£10k - What (track) car
Discussion
I'm after a track car which means I'm after some help.
I'd like to spend no more than about £8.5 on a track toy, plus about £1.5k on a good trailer - so budget is about £10k all in.
I'm still a relative amateur (done about 5 track days) so I don't want anything too hardcore (Radicals etc are out). Thing is, I'm not sure where to start and I need guidance
Am I better buying a low mileage road car that hasn't been tracked, strip it and prep it myself (probably more expensive)? Buy something which has been on the track lots already which is really old and knackered and rebuild the engine and upgrade\renew shocks bakes etc (again, possibly expensive), or get one of the many cars which have claimed to have been rebuilt recently (more bang for buck....but possibly rebuilt badly or about to blow up)?
Other info - I've never been involved mechanically with cars, though I'm happy to learn over the years and spend weekends getting my hands dirty repairing stuff. I'll be towing it to track so don't have to worry about it being road legal. I'm happy to start with just 'open' track days, but if they go well I may be interested in some race series or hillclimbs etc
A couple of cars that have caught my eye are the following, but I couldn't really tell you why they have caught my eye and could be a bag of spanners: Peoples thoughts on them would be appreciated. What should I be looking at? Many thanks in advance.
Tiger
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2208116.htm
Pork 944
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2208316.htm
Pug 106
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2158049.htm
Pug 205 (serious offers!)
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2193666.htm
etc
I'd like to spend no more than about £8.5 on a track toy, plus about £1.5k on a good trailer - so budget is about £10k all in.
I'm still a relative amateur (done about 5 track days) so I don't want anything too hardcore (Radicals etc are out). Thing is, I'm not sure where to start and I need guidance
Am I better buying a low mileage road car that hasn't been tracked, strip it and prep it myself (probably more expensive)? Buy something which has been on the track lots already which is really old and knackered and rebuild the engine and upgrade\renew shocks bakes etc (again, possibly expensive), or get one of the many cars which have claimed to have been rebuilt recently (more bang for buck....but possibly rebuilt badly or about to blow up)?
Other info - I've never been involved mechanically with cars, though I'm happy to learn over the years and spend weekends getting my hands dirty repairing stuff. I'll be towing it to track so don't have to worry about it being road legal. I'm happy to start with just 'open' track days, but if they go well I may be interested in some race series or hillclimbs etc
A couple of cars that have caught my eye are the following, but I couldn't really tell you why they have caught my eye and could be a bag of spanners: Peoples thoughts on them would be appreciated. What should I be looking at? Many thanks in advance.
Tiger
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2208116.htm
Pork 944
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2208316.htm
Pug 106
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2158049.htm
Pug 205 (serious offers!)
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2193666.htm
etc
I'd say you really want a full cage if you're going to take a Seven type car on the track regularly. That would be my choice though, how about this:
http://pistonheads.com/sales/2199531.htm
http://pistonheads.com/sales/2199531.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2185108.htm
M3 Evolution Coupe for road and track (1998)
78,500 miles £7,995
I bought this M3 Evo specifically for doing track days and have modified it accordingly. The car has done 3 trackdays in my ownership.
The car was an SMG but I converted it to 5 speed. All brand new, OEM parts were used for the conversion except for the gearbox itself i.e. shift linkage bushes, prop guibo, clutch slave cylinder, clutch, release bearing and gearbox mounts all brand new OEM.
GENERAL
Registered in March 1998
78,000 miles
FBMWSH until I bought the car. Since then it has been looked after by my BMW independent in Stevenage.
12 months MOT.
Tax until December 2010.
SPECIFICATION FROM FACTORY
Estoril blue paint
Light grey leather interior in excellent condition
Rear sunblind
Rear park distance control
Dual climate control but the aircon is not working. It could be as simple as needing a regas but it could be more.
Front passenger airbag
Sunroof
Headlight wash
MODIFICATIONS
AP Racing front and rear 4 piston caliper brake kits with 330x28mm two piece discs on the front. The front discs were new under 2000 miles ago.
Pagid RS29 front pads. Rear Ferodo DS2500 pads.
