Changing from SBC to LS - the story so far

[martinlaw]

There has been a lot of discussion here on the pro's and con's of SBC/LS engines.

I have decided to go the LS route now and thought it may be useful for anyone contemplating doing this to read my experiences and what the cost implications are.

I have owned Ultimas for over 5 years now (a Sport for 3 years and my current GTR 2), although i am not a mechanic or auto electrician, i know my way around an Ultima- i like things to be right and have confidence in it's safety and performance.

My 525bhp AS engine went bang in the summer (not taken it apart yet but i suspect the crank fractured)after covering 5000 miles, up to that point i was pleased with it. I loved the raw power and noise it made, i took out the choke so even starting it was an event (2 mins of around 2000 rpm before it would even think of ticking over).

i bought another SBC to tide me over until now which i have just sold (hi Lisa)

What i did not like on all the SBC engines i have owned is the lumpiness at low revs, poor fuel economy and vibration - so decided to try the LS route.

My technical ability is not that high so have asked Kyle (a well known member of this forum) to source and fit it for me, he is very knowledgable and helpful.

The estimated cost from Kyle is £12000.00 for supply and fitting a LS2 engine developing around 525bhp (same as my old AS engine) The price includes porting the heads, new cam, springs etc. and high flow ceramic coated headers.

Some of the cost will be off set by selling parts from the car etc. which i don't need.


We have now found a LS2 engine which has only covered 4000 miles and includes the starter, air con. compressor, loom and ecu.

Costs so far:

Engine cost £3500.00 Sale of SBC £3250.00

I will keep this thread updated as the project progresses if anyone is interested.

[dal2litrefrogeye]

yep keep it going cheers , id never say never myself to an L S

[philcerb]

£12,000?(ouch)You need to call andy at gardner douglas or mark at Lsv8power both can do headers,fuel sys,adapters,run kits,both can fit any ls and make it run.

[jason61c]

12K!!!?! Where does that price come from?

[spatz]

that is easy to be calculated, as you need engine, harness, ECU, new headers and exhaust, fuel system, air intake, etc....

[martinlaw]

To Help understand what is involved in this project, below is a list of items needed/modified to achieve around 520bhp which is my target.

LS2 engine - used 4000 miles engine (to be stripped, checked and rebuilt with modified cam and heads)
Gas flowing heads
Loom, pedal and ECU
Fly by wire extension
Cam upgrade, lifters, springs etc.
Adapter plate and flywheel (using a getrag box)
Fuel pump and filters
Fuel lines and fittings (all top quality)
Headers 2" primaries - ceramic coated
Exhaust link pipes
Engine mounts
Inlet spin
Remote oil filter with engine fittings (top quality)- this will be thermostatically controlled
Fuel regulator
Swirl pot
Alternator
Air Con compressor
Belts
Head idler
Air con tensioner
Starter motor
various sundries.
Labour to modify and fit above.

I am sure there are some things i have forgotten but I hope you can see why we arrived at the very approx. £12000 budget.

Heads are now coming off to be gas flowed and the crank taken out to check all is well with the shells etc. i am not expecting any problems due to the engines low milage (you can still see the honing marks in the bores) but it is better to be safe than sorry.

[Gulf LS3]

philcerb said:

£12,000?(ouch)You need to call andy at gardner douglas or mark at Lsv8power both can do headers,fuel sys,adapters,run kits,both can fit any ls and make it run.

that includes the purchase of the engine, let them quote like for like then.....

[philcerb]

Like for like price would be £8500 plus engine? and I have spoke to mark.

[Gulf LS3]

the same OUCH

[robm3]

Martin,

Drop me an email and I can go through all the costs in great detail (as someone who's put his hand in pocket to actually pay).

Quote of 12K is about right, so many things to consider and it's not just as simple as it sounds, just some of the items below.

