Audi & Front Wheel Drive-Comparable Cost To RWD Competition
Discussion
How much extra does it cost to develop and manufacture a car with rear wheel drive?
Is Audi's reputation as a prestige marque justified if they cost considerably less to manufacture and develop or are Audi more aware than most that the car buying public couldn't give a toss if a car is rear, front, or all wheel drive?
i.e. do Audi rely on consumer ignorance or could the same be said about the rear wheel drive marques??
Wouldn't mind an Audi S5 though...
Is Audi's reputation as a prestige marque justified if they cost considerably less to manufacture and develop or are Audi more aware than most that the car buying public couldn't give a toss if a car is rear, front, or all wheel drive?
i.e. do Audi rely on consumer ignorance or could the same be said about the rear wheel drive marques??
Wouldn't mind an Audi S5 though...
John D. said:
I thought Audi's design philosophy was based around safe predictable handling. Hence quattro systems and the engine slung out beyond the front axle giving understeer inducing weight distribution. Surely using fwd is just an extension of that?
That in a way, is my point. With front or all wheel drive there would possibly be less chassis development and testing and the fact Audi stick the engine way out front seems...lazy to me. Their mantra may well be safe predictable handling but surely with a bit more development they could push the engine further back in the bay and have even better handling? The whole ethos behind the company seems to rely heavily on the "Quattro" branding.
I think the basic 'quattro' layout (engineering-wise) has to be nose-heavy - I remember reading that they had to do some re-engineering with the RS4 to get the weight-distribution better. So it's more down to where they've led themselves BY this focus on "Quattro".
As for 'premium product' - no more so than MINI, IMHO*. Design-led and majoring on perceived quality over reliability, and on grip over handling.
Yes, I know that's the stereotypical view, but the managers at work have them as company-cars now (changed from BMW just before I joined 4 years ago), and those managers who 'drive' aren't as happy...those who pose or who THINK they drive love them...until things go wrong...but then the old 3-series weren't great there either. Revealingly, Audi and Saab were the only two 'premium marques' willing to quote when we put out for the new corporate tender last year.
* R8 excluded.
As for 'premium product' - no more so than MINI, IMHO*. Design-led and majoring on perceived quality over reliability, and on grip over handling.
Yes, I know that's the stereotypical view, but the managers at work have them as company-cars now (changed from BMW just before I joined 4 years ago), and those managers who 'drive' aren't as happy...those who pose or who THINK they drive love them...until things go wrong...but then the old 3-series weren't great there either. Revealingly, Audi and Saab were the only two 'premium marques' willing to quote when we put out for the new corporate tender last year.
* R8 excluded.
bodhi said:
It's because Audis are just plain wrong.......
No but seriously, isn't it because they are mostly based on VW's, which are genrally FWD? Then they just connect drive to the back wheels as well, and off they go.
Bingo.No but seriously, isn't it because they are mostly based on VW's, which are genrally FWD? Then they just connect drive to the back wheels as well, and off they go.
Audi don't design the chassis of their cars, they get given a CAD model from VW and put a (slightly, very slightly) different body around it.
daveco said:
How much extra does it cost to develop and manufacture a car with rear wheel drive?
Is Audi's reputation as a prestige marque justified if they cost considerably less to manufacture and develop or are Audi more aware than most that the car buying public couldn't give a toss if a car is rear, front, or all wheel drive?
i.e. do Audi rely on consumer ignorance or could the same be said about the rear wheel drive marques??
Wouldn't mind an Audi S5 though...
Personally I think the RWD/FWD thing isn't even scratching the surface.Is Audi's reputation as a prestige marque justified if they cost considerably less to manufacture and develop or are Audi more aware than most that the car buying public couldn't give a toss if a car is rear, front, or all wheel drive?
i.e. do Audi rely on consumer ignorance or could the same be said about the rear wheel drive marques??
Wouldn't mind an Audi S5 though...
It's an old bug bear of mine (and an age old argument) but it is well known that VAG share their chassis, suspension, engine, switchgear and most other components with the rest of the VAG brand.
This would be fine if all the above components were so good that buying a Skoda was the bargain of the century. However, whilst they do some things well, think that Audi's are like paying top dollar for (in most cases) average engineering.
Apart from the 'S' range and the R8 I think all Audi's should much cheaper than BMW/Merc.
doogz said:
Cost Captain said:
bodhi said:
It's because Audis are just plain wrong.......
No but seriously, isn't it because they are mostly based on VW's, which are genrally FWD? Then they just connect drive to the back wheels as well, and off they go.
Bingo.No but seriously, isn't it because they are mostly based on VW's, which are genrally FWD? Then they just connect drive to the back wheels as well, and off they go.
Audi don't design the chassis of their cars, they get given a CAD model from VW and put a (slightly, very slightly) different body around it.
Edited by doogz on Thursday 11th November 12:49
doogz said:
Cost Captain said:
bodhi said:
It's because Audis are just plain wrong.......