Goodridge braided clutch hose.
Goodridge braided brake lines.
AC Schnitzer exhaust
K&N panel filter
Yokohama A048R track tyre on front (225/45/17)
Federal 595RSR track tyre on rear (235/40/17)
Bilstein PSS9 Clubsport suspension fitted brand new in March this year along with all new fitting hardware.
New OEM front top mounts, crossed for -3.0 degrees negative camber.
New OEM cross brace with buffer stop. New Rogue Engineering rear top mounts.
Eibach 15mm spacers on the front.
Powerflex bushes - front lower control arms, rear trailing arms.
Remap by Evolve producing 336 bhp at the flywheel.
Geometry by Wheels in Motion.
MAINTENANCE DURING MY OWNERSHIP
All parts used are OEM from BMW except where stated.
Constant pressure valve fixed 20/11/2008
New handbrake shoes 18/02/2009
New battery (non BMW) 18/02/2009
Vanos bolts, gaskets and o rings renewed 24/03/2009
Inspection 1 including new water pump, new viscous fan coupling, valve shims, new alternator and airpump belts. Oil used is always Silkolene Pro S 5w-40 16/07/2009
Replaced belt rollers and tensioners 7/09/2009
Cooling system - all new thermostat seals, water channel seals, o rings, copper securing washers, water jacket on water pump 29/10/2009
All power steering pipes replaced 18/03/2010
Oil service 16/04/2010
New gearbox seals and propshaft CV 16/04/2010
New injector 29/06/2010
Oil service 26/08/2010
My car has been meticulously maintained so the buyer is assured of no unexpected bills.
M3 Evolution Coupe for road and track (1998)
78,500 miles £7,995
I bought this M3 Evo specifically for doing track days and have modified it accordingly. The car has done 3 trackdays in my ownership.
The car was an SMG but I converted it to 5 speed. All brand new, OEM parts were used for the conversion except for the gearbox itself i.e. shift linkage bushes, prop guibo, clutch slave cylinder, clutch, release bearing and gearbox mounts all brand new OEM.
GENERAL
Registered in March 1998
78,000 miles
FBMWSH until I bought the car. Since then it has been looked after by my BMW independent in Stevenage.
12 months MOT.
Tax until December 2010.
SPECIFICATION FROM FACTORY
Estoril blue paint
Light grey leather interior in excellent condition
Rear sunblind
Rear park distance control
Dual climate control but the aircon is not working. It could be as simple as needing a regas but it could be more.
Front passenger airbag
Sunroof
Headlight wash
MODIFICATIONS
AP Racing front and rear 4 piston caliper brake kits with 330x28mm two piece discs on the front. The front discs were new under 2000 miles ago.
Pagid RS29 front pads. Rear Ferodo DS2500 pads.
Goodridge braided clutch hose.
Goodridge braided brake lines.
AC Schnitzer exhaust
K&N panel filter
Yokohama A048R track tyre on front (225/45/17)
Federal 595RSR track tyre on rear (235/40/17)
Bilstein PSS9 Clubsport suspension fitted brand new in March this year along with all new fitting hardware.
New OEM front top mounts, crossed for -3.0 degrees negative camber.
New OEM cross brace with buffer stop. New Rogue Engineering rear top mounts.
Eibach 15mm spacers on the front.
Powerflex bushes - front lower control arms, rear trailing arms.
Remap by Evolve producing 336 bhp at the flywheel.
Geometry by Wheels in Motion.
MAINTENANCE DURING MY OWNERSHIP
All parts used are OEM from BMW except where stated.
Constant pressure valve fixed 20/11/2008
New handbrake shoes 18/02/2009
New battery (non BMW) 18/02/2009
Vanos bolts, gaskets and o rings renewed 24/03/2009
Inspection 1 including new water pump, new viscous fan coupling, valve shims, new alternator and airpump belts. Oil used is always Silkolene Pro S 5w-40 16/07/2009
Replaced belt rollers and tensioners 7/09/2009
Cooling system - all new thermostat seals, water channel seals, o rings, copper securing washers, water jacket on water pump 29/10/2009
All power steering pipes replaced 18/03/2010
Oil service 16/04/2010
New gearbox seals and propshaft CV 16/04/2010
New injector 29/06/2010
Oil service 26/08/2010
My car has been meticulously maintained so the buyer is assured of no unexpected bills.
