BMW Z4 - Changing from Runflat Tyres - Suspension change?
Discussion
I recently bought a BMW Z4 3.0i 2003. I love the car on smooth roads, but it can be a bit of a handful on country roads. It tends to tramline, and often the car violently changes direction when hitting a small pothole! The ride is very hard.
I have read on this forum that the problems I am experiencing could be down to the runflat tyres, so I contacted my local BMW dealer to ask their advice. They said the suspension on the Z4 is only set-up for runflats and, if I was to change to conventional tyres, the handling would be terrible.
So I have a few questions:-
1) Does anyone have definitive experience of changing away from runflats on a Z4, and does it make a difference to the handling?
2) Which non-runflat tyres would you recommend?
3) Does the suspension, springs or damping have to be altered?
Cheers
Jonathan
I have read on this forum that the problems I am experiencing could be down to the runflat tyres, so I contacted my local BMW dealer to ask their advice. They said the suspension on the Z4 is only set-up for runflats and, if I was to change to conventional tyres, the handling would be terrible.
So I have a few questions:-
1) Does anyone have definitive experience of changing away from runflats on a Z4, and does it make a difference to the handling?
2) Which non-runflat tyres would you recommend?
3) Does the suspension, springs or damping have to be altered?
Cheers
Jonathan
jonathanmh said:
I recently bought a BMW Z4 3.0i 2003. I love the car on smooth roads, but it can be a bit of a handful on country roads. It tends to tramline, and often the car violently changes direction when hitting a small pothole! The ride is very hard.
I have read on this forum that the problems I am experiencing could be down to the runflat tyres, so I contacted my local BMW dealer to ask their advice. They said the suspension on the Z4 is only set-up for runflats and, if I was to change to conventional tyres, the handling would be terrible.
So I have a few questions:-
1) Does anyone have definitive experience of changing away from runflats on a Z4, and does it make a difference to the handling?
2) Which non-runflat tyres would you recommend?
3) Does the suspension, springs or damping have to be altered?
Cheers
Jonathan
Yes.I have read on this forum that the problems I am experiencing could be down to the runflat tyres, so I contacted my local BMW dealer to ask their advice. They said the suspension on the Z4 is only set-up for runflats and, if I was to change to conventional tyres, the handling would be terrible.
So I have a few questions:-
1) Does anyone have definitive experience of changing away from runflats on a Z4, and does it make a difference to the handling?
2) Which non-runflat tyres would you recommend?
3) Does the suspension, springs or damping have to be altered?
Cheers
Jonathan
Wifies 3.0Si Coupe - all the symptoms you described. Went to 19's and regular tyres and it was massively better. No suspension changes needed.
BMW Dealers will always tow the corporate line.
Mrs Peppermint has a Z4 3.0Si Cpe, came with run-flats on - Soon changed to proper tyres (Vreds) now handles like it should.
No suspension changes needed - BMW will advise against removing run-flats probably because they are the OE spec and BMW dealers have to adhere to that (officially) - Changing the suspension settings doesn't make any sense to me - Why?
Everyone I have met who has put proper performance tyres on a Z4 have said it has improved the handling, ride and grip and they haven't changed the suspension (me & Mrs P echo that) - So what are BMW on about! Probably just wanting to charge you money for nothing!
As far as I am concerned it liberates the car
Mrs P is very happy and she can drive a bit!
No suspension changes needed - BMW will advise against removing run-flats probably because they are the OE spec and BMW dealers have to adhere to that (officially) - Changing the suspension settings doesn't make any sense to me - Why?
Everyone I have met who has put proper performance tyres on a Z4 have said it has improved the handling, ride and grip and they haven't changed the suspension (me & Mrs P echo that) - So what are BMW on about! Probably just wanting to charge you money for nothing!
As far as I am concerned it liberates the car
Mrs P is very happy and she can drive a bit!
Thank you everyone for your replies. I really didn't expect so much help on this subject. The links and other forums really helped.
I have since found out that it is not just BMW dealers that are negative. I phoned a local tyre dealer yesterday and they told me my insurance will go up up £500 per year, and the tyre deflation indicator will be on permanently, if I use non-runflat tyres!
I did find a friendly local tyre dealer who was quite positive. They sound like they won't damage my rims when they remove the runflats!
So, I have made the decision to definitely get rid of the runflats. The question is which tyre do I go for? These are the tyres I have narrowed it down to, and the prices to change the whole set, excluding fitting. Prices were cheapest from Camskill. Black Circles were more expensive.
