Stafford Hospital Inquest

[dwspirit]

This must be the inquest that Winky Brown and Labour are dreading.

[Pesty]

why?

[dwspirit]

Because it will show just how poorly the NHS was run under bLiar and Winky! Ministers from the last Government are likely to be called including Kerry McCarthy.

[Pesty]

Much as I hate the Labout gov and would love to see this stick to them having been in that hospital several times I don't think the blame can go anywhere other than the staff and management for this one.

In fact the last government as much as I do hate them threw money at NHS.
Yes they cocked it all up with the agenda for change and other things including PFI etc etc but just about every hospital in teh last few years has had loads of new kit and extensive building work.

[parapaul]

Your profile says Yorkshire, Pesty - what were you doing in Stafford?

But yes, blame lies squarely with the hospital staff IMO, not the doctors and nurses, but the managers, execs, consultants, and so on, who between them have shown themselves incapable of finding ther arse with both hands.

[Pesty]

I travel a lot

[cuneus]

Pesty said:

Much as I hate the Labout gov and would love to see this stick to them having been in that hospital several times I don't think the blame can go anywhere other than the staff and management for this one.

In fact the last government as much as I do hate them threw money at NHS.
Yes they cocked it all up with the agenda for change and other things including PFI etc etc but just about every hospital in teh last few years has had loads of new kit and extensive building work.

Required reading before making silly statements

http://www.amazon.co.uk/NHS-Plc-Privatisation-Heal...

[Digga]

The volume of evidence against the hospital is huge - anecdotal stories are legion, and people will not hesitate to air their experiences.

What has been going on there is truly shocking. There has been a breakdown in the system, to the point that the most basic, essential care has not only been neglected but has failed to be overseen. That this happened at a time when more money was being funnelled into the system tells you all you need to know about the dangers of the public sector.

Here in Rugeley, just a few miles from Stafford, in the last five years two huge office complexes have been 'stolen' (well okay rented, but made unavailable for use by free enterprise) by two NHS organisations - PCT and Provider Services - which will no doubt have been spawned by the government's largesse. I'm regularly in my office for 730am and, in general, most other businesses are open or opening at that time, except for our dear friends at the NHS....

That increases in NHS money appear to have been spunked on admin is the government's fault. That is where they do carry the can.

[Digga]

Out patient stuff at Stafford is not, necessarily that bad, but I've seen and heard horrific things from friends and relatives that have been unfortunate enough to have to stay on wards, and A&E is like a combat zone.

Stories are too numerous, predictable and inevetable to bother listing, but one hopes the inquiry will take stock of all of these very serious complaints.

One specific thing that has amazed me is the treatment of a friend of my parents. He was a very senior figure in local government (I don't want to say who or what, because his condition and treatment are ongoing) but not only was his expereince - not unsurprisingly - as bad as any other patients on the ward, but even with his contacts, the 'feedback' never seemed to reach any opint of responsibility. There were some pretty big waves created, but the NHS's gargantuan, imbecilling, mindless bureaucracy simply shrugged them off like an oil tanker sailing through a storm.

Edited by Digga on Tuesday 9th November 08:27

[Pesty]

cuneus said:

Pesty said:

Much as I hate the Labout gov and would love to see this stick to them having been in that hospital several times I don't think the blame can go anywhere other than the staff and management for this one.

In fact the last government as much as I do hate them threw money at NHS.
Yes they cocked it all up with the agenda for change and other things including PFI etc etc but just about every hospital in teh last few years has had loads of new kit and extensive building work.

Required reading before making silly statements

http://www.amazon.co.uk/NHS-Plc-Privatisation-Heal...

which part is silly? no doubt i would agree with much in that book. but sending a man home with a ruptured spleen to die and the way people were treated has a lot to do with the managment and staff there as it does government policy in my opinion.

Edited by Pesty on Tuesday 9th November 09:36

[cuneus]

This part:

"threw money at NHS."
and this:

"just about every hospital in teh last few years has had loads of new kit and extensive building work."

[Pesty]

ok thanks for clearing that up .

of topic but spending did increase did it not? Im sure that book is correct and a lot got wasted.

I can't remember a hospital I have visited recently that has not had building work there or huge amounts of new kit. ok exagerated by using the word 'every' but you surley do not deny that a hell of a lot of building work has gone on yes a lot of it is PFI as I said above.

Hull Castle hill nice new oncology wing, manchester royal looks like an airport now,kingsmill (looks brilliant) have you seen coventry univerity hospital? they flattened the whole place and built a fantastic huge thing in its place etc etc Sheffield Northern gen has a fantastic new ITU as does York

Do you dissagree that a lot of teh blame lies with the management and staff there or do you agree with the Op that is lies with Blair etc etc?

Edited by Pesty on Tuesday 9th November 10:09

[cuneus]

Sure spending increased but where did it go ?

