Views on next generation Turbo'd M cars?
Discussion
Had a discussion about this not too long ago regarding the next generation M5 using a twin turbo'd V8 as apposed to the V10. This seems to have upset quite a few people, mainly "purists" as my friend put it, almost like a form of blasphemy to divert away from traditionally NA engines, what are your views on this?
Personally, I have absolutely NO problem with it what so ever.
Personally, I have absolutely NO problem with it what so ever.
I personaly don't have a problem with it either....
But, I also understand why the 'purists' are anti such a move.
However, given the legislation now in place, and the even more draconian ones coming by 2015..... BMW (as well as the other makers) don't really have much of choice..... unless the 'purists' would rather they simply stopped building ///M cars alltogether of course..... and they would be just as much up in arms about that too....
But, I also understand why the 'purists' are anti such a move.
However, given the legislation now in place, and the even more draconian ones coming by 2015..... BMW (as well as the other makers) don't really have much of choice..... unless the 'purists' would rather they simply stopped building ///M cars alltogether of course..... and they would be just as much up in arms about that too....
I think it's a bit disssapointing that M Division have gone down this route. The N/A high reving engine have been their niche. We have had "unofficial " Turbo M cars for a while now in the form of Alpinas. It's going to be harder for the M Division to stand out now.
Price difference and power out put with the Alpinas is going to be interesting.
Sorry for spelling etc on iPhone
S99ANE
Price difference and power out put with the Alpinas is going to be interesting.
Sorry for spelling etc on iPhone
S99ANE
rassi said:
Rog B said:
Had a discussion about this not too long ago
Exactly - so why do you want to open this can of worms again? 
Valid point about the Alpinas, it'll definately make the future interesting that's for sure.
For those that are against it, what alternatives are there for sticking with the N/A route, would there, for example be a market for an even bigger capacity engine over the current one, taking into account emissions. I'm a big fan of turbo'd cars anyway, so mashing the 2 together sounds ideal.
I'm not too pleased that M Division will tread this path, but as others have said, there is little choice in the matter.
For the M5, turbo power will be a welcome addition in all honesty. The M5 has always been about heartstopping grunt in a warm and cuddly package, to wit, a pair of blowers, will only serve to bolster this repertoire.
The M3 on the other hand, is far more sensitive. The idea of a turbo hanging off the side of the block in my CSL for example, leaves me feeling quite nauseous. Nevertheless, the M3 has evolved. No longer is is a balls-out homologation road racer. Now it has morphed into a sports GT with room for the kids and their crap; it's inevitable that a turbo will find it's way under the bonnet and I guess that's just something we'll have to accept. I doubt the package will deviate too much from the current E92 and given M Division's reputation for making some of the best engines in the world, I am confident that whatever donkey eventually finds its way into the next M3, will be a little cracker. Just not one with a nape-prickling induction note.
For the M5, turbo power will be a welcome addition in all honesty. The M5 has always been about heartstopping grunt in a warm and cuddly package, to wit, a pair of blowers, will only serve to bolster this repertoire.
The M3 on the other hand, is far more sensitive. The idea of a turbo hanging off the side of the block in my CSL for example, leaves me feeling quite nauseous. Nevertheless, the M3 has evolved. No longer is is a balls-out homologation road racer. Now it has morphed into a sports GT with room for the kids and their crap; it's inevitable that a turbo will find it's way under the bonnet and I guess that's just something we'll have to accept. I doubt the package will deviate too much from the current E92 and given M Division's reputation for making some of the best engines in the world, I am confident that whatever donkey eventually finds its way into the next M3, will be a little cracker. Just not one with a nape-prickling induction note.
Edited by Great Pretender on Tuesday 26th October 11:48
Rog B said:
For those that are against it, what alternatives are there for sticking with the N/A route
Close to none in reality.After Euro VI introduction in Jan 2015, I would think there will be almost no n/a petrol engines by any manufacturer of any capacity.... even small petrol engines will be turbo.
So, say your current 2.0 n/a petrol engine family saloon will be likely a 1.6t and the traditional 1.6 n/a will be 1.3 or 1.4t.
This is already happening now.
aeropilot said:
Rog B said:
For those that are against it, what alternatives are there for sticking with the N/A route
Close to none in reality.After Euro VI introduction in Jan 2015, I would think there will be almost no n/a petrol engines by any manufacturer of any capacity.... even small petrol engines will be turbo.
So, say your current 2.0 n/a petrol engine family saloon will be likely a 1.6t and the traditional 1.6 n/a will be 1.3 or 1.4t.
This is already happening now.