1) Falken ZE912 - £318.20
2) Falken FK452 - £328.90
3) Kumho Ecsta KU31 - £352.20
4) Vredestein Ultra Sessanta - £518.40
5) Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 - £518.80
6) Pirelli P-Zero Nero - £553.62
7) Michelin Pilot Sport 3 - £628.00
As you can see there is a huge jump between the Falken & Kumho up to the Vredestein and above! I have been thoroughly recommended the Vredestein, but I don't think they are as cheap as they used to be. And, at that price, should I be going for the Goodyear Eagles?
The other doubt I have is, although the Falken FK452's have lots of positive comments, are the comments only good because they are simply the cheapest?!
Decisions, Decisions!
Jonathan
I have since found out that it is not just BMW dealers that are negative. I phoned a local tyre dealer yesterday and they told me my insurance will go up up £500 per year, and the tyre deflation indicator will be on permanently, if I use non-runflat tyres!
I did find a friendly local tyre dealer who was quite positive. They sound like they won't damage my rims when they remove the runflats!
So, I have made the decision to definitely get rid of the runflats. The question is which tyre do I go for? These are the tyres I have narrowed it down to, and the prices to change the whole set, excluding fitting. Prices were cheapest from Camskill. Black Circles were more expensive.
1) Falken ZE912 - £318.20
2) Falken FK452 - £328.90
3) Kumho Ecsta KU31 - £352.20
4) Vredestein Ultra Sessanta - £518.40
5) Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 - £518.80
6) Pirelli P-Zero Nero - £553.62
7) Michelin Pilot Sport 3 - £628.00
As you can see there is a huge jump between the Falken & Kumho up to the Vredestein and above! I have been thoroughly recommended the Vredestein, but I don't think they are as cheap as they used to be. And, at that price, should I be going for the Goodyear Eagles?
The other doubt I have is, although the Falken FK452's have lots of positive comments, are the comments only good because they are simply the cheapest?!
Decisions, Decisions!
Jonathan
I think Falkens are popular because they represent value for money. I have read one or two negative posts about them though, as they've worn, and they don't offer any rim protection, unlike some others.
I thought about GSD3s but I emailed Goodyear and it sems they've been superceded now by the F1 Asymmetrics. Still a good tyre, though softer sidewall I think I read, but if you need to replace one in 6 months, availability might be a problem. I saw somewhere there were grey imports too, and problems with sidewall bulges, possibly related, nothing confirmed.
I believe the tyre pressure warning light operates differently in UK to US cars. Uk works via the ABS, US via a tps (I think) Mine's not been affected.
Getting the rfts off is where there's a potential risk of damage because itt akes so much more effort. My local fitter managed, but with some difficulty.
My F1s were £600, though I suspect cheaper is possible. I'm very happy with them -the car seems sharper and almost lower (same pressures) after 500 miles of settling in. No tramlining, no skipping over minor bumps. I don't use the Z that much and when I've not used it for a while they seem to take a little while to settle in and I've noticed a littl pressure drop - probably to be expected.
Did you look here? http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/ Plently of friendly help.
I thought about GSD3s but I emailed Goodyear and it sems they've been superceded now by the F1 Asymmetrics. Still a good tyre, though softer sidewall I think I read, but if you need to replace one in 6 months, availability might be a problem. I saw somewhere there were grey imports too, and problems with sidewall bulges, possibly related, nothing confirmed.
I believe the tyre pressure warning light operates differently in UK to US cars. Uk works via the ABS, US via a tps (I think) Mine's not been affected.
Getting the rfts off is where there's a potential risk of damage because itt akes so much more effort. My local fitter managed, but with some difficulty.
My F1s were £600, though I suspect cheaper is possible. I'm very happy with them -the car seems sharper and almost lower (same pressures) after 500 miles of settling in. No tramlining, no skipping over minor bumps. I don't use the Z that much and when I've not used it for a while they seem to take a little while to settle in and I've noticed a littl pressure drop - probably to be expected.
Did you look here? http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/ Plently of friendly help.
Looks as though the Vreds have gone up a bit since I bought in June. Assuming you have the standard 18" setup, have a look here - http://www.elitedirect.com/Tyres/Tyre-Details-By-B...
£445 delivered.
Strangely, the 225/40 is the same price as the the 255/35, used to be slightly cheaper
£445 delivered.
Strangely, the 225/40 is the same price as the the 255/35, used to be slightly cheaper
I have used Falken FK452 on numerous vehicles for many years (including a 450bhp RWD Skyline) - No complaints, IMHO they are about the best low cost performance tyre available (the FK452 does have a rim protector too). Have to say they are useless in snow though!
