Fed up the "recession" excuse
Discussion
I was having a chat with my cousin today and he's winging about a new Tory policy being considered to make people work for their JSA benefits. I thought it's a fantastic idea. Probably the best Tory policy yet, however as my cousin is a staunch socialist, he's in disagreement.
Unfortunately the topic wandered into the "it's impossible to find a job because of the recession so you can't penalise people for that...." nonsense.
It drives me insane! It's NOT hard to find a job if you do it properly and you put your all into it. I switched jobs in the worst time of the recession to the best paid job I've had to now. On top of this, I was also offered about 3 other jobs in the following months. And this is in a country where I don't even speak the bloody language!
I'm getting pissed of with this attitude. I honestly couldn't believe somebody as intelligent as my cousin could have such a primeval view on things. He's definitely smarter than me in the IQ stakes but I wonder about common sense.
No wonder the UK is such a messed up place now.
Unfortunately the topic wandered into the "it's impossible to find a job because of the recession so you can't penalise people for that...." nonsense.
It drives me insane! It's NOT hard to find a job if you do it properly and you put your all into it. I switched jobs in the worst time of the recession to the best paid job I've had to now. On top of this, I was also offered about 3 other jobs in the following months. And this is in a country where I don't even speak the bloody language!
I'm getting pissed of with this attitude. I honestly couldn't believe somebody as intelligent as my cousin could have such a primeval view on things. He's definitely smarter than me in the IQ stakes but I wonder about common sense.
No wonder the UK is such a messed up place now.
It depends on peoples' expectations. If they are qulaified with degrees and/or other qualifications, their mindset automatically excluses jobs that they could possibly do. For people like that, there is more dignity in making a benefit claim than cleaning dishes in a hotel.
Not making excuses for them, but that's the way they think.
Not making excuses for them, but that's the way they think.
Eric Mc said:
It depends on peoples' expectations. If they are qulaified with degrees and/or other qualifications, their mindset automatically excluses jobs that they could possibly do. For people like that, there is more dignity in making a benefit claim than cleaning dishes in a hotel.
Not making excuses for them, but that's the way they think.
Nice sweeping generalisation!Not making excuses for them, but that's the way they think.
Penny-lope said:
A friend of mine (19 year old female) moved south 3 months ago, and was able to find a job within 2 weeks (p/t) and has now just landed herself a full time job...there are jobs out there.
Question is if she was having to fill in pot holes or whatever busywork it is the Tories have planned would she have had time to find herself those jobs?In the current climate finding a job is full time work in itself. How people will find time to do that when they're working for their benefits is beyond me.
This policy shows the ideological nature of the cuts being made. They're not really about cutting the welfare bill, rather they're about punishing those out of work whilst reviving the myth of the "deserving poor".
Plays well with the core voters but won't achieve it's aim.
beanbag said:
Unfortunately the topic wandered into the "it's impossible to find a job because of the recession so you can't penalise people for that...." nonsense.
No-one is being penalised. If you can't find a job then the govt will get you doing something uselful and pay you the JSA. Babu 01 said:
Penny-lope said:
A friend of mine (19 year old female) moved south 3 months ago, and was able to find a job within 2 weeks (p/t) and has now just landed herself a full time job...there are jobs out there.
Question is if she was having to fill in pot holes or whatever busywork it is the Tories have planned would she have had time to find herself those jobs?Not being funny, but if you're going to criticise policy at least take the time to note the most basic elements of it
Eric Mc said:
It depends on peoples' expectations. If they are qulaified with degrees and/or other qualifications, their mindset automatically excluses jobs that they could possibly do. For people like that, there is more dignity in making a benefit claim than cleaning dishes in a hotel.
Not making excuses for them, but that's the way they think.
For employers, recruiting people is time consuming and costs money. Which is partly why they don't employ graduates to clean dishes - as soon as a good job comes, they're off and you're back to square one. And they're probably not as good at it as someone who cleans dishes normally.Not making excuses for them, but that's the way they think.
In the red corner, we've got the "you can't penalise people for not getting a job leftie hand wringer party".
In the blue corner, we've got the "anyone can get a job; look, I did, that proves, now I'm all right jack right-wing PH party".
As always in these matters, I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between. There will be some people who are finding getting a job all but impossible right now, because they're unskilled, too old, overskilled, have no experience, etc, etc whatever yadda. There will also be some people who don't have a job simply because they have expended insufficient effort. There may be quite a lot of the latter group, but that doesn't mean the former group doesn't exist.
In the blue corner, we've got the "anyone can get a job; look, I did, that proves, now I'm all right jack right-wing PH party".
As always in these matters, I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between. There will be some people who are finding getting a job all but impossible right now, because they're unskilled, too old, overskilled, have no experience, etc, etc whatever yadda. There will also be some people who don't have a job simply because they have expended insufficient effort. There may be quite a lot of the latter group, but that doesn't mean the former group doesn't exist.
5 months unemployed 2008, started work only because a guy had an accident and had to be replaced, 2009 October unemployed for 10 months to July 2010.
Now i have been employed in around 20 countries, and have been for many years, but try getting a job in the UK, makes me cringe, have had numerous recruitment agencies put me forward with, stunning/impressive/ideal/cv (their statement not mine) and not one take up by any UK company, who i know are continually complaining in general about not being able to get "experienced/qualified" personnel.
So it is not allways the condition that he/she does"nt want work, and without getting into too deep a political debate, having a large influx of workers from outside the UK in the past few years has not helped to ease the situation.
I think that the previous government closed their eyes to it, as it helped certain types of employers to employ below the minimum wage and thus increase the "profitability" of certain companies, and with the creeping taxation they were able to finance the "unemployed, but as ever is the way of the world "you cannot fool all the people all the time".
Now i have been employed in around 20 countries, and have been for many years, but try getting a job in the UK, makes me cringe, have had numerous recruitment agencies put me forward with, stunning/impressive/ideal/cv (their statement not mine) and not one take up by any UK company, who i know are continually complaining in general about not being able to get "experienced/qualified" personnel.
So it is not allways the condition that he/she does"nt want work, and without getting into too deep a political debate, having a large influx of workers from outside the UK in the past few years has not helped to ease the situation.
I think that the previous government closed their eyes to it, as it helped certain types of employers to employ below the minimum wage and thus increase the "profitability" of certain companies, and with the creeping taxation they were able to finance the "unemployed, but as ever is the way of the world "you cannot fool all the people all the time".
The one that annoys me is "I've looked all around the village and I still can't find a job". I moved 200 miles from my family and homeland when I was 18 to educate myself and get a job. You have to be prepared to do that if you want to improve your life. This of course is followed by "I have a right to live in my community". No, you don't. I'd love to move back home one day but no-one has a right to live anywhere at the taxpayer's expense.
I do agree with the sentiment towards people that are abusing the system, but it's not the complete answer either. I have worked since 15 full time and for the most of it 2-3 jobs at a time, whilst getting taxed a stupid amount on anything that I earn over the cut off point.
By the way I'm here in Eire.
Now they are talking about the same thing and forcing people to work for their dole, but then that will also remove the job that was there that someone else was doing and contributing their tax to the economy. Then they go on the dole and the circle continues. They have to 'earn' their dole and that again replaces another job.
It would be better to push forward actual job creation and maybe make people take a job after a certain amount of offers. Giving more insentive to existing companies to expand therefore expanding the tax paying work force, this could in turn bring in more revenue.
The other problem is that is emerging that the goverment are very obviously trying to drive a wedge between the social classes in an attempt to divert the attenion from what is the incredible f
k up that themselves and the banks made.
Why should someone be forced to work for their €190 a week when they can put €50+billion into a bank that made bad financial decisions?!
I do understand that there are astonishing abuses of the system that was created to help, not to provide a lazy lifestyle but at the most it can't be more than 15% of total claiments that are on the fiddle so why should other people be forced into something because of them?
By the way I'm here in Eire.
Now they are talking about the same thing and forcing people to work for their dole, but then that will also remove the job that was there that someone else was doing and contributing their tax to the economy. Then they go on the dole and the circle continues. They have to 'earn' their dole and that again replaces another job.
It would be better to push forward actual job creation and maybe make people take a job after a certain amount of offers. Giving more insentive to existing companies to expand therefore expanding the tax paying work force, this could in turn bring in more revenue.
The other problem is that is emerging that the goverment are very obviously trying to drive a wedge between the social classes in an attempt to divert the attenion from what is the incredible f
k up that themselves and the banks made. Why should someone be forced to work for their €190 a week when they can put €50+billion into a bank that made bad financial decisions?!
I do understand that there are astonishing abuses of the system that was created to help, not to provide a lazy lifestyle but at the most it can't be more than 15% of total claiments that are on the fiddle so why should other people be forced into something because of them?
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