Traffic jam etiquette
Discussion
Thought up this one while sitting in a queue of traffic for an hour last night.
The que was very slow moving so most cars were creeping along as the car in front moved. Occasionally the cars in front of me waited until the gap in front of them was 15-20m before moving on.
My thoughts are that each car that leaves a gap is extending the length of the traffic jam by 15-20m so causing more disruption further back. If say the average length of a car plus gap to the next car is 7m then if each car left a gap of 20m it would make the traffic jam a lot longer (here's your opportunity mathematicians, do your stuff).
Does this annoy other people?
Spelling edited to avoid further Faulty Towers references..
The que was very slow moving so most cars were creeping along as the car in front moved. Occasionally the cars in front of me waited until the gap in front of them was 15-20m before moving on.
My thoughts are that each car that leaves a gap is extending the length of the traffic jam by 15-20m so causing more disruption further back. If say the average length of a car plus gap to the next car is 7m then if each car left a gap of 20m it would make the traffic jam a lot longer (here's your opportunity mathematicians, do your stuff).
Does this annoy other people?
Spelling edited to avoid further Faulty Towers references..
Edited by Big E 118 on Wednesday 27th October 11:44
leaving a gap means you dont have to keep stopping and starting becuase quite often by the time you've crawled up to the back of the car in front they are then moving again and so is much kinder on the car and uses less fuel.
what personally annoys me is when iv left a bit of a gap and then someone dives into it. feel like writing them a stern letter...
what personally annoys me is when iv left a bit of a gap and then someone dives into it. feel like writing them a stern letter...
The only thing that annoys me is the stupid twerps who queue in the lane that is remaining open, we shall refer to this lane as lane 1, for over a mile before the jam and then refuse to allow cars to merge in turn as they see the drivers that have followed the signage and queued in both lanes as pushing in.
It is more annoying for the drivers of Range Rover Sports with limo black tints if you drive past their puny attempt to force you to stop by straddling the white lines, especially when the resultant abuse from them is met with a smile, wave and perhaps a little kiss blown in their direction.
It is more annoying for the drivers of Range Rover Sports with limo black tints if you drive past their puny attempt to force you to stop by straddling the white lines, especially when the resultant abuse from them is met with a smile, wave and perhaps a little kiss blown in their direction.
maccas99 said:
Agree with the ^. I leave a gap so I don't have to dip the clutch so often...
Me too. It will only increase the total queue length by the largest gap that someone leaves, because as soon as that gap gets closed up, everyone behind moves forward at the same time to close the gaps. It actually results in the whole queue moving in waves, but no slower than it would do otherwise (unless people pull into the gaps from other lanes) and it's certainly better for your clutch. Is a lot of congestion not caused by excessive chain braking? i.e the car infront brakes 10%, car behind brakes a little bit more at 20% and then the next car brakes at 30%.
Leaving a decent gap (assuming no one jumps into it) might improve general traffic flow and the "stop start" queuing style. Its one of my theories I've worked on in the many queues I sit in as I pass Manchester four times a week.
Leaving a decent gap (assuming no one jumps into it) might improve general traffic flow and the "stop start" queuing style. Its one of my theories I've worked on in the many queues I sit in as I pass Manchester four times a week.
Eviltad said:
Is a lot of congestion not caused by excessive chain braking? i.e the car infront brakes 10%, car behind brakes a little bit more at 20% and then the next car brakes at 30%.
Leaving a decent gap (assuming no one jumps into it) might improve general traffic flow and the "stop start" queuing style. Its one of my theories I've worked on in the many queues I sit in as I pass Manchester four times a week.
Correct. One of these motorway cops style programs did a test on it once where they tried to initiate a traffic jam by doing this, only needed 3 or 4 cars to slow down 10 mph and the knock on effect was that some cars were virtually stopping.Leaving a decent gap (assuming no one jumps into it) might improve general traffic flow and the "stop start" queuing style. Its one of my theories I've worked on in the many queues I sit in as I pass Manchester four times a week.
Eviltad said:
Is a lot of congestion not caused by excessive chain braking? i.e the car infront brakes 10%, car behind brakes a little bit more at 20% and then the next car brakes at 30%.
Leaving a decent gap (assuming no one jumps into it) might improve general traffic flow and the "stop start" queuing style. Its one of my theories I've worked on in the many queues I sit in as I pass Manchester four times a week.
If you drive through some Specs camera zones you will probably notice traffic flows more smoothly than the same roads without specs. My theory of why this happens is because the sensible people stick to the limit and don't change lanes and the idiots don't get a chance to disrupt flow with unecessary braking and lane changes, though the threat of a speeding fine also nullifies the effect of MLM or OLMs on causing congestion to build as frustrated people get closer to them and subsequently have to brake harder. Leaving a decent gap (assuming no one jumps into it) might improve general traffic flow and the "stop start" queuing style. Its one of my theories I've worked on in the many queues I sit in as I pass Manchester four times a week.
ktards jabbing the brakes every 5secs is more annoying than those leaving a gap. Traffic flows better that way too. Thus reducing the number of stationary cars which actually makes the jam shorter (maybe).I try and keep a constant speed, rather than stopping and starting, so it does mean gaps open up in front of me sometimes. I do it to save fuel as much as anything, but I wish everybody would do it so we didn't have the congestion in the first place.
It's one of those curious perceptions that people moving into a lane in front of you costs you time, and I don't really believe it. There are far too many variables for it to make a difference to your journey. A red traffic light later on would add ten times more time onto your trip, for example.
The thing is, if everybody tried to maintain a constant speed then there wouldn't be as much congestion. It's driving right up to a bumper then stopping that causes tailbacks.
