour before the vote . . . . . . . . . .

Did they change their tune after the new the truth?

It doesn’t matter which way you try to spin this, Labour lied to parliament about Iraq and its time you accepted that and stopped trying to weasel your way out of taking responsibility for your actions.

Can I just point out that I think Blue, Red and Yellow tie wearing monkey are all scum and the mainly problem is this system. The idea that changing the monkeys in charge will resolve the issue the country faces is farcical.

More weasel