Edited by edo on Wednesday 3rd November 15:58
If it's soley as a track car why buy something on which the primary focus isn't drivability? I mean, it's mighty fun throwing a hatchback around with abandon, but why not just get a HyaBlackR1BusaBird Seven style car? It's what they're made for from the ground up and there are plenty around for <£10k.
Edited by BrewsterBear on Wednesday 3rd November 15:54
Those are all really different cars. I would try and work out what sort of perforamnce you really want out of it and then consider how much to maintain etc, a Porsche 944 will cost a lot more to keep going than a Pug for example.
I have always driven to my trackdays and used the following which are always road legal. Caterham crossflow then an HPC. (Crossflow much more fun but not as fast).Intgra Type R(great for going round and round all day pretty cheaply)Porche 944 Turbo(expensive to track due to age and weight)and now a lotus elise. All of these have been great fun but I reckon the Elise has the edge overall being pretty reliable, quite quick and easy to maintain, oh and you can drive it on the road for additional fun, also cheap to insure with specialist insurers who include up to 5 track days f.o.c.
In my mind running low running costs and great fun are only achievable with a car that is inherently very lightweight which puts much less stress on everything. something like an M3 might work but you will always be wanting to improve brakes etc for the track.
I have always driven to my trackdays and used the following which are always road legal. Caterham crossflow then an HPC. (Crossflow much more fun but not as fast).Intgra Type R(great for going round and round all day pretty cheaply)Porche 944 Turbo(expensive to track due to age and weight)and now a lotus elise. All of these have been great fun but I reckon the Elise has the edge overall being pretty reliable, quite quick and easy to maintain, oh and you can drive it on the road for additional fun, also cheap to insure with specialist insurers who include up to 5 track days f.o.c.
In my mind running low running costs and great fun are only achievable with a car that is inherently very lightweight which puts much less stress on everything. something like an M3 might work but you will always be wanting to improve brakes etc for the track.
Edited by delmatt on Wednesday 3rd November 15:59
kambites said:
I'd say you really want a full cage if you're going to take a Seven type car on the track regularly. That would be my choice though, how about this:
http://pistonheads.com/sales/2199531.htm
I'm quite a big guy with wide shoulders and big arms (it's all muscle, honest!) Would that rule Caterhams out? I'm never sure which Caterham is which size - I want to be comfortable when throwing it around.....which is why I was tending towards a 'road car' - any other big guys fit into Caterhams without having to be shoe horned in, or spilling out over the door and passenger?http://pistonheads.com/sales/2199531.htm
M3's are starting to be quite popular as they can be had for circa 5k now.
I've always been tempted to get a twinturbo supra and put it on a serious diet - reliable fast car with better handling thrown in could be a winner... never seen one done so there may be a reason why which someone more experienced may be able to throw some light on....
I've always been tempted to get a twinturbo supra and put it on a serious diet - reliable fast car with better handling thrown in could be a winner... never seen one done so there may be a reason why which someone more experienced may be able to throw some light on....
The "SV" is the wider bodied Caterham.
If your width is at shoulder height (rather than gut height) you might be OK in a standard car as long as you don't want to take passengers. If you don't fit, an Elise/VX220 would be a good compromise, again as long as you don't want to take passengers.
The Elise is a vastly inferior track tool though, IMHO. It's just too heavy.
If your width is at shoulder height (rather than gut height) you might be OK in a standard car as long as you don't want to take passengers. If you don't fit, an Elise/VX220 would be a good compromise, again as long as you don't want to take passengers.
The Elise is a vastly inferior track tool though, IMHO. It's just too heavy.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 3rd November 16:00
Thanks for all your fast replies - very much appreciated.
