Discussion
Sorry for what may be a daft question, but if I have a Ford Mondeo which has a braked tow weight of 1600kg and a Brian James trailer which weighs 500kg and a car weighs 1000kg, then I will be okay, won't I?
I presume that braked weight means that the trailer has its own brakes, rather than relying on the car's?
How do I tell how much the trailer weighs? The information is not freely available on Brian James' web site.
I presume that braked weight means that the trailer has its own brakes, rather than relying on the car's?
How do I tell how much the trailer weighs? The information is not freely available on Brian James' web site.
Thank you for response. The above is hypothetical. I do not have the trailer yet, but what I really did not want to do was something that would have been typical of me and buy a trailer that I could not tow. Now that I know where to look, I will be much better placed to buy one.
BTW, what do you mean about overloading the rear axle of the mondeo?
BTW, what do you mean about overloading the rear axle of the mondeo?
minerva said:
BTW, what do you mean about overloading the rear axle of the mondeo?
If you don't get the weight distribution on the trailer correct you can put too much weight toward the tow hitch which can in turn overload the rear axle of the tow car, It's a common mistake and can work out costly with VOSA.minerva said:
Sorry for what may be a daft question, but if I have a Ford Mondeo which has a braked tow weight of 1600kg and a Brian James trailer which weighs 500kg and a car weighs 1000kg, then I will be okay, won't I?
Not necessarily - it's all about the maximum authorised mass. (MAM)If your Mondeo weights 1600kg, it probably has a MAM of 2100kg or so. (E.G. 500kg of passengers/luggage.)
The trailer weighs 500kg, and it will then have a MAM too - e.g. the weight in total with its maximum load on it. Say this is 1700kg, then you can carry a 1200kg car. So a 1000kg car is fine.
However, this 1700kg is above the Mondeo's towing weight, so it is illegal. Brian James will be able to reduce the MAM of the trailer and give you a new plate, not sure if/how much they charge for this.
The other consideration is if the MAM of the car and trailer combined is > 3500kg, then you need B+E categories on your driving license. It was grandfathered to everyone who passed their test before about 97/98, but if you are after this you need a separate test to exceed 3500kg. Also the trailer MAM cannot be more than 80% of the MAM of the car I believe, although this shouldn't really be a problem in most cases.
edb49 said:
minerva said:
Sorry for what may be a daft question, but if I have a Ford Mondeo which has a braked tow weight of 1600kg and a Brian James trailer which weighs 500kg and a car weighs 1000kg, then I will be okay, won't I?
Not necessarily - it's all about the maximum authorised mass. (MAM)If your Mondeo weights 1600kg, it probably has a MAM of 2100kg or so. (E.G. 500kg of passengers/luggage.)
The trailer weighs 500kg, and it will then have a MAM too - e.g. the weight in total with its maximum load on it. Say this is 1700kg, then you can carry a 1200kg car. So a 1000kg car is fine.
However, this 1700kg is above the Mondeo's towing weight, so it is illegal. Brian James will be able to reduce the MAM of the trailer and give you a new plate, not sure if/how much they charge for this.
The other consideration is if the MAM of the car and trailer combined is > 3500kg, then you need B+E categories on your driving license. It was grandfathered to everyone who passed their test before about 97/98, but if you are after this you need a separate test to exceed 3500kg. Also the trailer MAM cannot be more than 80% of the MAM of the car I believe, although this shouldn't really be a problem in most cases.
Edited by jagracer on Tuesday 9th November 16:13
Correct. Trailer's MAM is irrelevant when it is not loaded to that limit. Weight is dynamic, so if you're stopped they'll take you to a weighbridge if they suspect you are overloaded. You could tow a trailer with a MAM of 3500kg with your mondeo so long as the trailer and whatever was on it weighed 1600kg or less.
The 80% of the car's towing capacity rule is just a recommendation, but this doesn't mean it's not a good idea.
The rear axle loading will be covered by the nose weight limit for the Mondeo.
The 80% of the car's towing capacity rule is just a recommendation, but this doesn't mean it's not a good idea.
The rear axle loading will be covered by the nose weight limit for the Mondeo.
Edited by agent006 on Tuesday 9th November 18:35
I think that you are both incorrect:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi...