The 452 had a serious contender in the Vred Ultrac Sessanta which for a while was at a very similar price, they do seem to have gone up quite a bit at most places now which to me makes them slightly less attractive.
Yes, I have tried the Vreds too - My wife has them on her Z4 at the mo' - I would say they are marginally better than the 452 in overall terms. They are highly rated on the Z4 forum, lots of members there have fitted them and really rate them.
There is no question though better performance will be had from Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetrical or Michelin PS2... I have tried both and would say the Michelin isn't the stand out choice it used to be. The GY F1 Asymm's are truly excellent!
If you can afford them you will not regret it.... If you are on a budget either the Vreds (if you can get them for a good price) if not Falken FK452 would me where I would spend my money - Avoid the other Falkens, tried them and hated them (poor grip, rapid wear).
To throw another into the mix I really rate the Continental Sport Contact 3 I have on my Z4M - A fantastic all-rounder... I find their grip and feedback in the wet phenominal and dry weather grip is exceptionally high - There aren't many other people I have come across that rate them as highly as me, in fact they are positively slated on the Z4 forum... Perhaps they suit me and my driving style, also I do tend to run them at higher pressures than others on the Z4 forum do... Works for me though and they seem to be lasting forever (despite spirited use - I do not slide the car).
Tyre choice is subjective but the above has been my experience, I hope it may be of some help to you
The 452 had a serious contender in the Vred Ultrac Sessanta which for a while was at a very similar price, they do seem to have gone up quite a bit at most places now which to me makes them slightly less attractive.
Yes, I have tried the Vreds too - My wife has them on her Z4 at the mo' - I would say they are marginally better than the 452 in overall terms. They are highly rated on the Z4 forum, lots of members there have fitted them and really rate them.
There is no question though better performance will be had from Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetrical or Michelin PS2... I have tried both and would say the Michelin isn't the stand out choice it used to be. The GY F1 Asymm's are truly excellent!
If you can afford them you will not regret it.... If you are on a budget either the Vreds (if you can get them for a good price) if not Falken FK452 would me where I would spend my money - Avoid the other Falkens, tried them and hated them (poor grip, rapid wear).
To throw another into the mix I really rate the Continental Sport Contact 3 I have on my Z4M - A fantastic all-rounder... I find their grip and feedback in the wet phenominal and dry weather grip is exceptionally high - There aren't many other people I have come across that rate them as highly as me, in fact they are positively slated on the Z4 forum... Perhaps they suit me and my driving style, also I do tend to run them at higher pressures than others on the Z4 forum do... Works for me though and they seem to be lasting forever (despite spirited use - I do not slide the car).
Tyre choice is subjective but the above has been my experience, I hope it may be of some help to you
AC Schnitzer said:
My vote would go for Continental Sport Contact 3 or 5, we use them all the time. They are not as expensive as some but they track beautifully are great in the wet, wear very well and give loads of grip.
We have done this for many customers and all are very pleased with the results.
Another fan of Continental Sport Contact 3 - So many slate them but for me they are the best all round tyre I have yet come across. Stunned by their wet grip and feedback... And I can really lean on them in the dry with confidence and security. Furthermore despite spirited driving they are lasting ages! We have done this for many customers and all are very pleased with the results.
Am very impressed with them. I found on my car higher pressures (34frt 36rear) gets more performance from them.
Seen a couple of mag tyre reviews recently where they scored well too!
Edited by Peppermint on Friday 12th November 20:40
Don't change your suspension thats silly... Verds are great had 2 sets of funflats on my 2003 3.0 then changed to Verds and made a significant difference.. still does not handle like my old elise s2 (obviously) or even my sisters boxster! intrestingly my cousin has a Z4M coupe which I have driven a couple of times and that is a slighty better handler but the engine feels very simlar to about 3-3.5 000rpms then the M really comes into its own, but day to day stuff they are very similar! would take the M though!! going back to the tyres the Verds are great. Car magazine ran there long term 3.0 Z4 on them and if you do a google search you can find their review...
Edited by outdoormax on Tuesday 16th November 15:48
So I took the plunge!
I went for the Falken FK452's, simply because I got them for £400, fitted, from my local tyre dealer. No hassle ordering online and then getting someone else to fit them. I really wanted the Vredestein's, but couldn't justify the extra £160, when the Falkens were rated so highly. The same goes for the other tyres that were recommended.
What a difference!
The car no longer:-
1) Knocks your teeth out over every bump.
2) Tries to wrench the wheel out of your hands and put you in a ditch when hitting a pothole.