For some reason this news decided me in my deliberations over my E46 M3 replacement. I was very tempted by a Focus RS (brand new etc etc, sensible (ish) choice, cheaper to run than M Power) or 335i BUT. Now the E92 is the last proper M Car with high reving engine 'scream', I am waiting for E92 M3 2009 models to hit my c35k price limit.
Then I will get a low milage one an hold onto it for as long as possible......
TBH few cars can lug a family about, go like stink, look great and make me smile like these M Cars can and I am worried that the new genre will not offer the thrills. Speed yes I am sure. The 335i is faster than my M3, but I would not swap it now I have my head straight!
Then I will get a low milage one an hold onto it for as long as possible......
TBH few cars can lug a family about, go like stink, look great and make me smile like these M Cars can and I am worried that the new genre will not offer the thrills. Speed yes I am sure. The 335i is faster than my M3, but I would not swap it now I have my head straight!
Great Pretender said:
I'm not too pleased that M Division will tread this path, but as others have said, there is little choice in the matter.
For the M5, turbo power will be a welcome addition in all honesty. The M5 has always been about heartstopping grunt in a warm and cuddly package, to wit, a pair of blowers, will only serve to bolster this repertoire.
The M3 on the other hand, is far more sensitive. The idea of a turbo hanging off the side of the block in my CSL for example, leaves me feeling quite nauseous. Nevertheless, the M3 has evolved. No longer is is a balls-out homologation road racer. Now it has morphed into a sports GT with room for the kids and their crap; it's inevitable that a turbo will find it's way under the bonnet and I guess that's just something we'll have to accept. I doubt the package will deviate too much from the current E92 and given M Division's reputation for making some of the best engines in the world, I am confident that whatever donkey eventually finds its way into the next M3, will be a little cracker. Just not one with a nape-prickling induction note.
nail on headFor the M5, turbo power will be a welcome addition in all honesty. The M5 has always been about heartstopping grunt in a warm and cuddly package, to wit, a pair of blowers, will only serve to bolster this repertoire.
The M3 on the other hand, is far more sensitive. The idea of a turbo hanging off the side of the block in my CSL for example, leaves me feeling quite nauseous. Nevertheless, the M3 has evolved. No longer is is a balls-out homologation road racer. Now it has morphed into a sports GT with room for the kids and their crap; it's inevitable that a turbo will find it's way under the bonnet and I guess that's just something we'll have to accept. I doubt the package will deviate too much from the current E92 and given M Division's reputation for making some of the best engines in the world, I am confident that whatever donkey eventually finds its way into the next M3, will be a little cracker. Just not one with a nape-prickling induction note.
Edited by Great Pretender on Tuesday 26th October 11:48
I too am saddened by the fact this is happening but what can they do...?
can you make a twin turbo engine with a nape-prickling scream?
Rog B said:
k15tox said:
just wait until the remaps atart coming out.........
That's the great part, turbo'd from the factory so considerably less outlay for a serious power hike. im getting sick to death of all these mapped turbo hot hatches......bloody quick.
think i need to bolt 2 tubbs on my ls1........
Not happy about it - I love the V8 in my M3, just love the fact that you can really rev it and there is still lots of shove at the top end, I have been a big fan of Honda VTEC engines and had my fair share of them. Been there done that with the Scoobies and EVO's, the NA engines just do it for me in no way a turbo can, even a ballistic missile type.
I've had a 10 plate 335i m-sport for the past 2 weeks and it's quick but there is some lag and it does feel like a turbocharged car, not a big fan at all and if the new gen M3's have this nature then I will be keeping my V8 for a very long time.
I've had a 10 plate 335i m-sport for the past 2 weeks and it's quick but there is some lag and it does feel like a turbocharged car, not a big fan at all and if the new gen M3's have this nature then I will be keeping my V8 for a very long time.
Zero7 said:
Not happy about it - I love the V8 in my M3, just love the fact that you can really rev it and there is still lots of shove at the top end, I have been a big fan of Honda VTEC engines and had my fair share of them. Been there done that with the Scoobies and EVO's, the NA engines just do it for me in no way a turbo can, even a ballistic missile type.
I've had a 10 plate 335i m-sport for the past 2 weeks and it's quick but there is some lag and it does feel like a turbocharged car, not a big fan at all and if the new gen M3's have this nature then I will be keeping my V8 for a very long time.
can I ask if you will be keeping the M3 after it is out of warranty then?I've had a 10 plate 335i m-sport for the past 2 weeks and it's quick but there is some lag and it does feel like a turbocharged car, not a big fan at all and if the new gen M3's have this nature then I will be keeping my V8 for a very long time.
