Crime does pay, at least in Somalia

[sadoksevoli]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11704306

So you commit acts of piracy and get a lot of money in return - I think paying off these crooks this signifies the moral bankruptcy of so-called civilized democracies - the precedent it sets, the absolute decay of any international resolution to deal with this problem effectively, determinedly and decisively will bode ill for the future. If anyone says this is to save lives, how many lives will be lost when there is the inevitable escalation of piracy and other illegal activities of this type.

Oh and also where does anyone think the money comes from? From us, as the costs will be passed on.

[Dracoro]

I wonder what will *happen* to these pirates once the ships have been returned?

[EDLT]

Nobody wants to do anything about the pirates, and I think there is some law preventing private companies building an army and invading anyone they don't like.

[GavinPearson]

The trouble is that Somalia is basically in a state of anarchy and so the only way to stamp out the problem is to deal with it in a way that would sent a clear message to other pirates that the risk isn't worth it. Unfortunately that way would be akin to the way the USA dealt with the Taliban immediately after 9/11 at which point any country considering such action needs to consider the UN slapping them on the wrist, and do-gooders the world over denouncing them.

Hopefully the next ships to be attacked will be Russian, but I suspect the kidnappers are not that stupid.

[AJS-]

fk me, I'm getting a gun and a boat.


IMO it's just unpoliceable - the sea is too big. I'm pretty sure if it was $110 million worth of my oil I'd have guns on the boat. Surely once in international waters it's not the business of any state?

[dudleybloke]

time for merchant ships to start getting tooled up!

give each ship a few pairs of night vision scopes and thermal imaging so they can see threats coming at night and mount a few .50 cal machine guns around the ship as a bare minimum.

[GarryA]

dudleybloke said:

time for merchant ships to start getting tooled up!

give each ship a few pairs of night vision scopes and thermal imaging so they can see threats coming at night and mount a few .50 cal machine guns around the ship as a bare minimum.

Unforunately the pirates have just been given $12m to get 'tooled up' also.

[ShadownINja]

Ninjas are cooler but there's no money in assassinations these days.

[GavinPearson]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Is there a specific case you are referring to?

[Terzo123]

You can book up pirate hunting tours. Looks like a blast

http://www.somalicruises.com/

[sadoksevoli]

Terzo123 said:

You can book up pirate hunting tours. Looks like a blast

http://www.somalicruises.com/

Wow, but there's no contact details...

On a serious note, it seems that the knots that the world has tied itself into thanks to the power of lawyers and their lackey politicians means that these problems cannot be solved by force of arms but will be allowed to fester and grow into a larger problem - how long until one group begins to think a cruise liner full of wealthy people might net a lot more money - given the range they operate the whole Indian ocean is probably fair game? How many other failed states with a coastline could harbour similar groups? I am not saying someone gets embroiled in another quagmire in Somalia but the moment two or three confirmed pirate boats are blown out of the water, all hands left to the sharks, the bleats of the lawyers and do-gooders are completely ignored, then the problem will go away.

[Stu R]

ShadownINja said:

Ninjas are cooler but there's no money in assassinations these days.

That and the fact they're too scared to take on pirates

[MiniMan64]

I'm amazed that given how common this is becoming and the value of the boats, that companies are not employing security teams on the boats.

[Engineer1]

Or at least offering to be training vessels for the SAS/SBS or their own forces equivalents. The pirates would be a little more careful if some ships had a squad of soldiers aboard.

[ShadownINja]

Stu R said:

ShadownINja said:

Ninjas are cooler but there's no money in assassinations these days.

That and the fact they're too scared to take on pirates

Watch your mouth. There are 18 ninjas hiding in your room right now.

[Jonny671]

Engineer1 said:

Or at least offering to be training vessels for the SAS/SBS or their own forces equivalents. The pirates would be a little more careful if some ships had a squad of soldiers aboard.

They did..

It didn't end well;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=73256...



If we didn't have stupid Rules of Engagement we'd be more than successful out there, just use them as target practice.

[sadoksevoli]

Jonny671 said:

Engineer1 said:

Or at least offering to be training vessels for the SAS/SBS or their own forces equivalents. The pirates would be a little more careful if some ships had a squad of soldiers aboard.

They did..

It didn't end well;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=73256...



If we didn't have stupid Rules of Engagement we'd be more than successful out there, just use them as target practice.

Again - all tied up by lawyers, maybe put a boat full of lawyers off the Somali coast - they could try and talk the pirates to death... ah a thought just occurred - a boat full of lawyers, all taken hostage - how much ransom to free them? They'd have to pay us to take them back methinks

[AJS-]

Times article said:

It was the first time the Royal Navy had been engaged in a fatal shoot-out on the high seas in living memory.

Really? Nothing in WW2? Or the Falklands?


Just what have you got against lawyers, sadoksevoli? And what have they got to do with this?

[sadoksevoli]

AJS- said:

Times article said:

It was the first time the Royal Navy had been engaged in a fatal shoot-out on the high seas in living memory.

Really? Nothing in WW2? Or the Falklands?


Just what have you got against lawyers, sadoksevoli? And what have they got to do with this?

The rules of engagement and the whole international approach are set in the context of the post-war concept of "international law", framed and enforced by lawyers and judges (almost entirely all lawyers). Political will and military power are now totally subservient to the interpretation of a set of international treaties and national laws set by the lawyers - the naval vessels pretending to combat the piracy have lawyers on board and the vessels' commanders' decision-making is totally dominated by their opinions. If anyone is killed or injured, or even if any property is damaged or destroyed, there is most definitely a fear that there may be legal action under some jurisdiction or other that could mean punitive financial damages, judgements that affect future acitons or even individual criminal proceedings. While the rule of law is deemed as paramount, laws are framed by humans, often a cabal of bureaucrats, politicians and lawyers, sitting in a different reality to the situation on the ground - so with the supremacy of law, it is the lawyers who hold the power - and while they have an important role to play in maintaining a balance between all the power factors the pendulum seems to have swung too far in their direction - leading to paralysis and lack of determined, decisive action on any front - so money is then thrown at the problem.

[Jonny671]

Surely, it would be more than worth it for these companies to hire a company like Blackwater or the like to protect their ships?