3) Puts you in the path of oncoming traffic.
Everyone was 100% correct about the Falkens needing some miles to get rid of the slippery coating. It took me about 50 miles of spirited driving before the traction control light stopped coming on all the time. Now, they grip equally as well as the run-flats, and I would say they are even better in the wet. They clear water really well.
And what a load of rubbish about the insurance premium going up when changing from runflats! I called my insurance company and they said they don't care as long as the car has road-legal tyres!
Also, the tyre pressure indicator isn't on permanently now I have the Falkens on, like one tyre dealer suggested!
It really annoys me when people comment on stuff they know absolutely nothing about. Thank heavens for this forum, where I got definitive answers from people who have had hands-on experience. Thank you everyone, I am now a very happy chap!
Just a shame BMW are so defensive of the runflats. If they weren't, so many more people would be even happier with their Z4's. If I have the time I may even share my views with BMW UK!
I went for the Falken FK452's, simply because I got them for £400, fitted, from my local tyre dealer. No hassle ordering online and then getting someone else to fit them. I really wanted the Vredestein's, but couldn't justify the extra £160, when the Falkens were rated so highly. The same goes for the other tyres that were recommended.
What a difference!
The car no longer:-
1) Knocks your teeth out over every bump.
2) Tries to wrench the wheel out of your hands and put you in a ditch when hitting a pothole.
3) Puts you in the path of oncoming traffic.
Everyone was 100% correct about the Falkens needing some miles to get rid of the slippery coating. It took me about 50 miles of spirited driving before the traction control light stopped coming on all the time. Now, they grip equally as well as the run-flats, and I would say they are even better in the wet. They clear water really well.
And what a load of rubbish about the insurance premium going up when changing from runflats! I called my insurance company and they said they don't care as long as the car has road-legal tyres!
Also, the tyre pressure indicator isn't on permanently now I have the Falkens on, like one tyre dealer suggested!
It really annoys me when people comment on stuff they know absolutely nothing about. Thank heavens for this forum, where I got definitive answers from people who have had hands-on experience. Thank you everyone, I am now a very happy chap!
Just a shame BMW are so defensive of the runflats. If they weren't, so many more people would be even happier with their Z4's. If I have the time I may even share my views with BMW UK!
good for you. i have falkens on my 130i and they are much better than the runflats
as you mentioned, getting them fitted is sometimes tricky - i was refused point blank by two garages saying it invalidated my warranty, insurance and would adversely affect the handling. The fist two are nothing to do with them, and the third one is subjective
as you mentioned, getting them fitted is sometimes tricky - i was refused point blank by two garages saying it invalidated my warranty, insurance and would adversely affect the handling. The fist two are nothing to do with them, and the third one is subjective
Peppermint said:
AC Schnitzer said:
My vote would go for Continental Sport Contact 3 or 5, we use them all the time. They are not as expensive as some but they track beautifully are great in the wet, wear very well and give loads of grip.
We have done this for many customers and all are very pleased with the results.
Another fan of Continental Sport Contact 3 - So many slate them but for me they are the best all round tyre I have yet come across. Stunned by their wet grip and feedback... And I can really lean on them in the dry with confidence and security. Furthermore despite spirited driving they are lasting ages! We have done this for many customers and all are very pleased with the results.
Am very impressed with them. I found on my car higher pressures (34frt 36rear) gets more performance from them.
Seen a couple of mag tyre reviews recently where they scored well too!
Edited by Peppermint on Friday 12th November 20:40
I've got CSC3's on my Clio 172 and on the front of my Boxster, i've always been very impressed with them but will have to not use them on the boxster anymore as they don't make them in a 265/35/18, i thought i'd then go for the CSC5's but they don't them in that size either. so i've moved on to Goodyear F1 asymetricals and am really happy with them
the Z4 is currently on the Bridgestone run flats as that's what was on it when i bought it, other than some tramlining and quite a hard (but not unreasonable) ride i think they're ok, saying that though as soon as they need changing they'll be coming off and will be replaced by either CSC3's or the Goodyears.
my only concern about taking them off is damaging the rim on the 108's due to how hard the sidewall of the RFT's is, has everyone else been ok when changing them over?
the Z4 is currently on the Bridgestone run flats as that's what was on it when i bought it, other than some tramlining and quite a hard (but not unreasonable) ride i think they're ok, saying that though as soon as they need changing they'll be coming off and will be replaced by either CSC3's or the Goodyears.
my only concern about taking them off is damaging the rim on the 108's due to how hard the sidewall of the RFT's is, has everyone else been ok when changing them over?
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