A Seven might be the way to go then (SV I think would be needed) - 7's seem to be more than the '7 type cars' such as Westies - is it worth the extra money on a true 7?
Also, I know this is very much a sweeping statement, but what are running costs like for running a 7 for track only (how long is a piece of string right?), but as a rule of thumb, what do people budget for or do between a spirited track day? Change all fluids after every track day and tyres after every 2 track days? Rebuild engine every 10 track days or generally never? etc etc.
I'm hoping to have some spare cash after the sale of my car, so if running costs are cheaper than I thought then I could maybe squeeze a little more out of my budget.
EFA
kambites said:
If your width is at shoulder height (rather than gut height)
OK OK I admit it....I've got a bit of a gut as well. A Seven might be the way to go then (SV I think would be needed) - 7's seem to be more than the '7 type cars' such as Westies - is it worth the extra money on a true 7?
Also, I know this is very much a sweeping statement, but what are running costs like for running a 7 for track only (how long is a piece of string right?), but as a rule of thumb, what do people budget for or do between a spirited track day? Change all fluids after every track day and tyres after every 2 track days? Rebuild engine every 10 track days or generally never? etc etc.
I'm hoping to have some spare cash after the sale of my car, so if running costs are cheaper than I thought then I could maybe squeeze a little more out of my budget.
EFA
Edited by itz_baseline on Wednesday 3rd November 16:17
Evo (I think) did a track review of a load of Seven style cars and the Caterham was fastest despite being the least powerful by some margin. They are a fair bit more expensive though... Westfields can be good if they're built properly, but there is much more variation because the build is more complex. I think some of the other clones are decent enough too, although I don't know enough to comment on which.
I don't know much about the track costs of Sevens, but generally lighter cars are cheaper to run because they stress their suspension components, brakes and tyres less.
I don't know much about the track costs of Sevens, but generally lighter cars are cheaper to run because they stress their suspension components, brakes and tyres less.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 3rd November 16:17
If you really don't want a 7, then my first thought was Boxster...been in a few (never driven one though) and they are superb...you could even keep that as a road car. I'm struggling to think of anything that's not too hard core but still needs a trailer. As others have said you could make a nice E36 M3, again no need to make it road illegal.
A Fisher Fury might be worth a look, too:
http://pistonheads.com/sales/2085986.htm
It's pretty much a Seven with a body on it but I think the cabin is a reasonable width.
http://pistonheads.com/sales/2085986.htm
It's pretty much a Seven with a body on it but I think the cabin is a reasonable width.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 3rd November 16:24
superman84 said:
7 is a great shout. I think you could get a much better spec sti or evo for the money tho than the m3.
I would have thought that the M3 would be more fun round a track though than a heavier 4wd car?Not having driven one I wouldn't know though
Edited by OllieC on Wednesday 3rd November 17:13
I would also suggest a Caterham or Westfield type car.
They are tremendous fun to drive and thrash. they are not as much of a compromise on track as a super mini (Saxo) or Sports car (M3).
As it is track days then fun is more important than speed. They are not that quick in straight line (engine dependant) but nice and quick in the bends.
They are easy to work on so cheap garage bills. They are light so less wear and tear on the components. As the mechanicals (on westfields) are predominatly Ford then they tend to be cheap also.
They are tremendous fun to drive and thrash. they are not as much of a compromise on track as a super mini (Saxo) or Sports car (M3).
As it is track days then fun is more important than speed. They are not that quick in straight line (engine dependant) but nice and quick in the bends.
They are easy to work on so cheap garage bills. They are light so less wear and tear on the components. As the mechanicals (on westfields) are predominatly Ford then they tend to be cheap also.
What about an E36 328 coupe? These come with a M3 derived manual box anyway. Just add lightness, Z3 rack and LSD.
They seem quite a reasonable purchase and then you can strip the hell out of it and have what you want. There are a couple of threads on here that detail this same transformation.
I am sure you could have decent track car for well within your budget.
They seem quite a reasonable purchase and then you can strip the hell out of it and have what you want. There are a couple of threads on here that detail this same transformation.
I am sure you could have decent track car for well within your budget.
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