PFI was an unmitigated disaster and pigs in the trough meant that PFI hospitals were downsized way below what was required to meet the budget. An example of the stupidty: at Ipswich they cannot use the building outside contractual hours!
Needs a whole thread

All those hospitals are in labour wards ?

Back on topic

I don't know much about about Stafford but whatever the political/financial pressures it was local management responsibility

It is interesting that the clinical staff don't seem to be implicated much in the reports - did they honour the hippocratic oath ?

[Pesty]

I agree on the PFI and yes they do mostly seem to be labour wards funny that.

We will see when the enquiry finishes, all I have heard so far is anecdotal but pretty bad.

[audidoody]

I hope Northampton General is next on the list. C-Diff Central.

[mph1977]

Pesty said:

Much as I hate the Labout gov and would love to see this stick to them having been in that hospital several times I don't think the blame can go anywhere other than the staff and management for this one.

In fact the last government as much as I do hate them threw money at NHS.
Yes they cocked it all up with the agenda for change and other things including PFI etc etc but just about every hospital in teh last few years has had loads of new kit and extensive building work.

you have obviously been walking around with your eyes and ears shut

Agenda for Change - great idea but the practice was let down by the government telling trusts they had to make a saving on staffing when implementing it. Lead to trusts trying to downgrade staff deliberately , and when that didn't work - ' skill mix evaluation exercise' in areas with 'anomolies' in banding such as shock, horror, Senior Staff Nurses in specialist areas being banded at band 6 ...

PFI - this is something trusts have managed to feck up themselves with it being NHS Lay managers negotiating with Professional engineers ... and when there's an issue the Builder / operaotr saying ' it';s to the spec you agreed'

4 hour A+E target - pure political spin - there is NO clinical indication for this target and it can be argued that the quality of care has actually got worse because of it, 3h45min in the department and your test results aren't back - admitted under a vaguely relevant On call team and an overnight stay to be reviewed by the post take consultant in the vaguely relevant speciality ( and if it's a medical speciality you were admitted under there's a 1in12 chance of being seen by the correct speciality post take - it it were ortho or general surgery it;s still a 1 in slightly fewer chance of being seen post take by the correct speciality in the field ) vs seen by A+E reg / staff specialist or Consultant when your tests came back and discharged after ? 5 hours with relevant follow up ( with the correct subspecialist) if indicated ...

further to the 4 hour wait and being admitted , you better hope there are beds on the assessment unit otherwise you'll be put in a.n.other random bed and hopefully you'll be clerked and reviewed and hopefully the post take ward round will have been told where you were placed ... and hopefully the staff on the inappropriate ward will have been able to obtain the medication you need and you won't have put their patients at undue risk and their patients won't have put you at undue risk ... ( unlike the piss-heads waiting for plastics / hand surgery lurching around a Spinal injuries unit where there are patients with unstable spinal fractures and/or newly diagnosed tetraplegics)


2 week cancer / chest pain targets - some clinical relevance, good for spotting things that might be sinister but at what cost to other referrals and wide open to abuse ...

18 weeks again political smoke and mirrors and achieving 18 weeks targets at what cost to the rest of the service and at the risk of yet more inappropriately placed emergency admissions because the correct speciality has beds ring fenced for some who will 'breach' the arbitrary target imposed by the government and enforced by the political commissars that are bleeding the NHS dry with it's ever multiplying numbers of failed baked bean stackers aka lay management

[Pesty]

mph1977 said:

you have obviously been walking around with your eyes and ears shut

I think you have had your eyes shut I said it was a cock up agenda for change etc etc, everything you have posted I agree with. read my post again perhaps I didnt put it clearly enough

all I said was they threw money at the nHS which is true (does not mean it got where it should or that it was not wasted) and there was a lot of building in the Labour years which is true I then said there was a lot of cock ups which is true.

i said this

Pesty said:

Yes they cocked it all up with the agenda for change and other things including PFI etc etc

see yes they cocked up agenda for change its there in my second post.

All I said was I dont think you cant blame this particular issue at Stafford at their (labours) feet. Plenty of other stuff on the other hand..........

Yes A&E targets etc etc that came from governemt may have played their part so perhaps yes some blame there but basic care should still have been there. After all these targets are for all other hospitals as well.

Edited by Pesty on Tuesday 9th November 12:24

[Mojocvh]

Pesty said:

I travel a lot

With a transit & van?

[Pesty]

Any old iron?

[mph1977]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

http://www.cancer.nhs.uk/

http://www.improvement.nhs.uk/cancer/


"The Cancer Plan states that the government believes the ultimate goal should be to "offer patients a maximum one month wait from an urgent referral for suspected cancer to the beginning of treatment. Where patients wait longer, this should be because of the needs of the diagnostic process or their personal choice, not because of in-built delays in the system of care." "we hope to acheive this goal by 2008"
"


http://www.performance.doh.gov.uk/cancerwaits/2008...