Robin.

oil pan (for track days) baffled and gated
oil pan fitting
LS2 engine fitting including the ECU loom etc
rubber engine mounts
inlet manifold conversion( spinning it through 180 degrees)
flywheel
adaptor plate
shipping and duty of flywheel and adaptor
fuel system including a1000 pump,filters,reg and fuel lines
fuel swirl pot
fuel lift pump
ali fuel tray
fitting of ali tray
new -6 link fuel pipe
45 degree -6 fittings x 5
20 foot of -6 hose
npt to -6 fittings (fuel lift pump) x 2
overflow pie -8
4 90 degree hoses
t piece 6
cable ties, p clips and sundries
90 degree -6 hose ends
clutch pivot
sensors to work with e67 ecm, damper to run with 58 tooth reluctor
filling and painting of the rear bulkhead
specially made water swirl pot
silencers
fit new harness
clean and paint gearbox
swirl pot bracket
rubber bobbins for lift pump
45 degree -8 hose ends
straight -6 hose end
secondhand expansion tank
4 52mm p clips
2 -6 hose ends
1 -6 t piece
3 14 mm p clips
5 10 mm jubilee clips
45 degree hose
2ft ali hose
2 metres of 5/16 th
rivets and rivunts
8 spark plugs iridium tip
straight hose
specially fabricated exhausts
rear exhaust mount
1 metre -6 hose
take car to exhaust shop(load and unload)
collect the car from exhaust shop (load and unload)
90 degree -6 fitting
45 degree hose end
12 jubilee clips
russel fuel rail adaptor
water temperature adaptor
air con dryer
paint the headers in vht paint
6 jubilee clips
engineer the rear gearbox mount (tap holes out to m10
2 90 degree -10 hose ends oil cooler
making the oil cooler brackets and fitting
oil cooler
brass block for oil pressure plate
hoses to make a remote oil block

Edited by robm3 on Tuesday 2nd November 10:13

[martinlaw]

Phil - I did not start this thread to start comparing prices, i have known Kyle for a few years now, he is a genuine guy with a lot of experience who i trust to do a first rate job at a reasonable price. There may be some better prices out there, but how much is knowing that the job will be done properly using quality components worth?

You stated £8500.00 plus engine - my engine cost £3500.00 that totals £12000 - my budget!! Don't forget that the engine is also being stripped down and checked,the heads are being gas flowed and once complete is going to set up on a dyno and then fine tuned on the road. Does the £8500 include all this?


Robin - thanks for the input, alot of your list comes under my heading 'sundries', it is all these bits that add to the cost. I will email you.

Martin.

[Tony 1234]

Good thread

[V8Dom]

martinlaw said:

Phil - I did not start this thread to start comparing prices, i have known Kyle for a few years now, he is a genuine guy with a lot of experience who i trust to do a first rate job at a reasonable price. There may be some better prices out there, but how much is knowing that the job will be done properly using quality components worth?

You stated £8500.00 plus engine - my engine cost £3500.00 that totals £12000 - my budget!! Don't forget that the engine is also being stripped down and checked,the heads are being gas flowed and once complete is going to set up on a dyno and then fine tuned on the road. Does the £8500 include all this?


Robin - thanks for the input, alot of your list comes under my heading 'sundries', it is all these bits that add to the cost. I will email you.

Martin.

I too agree, Kyle is a top bloke and a Ultima guy through and through, he will not be offering his services and ripping us off..I too would use him if I wasnt a mechanic myself..

Martin has posted this thred to offer others the info of what he is going through, not as a comparison to other prices...We all wonder what is involved and how ever penny is spent and this is a great thred for others wanting to change to a LS engine and not sure what is involved...Keep it up, great thred

Dom

[Gulf LS3]

thanks guys, its appreciated. I do my best to help and try and make a adequate living (not easy).

[spatz]

You should be aware that a modern injected setup cannot compare with a carburated setup and a conversion is even more pricey, as you are more or less buying everything and more again apart from the gear box.......I have made my peace with the factory, they are trying to offer a good package at the lowest price, but sometimes I would have appreciated fi they would gave me the choice, the minimum requirment part and the one you really want. Not a surprise why most are ending up on a higher budget. Honestly still a very good value for what you get.............BIG SMILE !

[bluesatin]

Also AS does a fitting kit for many of the bits that work including the pulley set, alt, aircon wiring and ecu.

Edited by bluesatin on Wednesday 3rd November 22:43

[V8Dom]

Pictures of the car at Kyles today. God that car is spotless!!

Edited by V8Dom on Saturday 15th January 23:31

[Storer]

I don't like to worry you but I think someone has stolen your engine!


Seriously though, it does look good. I was thinking of silver with a central stripe but seems to have already been done. Bu**er.

Paul

I've just realised it's not silver but metallic grey so I'm back in business

Edited by Storer on Saturday 15th January 23:51

[martinlaw]

As i now bought Rusti's car, i will reluctantly be selling this one and will be advetising it shortly.

Martin.