I do wonder whether we should teach this stuff as part of the driving test. We are a traffic-congested country, but it would be possible to ease the problem through various driving techniques.
It's one of those curious perceptions that people moving into a lane in front of you costs you time, and I don't really believe it. There are far too many variables for it to make a difference to your journey. A red traffic light later on would add ten times more time onto your trip, for example.
The thing is, if everybody tried to maintain a constant speed then there wouldn't be as much congestion. It's driving right up to a bumper then stopping that causes tailbacks.
I do wonder whether we should teach this stuff as part of the driving test. We are a traffic-congested country, but it would be possible to ease the problem through various driving techniques.
Eviltad said:
Is a lot of congestion not caused by excessive chain braking? i.e the car infront brakes 10%, car behind brakes a little bit more at 20% and then the next car brakes at 30%.
Leaving a decent gap (assuming no one jumps into it) might improve general traffic flow and the "stop start" queuing style. Its one of my theories I've worked on in the many queues I sit in as I pass Manchester four times a week.
Thats not a theory , it proven by tests and on the road , "ghost" jams IIRC.Leaving a decent gap (assuming no one jumps into it) might improve general traffic flow and the "stop start" queuing style. Its one of my theories I've worked on in the many queues I sit in as I pass Manchester four times a week.
Chris_w666 said:
The only thing that annoys me is the stupid twerps who queue in the lane that is remaining open, we shall refer to this lane as lane 1, for over a mile before the jam and then refuse to allow cars to merge in turn as they see the drivers that have followed the signage and queued in both lanes as pushing in.
It is more annoying for the drivers of Range Rover Sports with limo black tints if you drive past their puny attempt to force you to stop by straddling the white lines, especially when the resultant abuse from them is met with a smile, wave and perhaps a little kiss blown in their direction.
or even worse when 2 lorries sit side by side blocking both lanes over a mile before the filter. But that's the problem nobody understands the concept of filtering. 1 mile single lane que could be just over half a mile of slowly moving and filtering traffic if both lanes were used! People seem to be really insecure when driving and not wanting to be seen to have someone 'get one over them' by not letting the person filterIt is more annoying for the drivers of Range Rover Sports with limo black tints if you drive past their puny attempt to force you to stop by straddling the white lines, especially when the resultant abuse from them is met with a smile, wave and perhaps a little kiss blown in their direction.
rant over
Edited by PKLD on Wednesday 27th October 12:04
I leave a largish gap (2 - 3 car lengths)
The reason i do it is to keep moving and most of the time it works.
Proof was on the M6 at the weekend. Traffic was bunching up so i increased the gap between me and the guy in front however the guy in front closed the gap on the guy in front of him. This resulted in the the guy in front of me braking and accelerating then braking and accelerating then stopping and starting for about 3 miles. I on the otherhand was crusing behind him at 15 - 30mph with a 2 or 3 car gap pleasently overtaking the solid queue in L2. Everytime he slopped i lifted off the accelerator to maintain the gap and by the time i was within 1.5 car lengths of him he had started moving again.
It may well take the same ammount of time to stay at a constant speed 3 car lengths behind someone as be 3 inches from the guy in front but i would much rather be cruising along steadily then stoping and starting for miles.
The reason i do it is to keep moving and most of the time it works.
Proof was on the M6 at the weekend. Traffic was bunching up so i increased the gap between me and the guy in front however the guy in front closed the gap on the guy in front of him. This resulted in the the guy in front of me braking and accelerating then braking and accelerating then stopping and starting for about 3 miles. I on the otherhand was crusing behind him at 15 - 30mph with a 2 or 3 car gap pleasently overtaking the solid queue in L2. Everytime he slopped i lifted off the accelerator to maintain the gap and by the time i was within 1.5 car lengths of him he had started moving again.
It may well take the same ammount of time to stay at a constant speed 3 car lengths behind someone as be 3 inches from the guy in front but i would much rather be cruising along steadily then stoping and starting for miles.
Agree completely about people at motorway speeds braking has a knock on effect.
My original post was talking about traffic where you can crawl along at 3-4mph or stop, wait 30 seconds then move, stop, wait 30 secs etc.
Surely keeping an even, although very slow speed has the same effect as travelling at an even, much faster motorway speed?
My original post was talking about traffic where you can crawl along at 3-4mph or stop, wait 30 seconds then move, stop, wait 30 secs etc.
Surely keeping an even, although very slow speed has the same effect as travelling at an even, much faster motorway speed?
Once the traffic is averaging slower than you can maintain a constant speed without slipping the clutch (about 5mph in the Elise) you have little choice but to stop and start. Once you're stopped, you may as well stay stopped until you can actually move a reasonable distance rather than burning your clutch out to move a car's length at a time.
Fume troll said:
Absolutely, not everyone needs to leave a gap, if the cars are all creeping forward then I'll close up, but if the guy infront of me is doing a constant stop-start I'll leave a small gap and smooth it out for me and the cars behind me.
Cheers,
FT.
Yup. It's the difference between a thinking driver and a reactive one, IMO.Cheers,
FT.
The Black Flash said:
Fume troll said:
Absolutely, not everyone needs to leave a gap, if the cars are all creeping forward then I'll close up, but if the guy infront of me is doing a constant stop-start I'll leave a small gap and smooth it out for me and the cars behind me.
Cheers,
FT.
Yup. It's the difference between a thinking driver and a reactive one, IMO.Cheers,
FT.
Or the one with a TVR clutch. 4 hour drive last Friday took 6 thanks to the queues on the M6 and left me with a left leg like a Greek God 
My pet hate is sitting behind vans, SUVs and people with tinted windows. Yes I always keep an eye on the car in front, but the one in front of them is usually a better indicator as to what's going to happen next and gives you more warning.
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