No but seriously, isn't it because they are mostly based on VW's, which are genrally FWD? Then they just connect drive to the back wheels as well, and off they go.
Bingo.No but seriously, isn't it because they are mostly based on VW's, which are genrally FWD? Then they just connect drive to the back wheels as well, and off they go.
Audi don't design the chassis of their cars, they get given a CAD model from VW and put a (slightly, very slightly) different body around it.
Yet the larger saloons are all genuinely Quattro-able - it's all to do with the orientation of the powertrain. Much as I'm not a fan, I am at least aware that a lot of the (larger) Audi platforms are designed FOR Audi from the start, rather than reverse-engineered.
Fatman2 said:
daveco said:
How much extra does it cost to develop and manufacture a car with rear wheel drive?
Is Audi's reputation as a prestige marque justified if they cost considerably less to manufacture and develop or are Audi more aware than most that the car buying public couldn't give a toss if a car is rear, front, or all wheel drive?
i.e. do Audi rely on consumer ignorance or could the same be said about the rear wheel drive marques??
Wouldn't mind an Audi S5 though...
Personally I think the RWD/FWD thing isn't even scratching the surface.Is Audi's reputation as a prestige marque justified if they cost considerably less to manufacture and develop or are Audi more aware than most that the car buying public couldn't give a toss if a car is rear, front, or all wheel drive?
i.e. do Audi rely on consumer ignorance or could the same be said about the rear wheel drive marques??
Wouldn't mind an Audi S5 though...
It's an old bug bear of mine (and an age old argument) but it is well known that VAG share their chassis, suspension, engine, switchgear and most other components with the rest of the VAG brand.
This would be fine if all the above components were so good that buying a Skoda was the bargain of the century. However, whilst they do some things well, think that Audi's are like paying top dollar for (in most cases) average engineering.
Apart from the 'S' range and the R8 I think all Audi's should much cheaper than BMW/Merc.
daveco said:
Fatman2 said:
daveco said:
How much extra does it cost to develop and manufacture a car with rear wheel drive?
Is Audi's reputation as a prestige marque justified if they cost considerably less to manufacture and develop or are Audi more aware than most that the car buying public couldn't give a toss if a car is rear, front, or all wheel drive?
i.e. do Audi rely on consumer ignorance or could the same be said about the rear wheel drive marques??
Wouldn't mind an Audi S5 though...
Personally I think the RWD/FWD thing isn't even scratching the surface.Is Audi's reputation as a prestige marque justified if they cost considerably less to manufacture and develop or are Audi more aware than most that the car buying public couldn't give a toss if a car is rear, front, or all wheel drive?
i.e. do Audi rely on consumer ignorance or could the same be said about the rear wheel drive marques??
Wouldn't mind an Audi S5 though...
It's an old bug bear of mine (and an age old argument) but it is well known that VAG share their chassis, suspension, engine, switchgear and most other components with the rest of the VAG brand.
This would be fine if all the above components were so good that buying a Skoda was the bargain of the century. However, whilst they do some things well, think that Audi's are like paying top dollar for (in most cases) average engineering.
Apart from the 'S' range and the R8 I think all Audi's should much cheaper than BMW/Merc.
a) if the critical parts of the car i.e. chassis, engine, suspension. drivetrain etc. were genuinely worth Audi prices then VAG would be making a loss with Skoda, SEAT and VW.
b) as VAG brands are profitable (haven't heard press to say otherwise) then these critical components cannot be worth Audi prices as no business would operate at an overall loss.
c) given b) then VAG cars must be engineered to Skoda/SEAT/VW price levels (at best) as it is not good business sense to have any one brand making a total loss.
d) the only major difference between any of the 4 brands is simply packaging i.e. body shell.
e) given d), Audi's are like putting a Tesco value lasagne in Tesco finest packaging. Having shopped in Tesco for years I see lot's of people buy Tesco finest lasagne
Cost Captain said:
doogz said:
Cost Captain said:
bodhi said:
It's because Audis are just plain wrong.......
No but seriously, isn't it because they are mostly based on VW's, which are genrally FWD? Then they just connect drive to the back wheels as well, and off they go.
Bingo.No but seriously, isn't it because they are mostly based on VW's, which are genrally FWD? Then they just connect drive to the back wheels as well, and off they go.
Audi don't design the chassis of their cars, they get given a CAD model from VW and put a (slightly, very slightly) different body around it.
Edited by doogz on Thursday 11th November 12:49
Most of the other VAG cars that share platforms from Audi are based on the Audi platform, not vice versa.
doogz said:
Fatman2 said:
^^ I think you missed the bit where I said "apart from the 'S' range" i.e. the 3.0 V6 4WD cars
I believe were were just discussing 'regular' models so aren't really talking top of the range stuff. The OP was comparing RWD with FWD to which my post above applies.
The 3.0 V6 4WD A4 isn't an "S-car"I believe were were just discussing 'regular' models so aren't really talking top of the range stuff. The OP was comparing RWD with FWD to which my post above applies.
It's an A4. A regular model, as you put it.
So,
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