BMW 330d vs 325d

[junglie]

The E90 shape, and indeed the E60 5 series, uses both of these engines. They are both 3.0l but the 325d is less powerful - is this due to different injectors turbo etc or simply an ECU map?

I can buy a better spec / lower miles / newer 325d than a 330d but if it can be easily bought up to the similar power with a simple map (DMS or similar) then probably worth it - otherwise you will always be wishing you had bought the 330d!

Going to test a 330i / 530i (hopefully with the 258 / 272 bhp engines also) as a comparison as I do not necessarily need a diesel and they are lovel engines.

Thanks for the help.

[homerjay]

once you drive the 330i, the 325d v 330d question will become obsolete.

[edo]

don't know the physical differences, but DMS claim to be able to get a 325d to 330d levels:

245 hp and 485 Nm (up from 197 hp and 400 Nm)

[soda]

The 2 engines share the same block but there are a few differences, injectors being one of them.

However if fuel costs aren't such an issue the 30i is a fantastic engine.

[junglie]

I have always had straight 6 petrol BMWs and think they are brilliant but there is something appealing about a big derv drinker and all that torques for effortless progress. I loved my Z4 but that was a second car and driven when you wanted a hit of 6,000 rpm smoothness - this one will be the daily motorway commuter and so a different set of criteria to fulfill.

Petrol costs not so much of an issue but always factor in there somewhere to more or less of a degree. My concern with the diesel side of things is the big bills that seem to loom over modern diesels - turbos, injectors, swirl flap ingestion etc. The big petrols seem so much more sturdy.

[dcb]

homerjay said:

once you drive the 330i, the 325d v 330d question will become obsolete.

Really ?

The accountants amongst us will already have noted that
the 330i is group 17 insurance, but the 330D is group 15,
so some saving there and 43 mpg from the 330D
versus 31 mpg from the 330i is another saving.

They are both 150 mph chariots, so neither are
laggards. There is about 2p a litre difference
between petrol and diesel locally.

The 330D is going to have to drive pretty badly and
sound atrocious to survive numbers like that.

[briers]

dcb said:

homerjay said:

once you drive the 330i, the 325d v 330d question will become obsolete.

Really ?

The accountants amongst us will already have noted that
the 330i is group 17 insurance, but the 330D is group 15,
so some saving there and 43 mpg from the 330D
versus 31 mpg from the 330i is another saving.

They are both 150 mph chariots, so neither are
laggards. There is about 2p a litre difference
between petrol and diesel locally.

The 330D is going to have to drive pretty badly and
sound atrocious to survive numbers like that.

Numbers are boring when your talking about a 3 series chasis and arguably the best non M N/A engine in the bmw range. The 330i is an absolute peach. Cliche, but unless you do 20k p/a the 330i would have my money anyday.

330d to answer the question. But 330i overall.

[carl0s]

>2007 330i is on the cards for my next work car I think. I want an automatic with a reasonably sized engine, and I don't want diesel lag. The 2007 onwards 330i seems to return good economy, and lovely performance figures too.

[junglie]

All good points so far - I am looking between £10 - 12k and have seen a nice 330i SE but I would want an M Sport package as I think it looks great. I have only owned the 231 bhp engine (M54?) and it was lovely - is there that much of a difference between that and the 258 / 272?

[RobM77]

The Crack Fox said:

homerjay said:

once you drive the 330i, the 325d v 330d question will become obsolete.

Not for me I drove a 135i, 130i, M3 and owned a 330i, but bought a 320d last week through an open and informed choice. It's mainly the laggy throttle that petrol engine BMWs have E46 onwards - I can't stand it.

Having said that, if you don't mind the throttle lag, I'm 100% with you - the 3 litre straight six is an utterly fabulous engine

[carl0s]

Don't forget about broken auto boxes. If you are looking at an auto anyway.
The diesels seem to break the autoboxes, and almost guarantee eventual destruction once remapped..

Interweb is full of stories of broken 330d autos. Another reason to either go for the petrol, or avoid BMW altogether if there's something else out there that suits you.

[briers]

junglie said:

All good points so far - I am looking between £10 - 12k and have seen a nice 330i SE but I would want an M Sport package as I think it looks great. I have only owned the 231 bhp engine (M54?) and it was lovely - is there that much of a difference between that and the 258 / 272?

I prefer the older engine, sounds better and feels better, think it has a bit more lower down. Can't quite put my finger on it.

Anyway, what you will miss out on is the excellent economy, frankly astonishing economy to be honest for a petrol with power + amazing co2 figures that you get from the latest incarnation. So a bit of a trade off.

And try and get the m-sport. On the SE 330's and below you dont get the suspension mods or the nicer seats so an m-sport is worth it even if it means you loose extras like xenons, bluetooth and maybe idrive to hit your budget. Try and find an e92 and you get a few extras as standard anyway. It would be criminal not to get a 330i in manual but clearly not everyone agree's with me as manuals can be as rare as rocking horse st.

Edited by briers on Friday 12th November 23:19

[LongLiveTazio]

RobM77 said:

Not for me I drove a 135i, 130i, M3 and owned a 330i, but bought a 320d last week through an open and informed choice. It's mainly the laggy throttle that petrol engine BMWs have E46 onwards - I can't stand it.