The reason I ask is that I got mine planning to keep it for a few months, of course I know realise that was a ridiculous thing to think and I really do not want to let it go.
At the same time, the thought of the possible bills once it is out of warranty could persuade me to part with it.
I echo the comments made above - will really miss high revving NA engines.
The decision in future will be whether to stick with an older NA M car and take the consequences for maintenance costs or to buy a new turbo'd M car.
Not sure what I will do but I still think BMW will make the best sporting saloons and coupes in their price range with the best engines.
The decision in future will be whether to stick with an older NA M car and take the consequences for maintenance costs or to buy a new turbo'd M car.
Not sure what I will do but I still think BMW will make the best sporting saloons and coupes in their price range with the best engines.
chippy17 said:
Great Pretender said:
I'm not too pleased that M Division will tread this path, but as others have said, there is little choice in the matter.
For the M5, turbo power will be a welcome addition in all honesty. The M5 has always been about heartstopping grunt in a warm and cuddly package, to wit, a pair of blowers, will only serve to bolster this repertoire.
The M3 on the other hand, is far more sensitive. The idea of a turbo hanging off the side of the block in my CSL for example, leaves me feeling quite nauseous. Nevertheless, the M3 has evolved. No longer is is a balls-out homologation road racer. Now it has morphed into a sports GT with room for the kids and their crap; it's inevitable that a turbo will find it's way under the bonnet and I guess that's just something we'll have to accept. I doubt the package will deviate too much from the current E92 and given M Division's reputation for making some of the best engines in the world, I am confident that whatever donkey eventually finds its way into the next M3, will be a little cracker. Just not one with a nape-prickling induction note.
nail on headFor the M5, turbo power will be a welcome addition in all honesty. The M5 has always been about heartstopping grunt in a warm and cuddly package, to wit, a pair of blowers, will only serve to bolster this repertoire.
The M3 on the other hand, is far more sensitive. The idea of a turbo hanging off the side of the block in my CSL for example, leaves me feeling quite nauseous. Nevertheless, the M3 has evolved. No longer is is a balls-out homologation road racer. Now it has morphed into a sports GT with room for the kids and their crap; it's inevitable that a turbo will find it's way under the bonnet and I guess that's just something we'll have to accept. I doubt the package will deviate too much from the current E92 and given M Division's reputation for making some of the best engines in the world, I am confident that whatever donkey eventually finds its way into the next M3, will be a little cracker. Just not one with a nape-prickling induction note.
Edited by Great Pretender on Tuesday 26th October 11:48
I too am saddened by the fact this is happening but what can they do...?
can you make a twin turbo engine with a nape-prickling scream?
Great Pretender said:
chippy17 said:
Great Pretender said:
I'm not too pleased that M Division will tread this path, but as others have said, there is little choice in the matter.
For the M5, turbo power will be a welcome addition in all honesty. The M5 has always been about heartstopping grunt in a warm and cuddly package, to wit, a pair of blowers, will only serve to bolster this repertoire.
The M3 on the other hand, is far more sensitive. The idea of a turbo hanging off the side of the block in my CSL for example, leaves me feeling quite nauseous. Nevertheless, the M3 has evolved. No longer is is a balls-out homologation road racer. Now it has morphed into a sports GT with room for the kids and their crap; it's inevitable that a turbo will find it's way under the bonnet and I guess that's just something we'll have to accept. I doubt the package will deviate too much from the current E92 and given M Division's reputation for making some of the best engines in the world, I am confident that whatever donkey eventually finds its way into the next M3, will be a little cracker. Just not one with a nape-prickling induction note.
nail on headFor the M5, turbo power will be a welcome addition in all honesty. The M5 has always been about heartstopping grunt in a warm and cuddly package, to wit, a pair of blowers, will only serve to bolster this repertoire.
The M3 on the other hand, is far more sensitive. The idea of a turbo hanging off the side of the block in my CSL for example, leaves me feeling quite nauseous. Nevertheless, the M3 has evolved. No longer is is a balls-out homologation road racer. Now it has morphed into a sports GT with room for the kids and their crap; it's inevitable that a turbo will find it's way under the bonnet and I guess that's just something we'll have to accept. I doubt the package will deviate too much from the current E92 and given M Division's reputation for making some of the best engines in the world, I am confident that whatever donkey eventually finds its way into the next M3, will be a little cracker. Just not one with a nape-prickling induction note.
Edited by Great Pretender on Tuesday 26th October 11:48
I too am saddened by the fact this is happening but what can they do...?
can you make a twin turbo engine with a nape-prickling scream?
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