If you are on a post-97 licence like me, the max you can tow is a 'combined' MAM (car/trailer) of 3500kg. It doesn't matter what you have on the trailer - although a Mondeo could probably tow an empty plant trailer that weighs 1000kg and has a MAM of 3500kg, it isn't allowed.
As I read the above doc, the max combined MAM is 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer must be equal to less than the empty weight of the car...
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi...
If you are on a post-97 licence like me, the max you can tow is a 'combined' MAM (car/trailer) of 3500kg. It doesn't matter what you have on the trailer - although a Mondeo could probably tow an empty plant trailer that weighs 1000kg and has a MAM of 3500kg, it isn't allowed.
As I read the above doc, the max combined MAM is 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer must be equal to less than the empty weight of the car...
frodo_monkey said:
I think that you are both incorrect:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi...
If you are on a post-97 licence like me, the max you can tow is a 'combined' MAM (car/trailer) of 3500kg. It doesn't matter what you have on the trailer - although a Mondeo could probably tow an empty plant trailer that weighs 1000kg and has a MAM of 3500kg, it isn't allowed.
As I read the above doc, the max combined MAM is 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer must be equal to less than the empty weight of the car...
We were not discussing licences, we are talking about plated weights of cars and trailers.http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi...
If you are on a post-97 licence like me, the max you can tow is a 'combined' MAM (car/trailer) of 3500kg. It doesn't matter what you have on the trailer - although a Mondeo could probably tow an empty plant trailer that weighs 1000kg and has a MAM of 3500kg, it isn't allowed.
As I read the above doc, the max combined MAM is 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer must be equal to less than the empty weight of the car...
Don`t forget if you have any spare tyres, fuel etc on the trailer, they`ll add up too.
Be aware of the rear axle weight. I thought I had checked everything when towing, bought a lightweight trailer, ensured car was loaded evenly and put anything heavy in the boot of the towcar (to keep the weight off the trailer). Was stopped and the officers asked what the weights were. I`d checked by taking the car to a local free weighbridge before, so I knew what the weights were and thought I was legal, however, they said the rear axle was probably overloaded, I genuinely had no idea what they meant.
Each axle on the car can is rated to a certain load. The rear axle on mine was rated to 1100kg (from memory), but the way I`d spread the load meant even though the noseweight was fine and the weight on the trailer was fine, there was too much weight on the rear axle of the car.
Be aware of the rear axle weight. I thought I had checked everything when towing, bought a lightweight trailer, ensured car was loaded evenly and put anything heavy in the boot of the towcar (to keep the weight off the trailer). Was stopped and the officers asked what the weights were. I`d checked by taking the car to a local free weighbridge before, so I knew what the weights were and thought I was legal, however, they said the rear axle was probably overloaded, I genuinely had no idea what they meant.
Each axle on the car can is rated to a certain load. The rear axle on mine was rated to 1100kg (from memory), but the way I`d spread the load meant even though the noseweight was fine and the weight on the trailer was fine, there was too much weight on the rear axle of the car.
Porkie said:
Anyone know what the deal is with if you car was not originally designed to tow?
I'd like to get a tow bar made for my E46 M3 so that I can use that to tow my Westfield to trackdays. And then if it rains or a have a problem I can use the BMW.
If your car is not homologated for towing then you can't, simple. Your M3 may fall into this category, My Focus RS is likewise. It should be clear in your owners manual.I'd like to get a tow bar made for my E46 M3 so that I can use that to tow my Westfield to trackdays. And then if it rains or a have a problem I can use the BMW.
Wh00sher said:
Don`t forget if you have any spare tyres, fuel etc on the trailer, they`ll add up too.
Be aware of the rear axle weight. I thought I had checked everything when towing, bought a lightweight trailer, ensured car was loaded evenly and put anything heavy in the boot of the towcar (to keep the weight off the trailer). Was stopped and the officers asked what the weights were. I`d checked by taking the car to a local free weighbridge before, so I knew what the weights were and thought I was legal, however, they said the rear axle was probably overloaded, I genuinely had no idea what they meant.
Each axle on the car can is rated to a certain load. The rear axle on mine was rated to 1100kg (from memory), but the way I`d spread the load meant even though the noseweight was fine and the weight on the trailer was fine, there was too much weight on the rear axle of the car.