Having said that, if you don't mind the throttle lag, I'm 100% with you - the 3 litre straight six is an utterly fabulous engine

And BMW diesels don't have laggy throttles? It's the same system on both petrol and diesel.

[RobM77]

LongLiveTazio said:

RobM77 said:

Not for me I drove a 135i, 130i, M3 and owned a 330i, but bought a 320d last week through an open and informed choice. It's mainly the laggy throttle that petrol engine BMWs have E46 onwards - I can't stand it.

Having said that, if you don't mind the throttle lag, I'm 100% with you - the 3 litre straight six is an utterly fabulous engine

And BMW diesels don't have laggy throttles? It's the same system on both petrol and diesel.

Nope. Completely different intake and emissions engineering on diesels compared to petrol. If you look on You Tube I've filmed my 320d and my recently departed Z4C (N52 3.0 I6) to show the difference. I sorely miss the Z4C's grunt, flexibility, revs and sound, but the smooth drive of the 320d is very welcome and I can just get on and enjoy the chassis.

[LongLiveTazio]

The electronic throttle control (EML) is the same on all new models. Sorry if you can't feel it but the lag is there.

[Tea Pot One]

carl0s said:

Don't forget about broken auto boxes. If you are looking at an auto anyway.
The diesels seem to break the autoboxes, and almost guarantee eventual destruction once remapped..

Interweb is full of stories of broken 330d autos. Another reason to either go for the petrol, or avoid BMW altogether if there's something else out there that suits you.

We have been using 530d auto's as Police Traffic cars for years .... covering thousands of miles 24/7. I don't think in the last 8+ years I have known of an auto box going bang ... they have been superb !

Self levelling suspension has been another matter on a few

[carl0s]

Tea Pot One said:

carl0s said:

Don't forget about broken auto boxes. If you are looking at an auto anyway.
The diesels seem to break the autoboxes, and almost guarantee eventual destruction once remapped..

Interweb is full of stories of broken 330d autos. Another reason to either go for the petrol, or avoid BMW altogether if there's something else out there that suits you.

We have been using 530d auto's as Police Traffic cars for years .... covering thousands of miles 24/7. I don't think in the last 8+ years I have known of an auto box going bang ... they have been superb !

Self levelling suspension has been another matter on a few

Perhaps it's just on chipped cars then.
I was looking at E46 330Ds and t'interweb was full of reports. Won't go in reverse, all sorts of other odd problems. Seemed commonplace, and very few used boxes available because they're often breaking.

[carl0s]

Tea Pot One said:

carl0s said:

Don't forget about broken auto boxes. If you are looking at an auto anyway.
The diesels seem to break the autoboxes, and almost guarantee eventual destruction once remapped..

Interweb is full of stories of broken 330d autos. Another reason to either go for the petrol, or avoid BMW altogether if there's something else out there that suits you.

We have been using 530d auto's as Police Traffic cars for years .... covering thousands of miles 24/7. I don't think in the last 8+ years I have known of an auto box going bang ... they have been superb !

Self levelling suspension has been another matter on a few

Or how about this, from a thread that you started last week:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

The_Doc said:

Superchips did my E46 330d at 37,000 miles on the clock. 184->210bhp

auto gearbox gave up the ghost at 117,000 (hard) miles.

£1700 for a reconditioned box.

People say the auto box is pretty tough, but nothing lasts forever

You might say that it's OK, because the box managed 80,000 miles while chipped. The problem is that I would be looking to buy a used, sub £10k car, which will already have a minimum of 70, maybe 80 thousand miles on it.

Edited by carl0s on Saturday 13th November 01:02

[junglie]

I am still leaning towards the 330i at present and either will most definitely be a manual.

I think that the economy from the modern petrols, plus their reliability, makes them a good choice. My Z4 would get 38 mpg on the motorway if you were cruising and 33 mpg overall in mixed conditions which is great. If the 330i will do 34 mpg on the motorway (most of my time will be spent there) then it makes sense - factor in the higher initial price of the diesel, the issues with parts (turbos, injectors etc) and you would have to be doing to the moon and back annual mileage to even get anywhere near even.

That said, the more relaxed driving technique relying on that big slug o' diesel torque must be fun - the next step is of course the 335i but I think £15k+ will be the entry level there.

Decisions, decisions........

[Fox-]

dcb said:

homerjay said:

once you drive the 330i, the 325d v 330d question will become obsolete.

Really ?

The accountants amongst us will already have noted that
the 330i is group 17 insurance, but the 330D is group 15,
so some saving there and 43 mpg from the 330D
versus 31 mpg from the 330i is another saving.

They are both 150 mph chariots, so neither are
laggards. There is about 2p a litre difference
between petrol and diesel locally.

The 330D is going to have to drive pretty badly and
sound atrocious to survive numbers like that.

Or maybe you just need to look up the right numbers. The 07 onwards 330i (ie same age as the 3.0 325ds) actually has a combined consumption figure of 39 mpg. And unless you are 17 the insurance difference is pennies.