Golf GT TDi or Focus ST170
Discussion
I'm on a bit of a cost saving excercise and since taking back my work lease car I've decided to get a cheap run around for the time being.
I've narrowed it down to 2 cars with the budget I'm willing to spend. I want to spend around £2,500 and I want something that's going to relatively cheap and easy to run, not something that I will have to constantly being servicing or replacing parts on.
Anyway, in this price range I've seen a few golf GT TDi 130s with around 90k on the clock, and a few Focus ST170 with similar mileage.
The question is which to go for. Golf would be cheaper and more practical to run, the focus would probably be slightly more fun.
Any suggestions?
I've narrowed it down to 2 cars with the budget I'm willing to spend. I want to spend around £2,500 and I want something that's going to relatively cheap and easy to run, not something that I will have to constantly being servicing or replacing parts on.
Anyway, in this price range I've seen a few golf GT TDi 130s with around 90k on the clock, and a few Focus ST170 with similar mileage.
The question is which to go for. Golf would be cheaper and more practical to run, the focus would probably be slightly more fun.
Any suggestions?
ChezzaV8 said:
If I go for diesel I'd go for the Golf, I know they are absolutely bomb proof and run forever. Someone I work with has had his for years and is now up to 190,000 miles with out really any serious issues. I can't imagine a focus TDCi doing that...
It's a good job that your imagination isn't the benchmark for engineering certification then.Focii(?) are generally reliable.
Touché!
I think the Golf is probably the best bet. Looking at the equivalent Focus, they are similar priced, but as far as I can see you can only really get the 100 bhp one which would be pretty gutless (correct me if I'm wrong!)
Economy wise the diesel is far cheaper to run and insure, and as said, chipping it would give you that little bit extra.
I think the Golf is probably the best bet. Looking at the equivalent Focus, they are similar priced, but as far as I can see you can only really get the 100 bhp one which would be pretty gutless (correct me if I'm wrong!)
Economy wise the diesel is far cheaper to run and insure, and as said, chipping it would give you that little bit extra.
mnkiboy said:
ST170 is Insurance group 15, and averages 30mpg approx. Not a car I would class as cheap to run.
Obviously depends on your daily mileage.
How about Focus TDCi as a nice compromise.
Admittedly I've never run one for a prolonged amount of time myself, but I've heard regular-use mpg figures in the 20s for ST170s from their owners, so it could be even worse than that.Obviously depends on your daily mileage.
How about Focus TDCi as a nice compromise.
I'm a fan of the mk1 Focus and an ex-Fordie, but even I find the ST170 something of an oddity. It doesn't have that 'modest but eagre' feel that the Fiesta Zetec S and Puma had, it doesn't feel special or particularly fast in the way a Clio 182 or Civic Type R does, and it doesn't offer that much over the better spec'd standard cars.
The ST170 is deceptively quick, and quite a comfortable/well-equipped place to be, but to me it lacks the drama of a hot hatch or the cost-effectiveness of an ordinary one.
Coincidentally, the 138bhp 2-litre diesel Focus of the same era was faster around Lommel than the ST170 (although a decent one is probably out of budget) and would probably see off a Gold GT TDi too.
The Focus is a far better drivers car if that's important to you, with a nicely balanced responsive chassis and nicely weighed steering with reasonable feedback. The Golf by comparison feels wallowy and pushes the nose wide too easily, and as a driver you feel completely disconnected.
The Focus 115hp TDCi engine isn't bad either, although not as punchy or economical as the VAG unit. The older 90hp TDDi lump is somewhat agricultural.
From what I've seen/experienced, Mk4 Golf's aren't as reliable as the older 80's and early 90's models, and have numerous faults that are often expensive to repair. Not to say that a Focus is better, but I wouldn't automatically assume the Golf to be more reliable because it's German.
The Focus 115hp TDCi engine isn't bad either, although not as punchy or economical as the VAG unit. The older 90hp TDDi lump is somewhat agricultural.
From what I've seen/experienced, Mk4 Golf's aren't as reliable as the older 80's and early 90's models, and have numerous faults that are often expensive to repair. Not to say that a Focus is better, but I wouldn't automatically assume the Golf to be more reliable because it's German.
Don't expect the GT TDI to handle anything like a Focus.
I find mine pretty heavy feeling and sloppy to drive.
On the plus side the engines are very good as long as they are well maintained. Check for boost leaks and miss fires and also any noise from the dual mass flywheel as these can all be expensive and or time consuming to fix. If you can hear a rattle from the gearbox when you turn the engine off its quite likely that the DMF is on its way out. Unmapped the standard engine easily returns 50mpg in gentle mixed driving. In gear acceleration is more than adequate as standard IMHO but it is possible to remap to around 170 brake.
It's a heavy car with relatively small tyres as standard (most are 195/65s) so make sure you have some decent brand rubber on or you will find yourself experiencing unexpected oversteer at around 25mph on relatively modest bends in my experience!
Finally the GT trim seats are very comfortable and it is a very good car to mile munch in however some interior plastics are beginning to show their age. Check for things like armrest and glove box catches as these are prone to breaking.
On the whole it is a fine car for daily transport but don't expect hot hatch characteristics.
I find mine pretty heavy feeling and sloppy to drive.
On the plus side the engines are very good as long as they are well maintained. Check for boost leaks and miss fires and also any noise from the dual mass flywheel as these can all be expensive and or time consuming to fix. If you can hear a rattle from the gearbox when you turn the engine off its quite likely that the DMF is on its way out. Unmapped the standard engine easily returns 50mpg in gentle mixed driving. In gear acceleration is more than adequate as standard IMHO but it is possible to remap to around 170 brake.
It's a heavy car with relatively small tyres as standard (most are 195/65s) so make sure you have some decent brand rubber on or you will find yourself experiencing unexpected oversteer at around 25mph on relatively modest bends in my experience!
Finally the GT trim seats are very comfortable and it is a very good car to mile munch in however some interior plastics are beginning to show their age. Check for things like armrest and glove box catches as these are prone to breaking.
On the whole it is a fine car for daily transport but don't expect hot hatch characteristics.
I was going to start a new thread about this but co-incidently this thread was around. I was picking my car up the other day from the garage I go to, (very honest) and they had a TDi 150 on an 52 plate. I was sat by the phone as he described what the car had had done to it. I was shocked at the price of the injectors for this thing 400 quid each , and he had 4 of these . Plus the cam shaft had knackered so it had a new one. In total I think he was looking at over the 4 grand mark.
Note - The car had alot more done to it to, and labour costs and bosch technicians to have a look over it. It had been there for a long while. In essence this car had been totally tinkered with by the previous owners and then sold it on cheap. Not the cars fault I guess but I was genuinely shocked , In fact I probably would have to just get a new car than pay a bill that high for that type of car.
Note - The car had alot more done to it to, and labour costs and bosch technicians to have a look over it. It had been there for a long while. In essence this car had been totally tinkered with by the previous owners and then sold it on cheap. Not the cars fault I guess but I was genuinely shocked , In fact I probably would have to just get a new car than pay a bill that high for that type of car.
Stoatman said:
I was going to start a new thread about this but co-incidently this thread was around. I was picking my car up the other day from the garage I go to, (very honest) and they had a TDi 150 on an 52 plate. I was sat by the phone as he described what the car had had done to it. I was shocked at the price of the injectors for this thing 400 quid each , and he had 4 of these . Plus the cam shaft had knackered so it had a new one. In total I think he was looking at over the 4 grand mark.
Note - The car had alot more done to it to, and labour costs and bosch technicians to have a look over it. It had been there for a long while. In essence this car had been totally tinkered with by the previous owners and then sold it on cheap. Not the cars fault I guess but I was genuinely shocked , In fact I probably would have to just get a new car than pay a bill that high for that type of car.
Reliability issues are well know about with the PD 150 GT TDI. Note - The car had alot more done to it to, and labour costs and bosch technicians to have a look over it. It had been there for a long while. In essence this car had been totally tinkered with by the previous owners and then sold it on cheap. Not the cars fault I guess but I was genuinely shocked , In fact I probably would have to just get a new car than pay a bill that high for that type of car.
The PD 130 is a much better choice as it can be remapped to be more powerful than the 150, is plenty punchy enough as standard and does not suffer from the cam wear issues that the 150 does.
To avoid buying a dog with knackered injectors or clutch etc I would pay the extra cash to have an independent specialist look over the car prior to purchase and run a Vag Com check too.
In the real world the Golf will be far faster than the ST170 in most conditions.
Also the engine in the ST170 is quite rubbish, very peaky and no power anywhere other than right at the top of the rev range.
So the Golf would be my choice, far cheaper on fuel, far more punchy 95% of the time and with a remap will eat the ST170. It will never corner as well but everywhere else for me it's the better car.
Also the engine in the ST170 is quite rubbish, very peaky and no power anywhere other than right at the top of the rev range.
So the Golf would be my choice, far cheaper on fuel, far more punchy 95% of the time and with a remap will eat the ST170. It will never corner as well but everywhere else for me it's the better car.
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