Nige, did you get a penalty or were they happy just to educate you?Be aware of the rear axle weight. I thought I had checked everything when towing, bought a lightweight trailer, ensured car was loaded evenly and put anything heavy in the boot of the towcar (to keep the weight off the trailer). Was stopped and the officers asked what the weights were. I`d checked by taking the car to a local free weighbridge before, so I knew what the weights were and thought I was legal, however, they said the rear axle was probably overloaded, I genuinely had no idea what they meant.
Each axle on the car can is rated to a certain load. The rear axle on mine was rated to 1100kg (from memory), but the way I`d spread the load meant even though the noseweight was fine and the weight on the trailer was fine, there was too much weight on the rear axle of the car.
SpeedyDave said:
Wh00sher said:
Don`t forget if you have any spare tyres, fuel etc on the trailer, they`ll add up too.
Be aware of the rear axle weight. I thought I had checked everything when towing, bought a lightweight trailer, ensured car was loaded evenly and put anything heavy in the boot of the towcar (to keep the weight off the trailer). Was stopped and the officers asked what the weights were. I`d checked by taking the car to a local free weighbridge before, so I knew what the weights were and thought I was legal, however, they said the rear axle was probably overloaded, I genuinely had no idea what they meant.
Each axle on the car can is rated to a certain load. The rear axle on mine was rated to 1100kg (from memory), but the way I`d spread the load meant even though the noseweight was fine and the weight on the trailer was fine, there was too much weight on the rear axle of the car.
Nige, did you get a penalty or were they happy just to educate you?Be aware of the rear axle weight. I thought I had checked everything when towing, bought a lightweight trailer, ensured car was loaded evenly and put anything heavy in the boot of the towcar (to keep the weight off the trailer). Was stopped and the officers asked what the weights were. I`d checked by taking the car to a local free weighbridge before, so I knew what the weights were and thought I was legal, however, they said the rear axle was probably overloaded, I genuinely had no idea what they meant.
Each axle on the car can is rated to a certain load. The rear axle on mine was rated to 1100kg (from memory), but the way I`d spread the load meant even though the noseweight was fine and the weight on the trailer was fine, there was too much weight on the rear axle of the car.
l have recently discovered that the RAV4 l've been using to tow my E36 328 + spare wheels, fuel & tools, etc. is not up to the job.
lt has a 'towing capacity' of 1500kg but l think the weight of everything l'm towing is closer to 1900kg.
That means l've got to find a tow car with at least 1900kg towing capacity which in itself is not easy. l don't really want to buy another vehicle just to do one track day a month bearing in mind the purchase price, insurance, MOT and tax.
ls that correct?
Having looked into this l'm certain that the vast majority of people towing cars to track days are either doing it unsafely or illegally. What are the penalties if the Police/VOSA stop you and you're 'overloaded'?
lt has a 'towing capacity' of 1500kg but l think the weight of everything l'm towing is closer to 1900kg.
That means l've got to find a tow car with at least 1900kg towing capacity which in itself is not easy. l don't really want to buy another vehicle just to do one track day a month bearing in mind the purchase price, insurance, MOT and tax.
ls that correct?
Having looked into this l'm certain that the vast majority of people towing cars to track days are either doing it unsafely or illegally. What are the penalties if the Police/VOSA stop you and you're 'overloaded'?
CycleSi said:
Having looked into this l'm certain that the vast majority of people towing cars to track days are either doing it unsafely or illegally. What are the penalties if the Police/VOSA stop you and you're 'overloaded'?
At least 3 points plus fines that can run into the thousands although unless you are a truck driver I doubt it would be more than a fixed penalty which now are graduated depending on the severity of the overloading http://online.businesslink.gov.uk/Transport_files/...Edited by jagracer on Friday 12th November 17:24
All,
Thank you very much for all the replies. I grow more confused for a while, but then I think that I am fairly sure that towing an E36 M3 with a mondeo is a no-go.
I cannot believe that the information required for this is so shrouded in mystery. It is difficult enough to determine weights of trailers let alone towing weights of cars etc. It makes me wonder how many caravaners are out there illegally...?
Thank you very much for all the replies. I grow more confused for a while, but then I think that I am fairly sure that towing an E36 M3 with a mondeo is a no-go.
I cannot believe that the information required for this is so shrouded in mystery. It is difficult enough to determine weights of trailers let alone towing weights of cars etc. It makes me wonder how many caravaners are out there illegally...?
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff