E46 Wanders on all roads
Discussion
Got a e46 2004 330 sport touring which has done 75,000 miles.
The car has always been quite sensitive on the road to white lines, cambers and to any steering movements on motorways and A class roads when driving at around the speed limit. But recently the car won't stay in a straight line, it wanders on the road and you spend the whole time on motorways concentrating and making steering corrections to stay in a straight line then over compensating. On b class roads it is a struggle to keep it on the correct side of the road. Even more noticeable recently since I bought a lotus Elise and when you jump back into the BMW you realise it just won't drive in a straight line.
Car did get near side rear lower suspension arm replaced a year ago due to sliding it into a kerb but it was sensitive before that. Rear shock absorbers recently replaced and the front lower arm bushes replaced and full suspension geometry undertaken with no major change.
I have been told the rear trailing arm rubber mounts are still acceptable but it would be worth replacing them.
Any similiar experience, ideas of the problem and if changing rear rubber mounts is the best next step ?
The car has always been quite sensitive on the road to white lines, cambers and to any steering movements on motorways and A class roads when driving at around the speed limit. But recently the car won't stay in a straight line, it wanders on the road and you spend the whole time on motorways concentrating and making steering corrections to stay in a straight line then over compensating. On b class roads it is a struggle to keep it on the correct side of the road. Even more noticeable recently since I bought a lotus Elise and when you jump back into the BMW you realise it just won't drive in a straight line.
Car did get near side rear lower suspension arm replaced a year ago due to sliding it into a kerb but it was sensitive before that. Rear shock absorbers recently replaced and the front lower arm bushes replaced and full suspension geometry undertaken with no major change.
I have been told the rear trailing arm rubber mounts are still acceptable but it would be worth replacing them.
Any similiar experience, ideas of the problem and if changing rear rubber mounts is the best next step ?
A mate of mine who's on here occasionally (rm163603) had major issues with his E46 330i touring when he changed from OEM Michelin to some other (still premium brand) tyres, sounds very similar to your issues and was bordering on dangerous to the extent that the stability control light sometimes kicked in when changing lanes on the motorway.
ghibbett said:
Not to the same extent, but my 330i Sport tramlines/wanders on certain roads. However I've just swapped all 4 wheels & tyres for my winter set, and the tramlining has 100% disappeared.
Narrower tyres I take it? 225's and upwards on the front always seem to tramline, any of the smaller wheeled models I've driven have been fine.ghibbett said:
soda said:
Narrower tyres I take it? 225's and upwards on the front always seem to tramline, any of the smaller wheeled models I've driven have been fine.
Only on the back. Running 225/45 R17 all round rather than the 225/40 R18 Fr and 245/35 R18 Rr of my summer wheels.
Jobbo said:
ghibbett said:
soda said:
Narrower tyres I take it? 225's and upwards on the front always seem to tramline, any of the smaller wheeled models I've driven have been fine.
Only on the back. Running 225/45 R17 all round rather than the 225/40 R18 Fr and 245/35 R18 Rr of my summer wheels.Jobbo said:
ghibbett said:
soda said:
Narrower tyres I take it? 225's and upwards on the front always seem to tramline, any of the smaller wheeled models I've driven have been fine.
Only on the back. Running 225/45 R17 all round rather than the 225/40 R18 Fr and 245/35 R18 Rr of my summer wheels.
Joking aside, as others have already said, the E46 (and the previous E36) are notorious for being sensitive to which tyres are fitted, the size of the tyres (@ 225's and above on the front seem to suffer more than most), the condition of the suspension components (especially bushes, ball joints etc.), and how precise the wheel alignments are set.
The first golden rule that I use is to ensure that I have the same make and model on all four corners. Mixing brands or just model of tyres on these cars seems to be a definite no-no as it can lead to the car feeling positively dangerous!.
The second rule I use is to avoid the bargain basement budget tyres such as Wanli.
When I bought My car, it came with these fitted all round and in the wet it was like driving on ice!, I kid you not!. Whilst trying to negotiate a roundabout at a crawling pace I had understeer, oversteer, back to understeer, it just would not grip!. I thought the suspension must have been shot (even though it felt okay in the dry), so took it to BMW to check the suspension over. They reported that the suspension was fine and said it might be the tyres, (a brand that they'd never heard of BTW!).
I changed to Goodyear F1's all round and the difference was night and day!.
You need to do your homework when it comes to tyres on these cars, one drivers: "great tyres", is another drivers: "They're crap!". I get on great Goodyears but some others don't like them.
Michelin Pilots get rated highly by a lot of drivers, but make sure you get the same series of pilots fitted all round, a different series fitted on the front compared to the back can lead you to suspecting that the chassis is twisted, it can be that bad!.
For less money, Falken tyres are rated highly, especially the 452 series.
It can be a bit trial and error when it comes to tyres on the E36 and E46 (and unfortunately it's not cheap to chop and change until you find the tyre that suits you), but when you find the right tyre, it will transform the car.
The style 68's you've shown should have 225/45/17's on the front and 245/40/17's on the rear (the size as on My E36), and can be very prone to tramlinig.
To summarize:
1) Never mix tyre brands on these cars.
2) Never mix tyre models on these cars (even though they are from the same manufacturer).
3) Avoid the bargain basement brands.
4) Ensure your tyre pressures are set correctly.
5) Ensure that your suspension components are in good condition.
6) Ensure your wheel alignments are correct.
7) When you've done all the above, don't be totally surprised if the car still tramlines at times as they are buggers for doing it, even when everything is perfect!.
Hope this helps
(I'll now sit back and wait for the replies saying I'm talking nonsense and that you can use budget tyres, mix make and models front to rear,side to side etc., etc., with no adverse effects whatsoever!)
I don't think you're talking nonsense at all. It would be good to get a picture of which sizes and specific tyres tramline; my Alpina (18", staggered, thought they were 255s on the back but it's not here to check) tramlines a bit on a brand new set of Bridgestone RE040s. I wouldn't have chosen them myself; I have liked them in the past on my old Civic Type R and Elise S2, but since they were fitted by the dealer before I viewed it I couldn't justifiably ask them to change to a set of Michelins.
I've driven about half a dozen E46s extensively; a brand new 2002 318i SE on 17"s tramlined more than a second hand 2002 330i Sport Touring on 18"s which I drove this year, but sadly I can't remember what tyres were on each!
I've driven about half a dozen E46s extensively; a brand new 2002 318i SE on 17"s tramlined more than a second hand 2002 330i Sport Touring on 18"s which I drove this year, but sadly I can't remember what tyres were on each!
Jobbo said:
I don't think you're talking nonsense at all. It would be good to get a picture of which sizes and specific tyres tramline; my Alpina (18", staggered, thought they were 255s on the back but it's not here to check) tramlines a bit on a brand new set of Bridgestone RE040s. I wouldn't have chosen them myself; I have liked them in the past on my old Civic Type R and Elise S2, but since they were fitted by the dealer before I viewed it I couldn't justifiably ask them to change to a set of Michelins.
I've driven about half a dozen E46s extensively; a brand new 2002 318i SE on 17"s tramlined more than a second hand 2002 330i Sport Touring on 18"s which I drove this year, but sadly I can't remember what tyres were on each!
Thank You!. I've driven about half a dozen E46s extensively; a brand new 2002 318i SE on 17"s tramlined more than a second hand 2002 330i Sport Touring on 18"s which I drove this year, but sadly I can't remember what tyres were on each!
The majority of owners I think would agree with what I've written but you'll always get a few owners saying how they've always fitted odd tyres, budget brands etc., and never had any problems.
It has to be said that the E36 and the E46 models seem to be a couple of the most sensitive cars ever made when it comes to tyres and suspension.
It doesn't seem to take much for the car throw a major hissy fit (Sometimes when driving My car it's like having a relationship with a stroppy Girlfriend, out the blue, and for no apparent reason, she starts arguing about which direction we should be going in!), and you can waste a lot of money if your not careful trying to fix it!. The trouble is, there are so many variables that can affect the cars handling.
From My own experience, the 225/45/17's can be especially prone to tramlining.
They can be a bit over sensitive to tyres & rd conditions but i have also seen problems caused by the front wishbone bushes (can go south in very few miles) & also the balljoints but also the rear arm bushes can cause some very odd problems, Had an m3 that was all over the rd to the point of being dangerous at speeds as low as 30mph, the stability was kicking in to help keep it on the rd that was caused by these bushes.
4rephill said:
Jobbo said:
I don't think you're talking nonsense at all. It would be good to get a picture of which sizes and specific tyres tramline; my Alpina (18", staggered, thought they were 255s on the back but it's not here to check) tramlines a bit on a brand new set of Bridgestone RE040s. I wouldn't have chosen them myself; I have liked them in the past on my old Civic Type R and Elise S2, but since they were fitted by the dealer before I viewed it I couldn't justifiably ask them to change to a set of Michelins.
I've driven about half a dozen E46s extensively; a brand new 2002 318i SE on 17"s tramlined more than a second hand 2002 330i Sport Touring on 18"s which I drove this year, but sadly I can't remember what tyres were on each!
Thank You!. I've driven about half a dozen E46s extensively; a brand new 2002 318i SE on 17"s tramlined more than a second hand 2002 330i Sport Touring on 18"s which I drove this year, but sadly I can't remember what tyres were on each!
The majority of owners I think would agree with what I've written but you'll always get a few owners saying how they've always fitted odd tyres, budget brands etc., and never had any problems.
It has to be said that the E36 and the E46 models seem to be a couple of the most sensitive cars ever made when it comes to tyres and suspension.
It doesn't seem to take much for the car throw a major hissy fit (Sometimes when driving My car it's like having a relationship with a stroppy Girlfriend, out the blue, and for no apparent reason, she starts arguing about which direction we should be going in!), and you can waste a lot of money if your not careful trying to fix it!. The trouble is, there are so many variables that can affect the cars handling.
From My own experience, the 225/45/17's can be especially prone to tramlining.
2 of them had 17" , one SE with 225/45 all round and tramlined quite badly, one sport with staggered 17" which didn't seem so bad.
My own when I bought it came with 225/45 all round with 2 Firehawk on the front, 1 Bridgestone and 1 Firestone on the rear with about 4mm in tread difference between them. Handling was 'interesting' and tramlining was the least of my worries. Changed to Continental all round and much better but still tramlined a bit. Picked up a pair of MV2's and put Goodyear eagle F1 assy on, fantastic difference in feel but still tramlines at times.
I've now resigned myself to the fact that tramlining is a characteristic of these cars that cannot be avoided on larger wheels.
My 330 is on standard mv2 alloys for a sport touring which is 225/40/18 fronts and 255/35/18 rears so I would expect some tramlining but not to this degree.
I believe the rear bushes on the front control arm are the wishbone bushes mentioned in the posts to be replaced but this didn't improve things. I have always used mid-range tyres eg pirelli zero rosso, Dunlop sp 9000 or uniroyal but hadn't considered mixing brands front to back may change behaviour so this is worth sorting at next tyre change and I will have a play about with tyre pressures now to see if it improves anything. I might also just get the rear axle rubber mounts changed since although i was told they were acceptable they arent perfect especially if this car is known to be so sensitive to suspension components.
Other thing I will do is one of my mates has a 2004 e46 320d touring with same size tyres and will do a swap for a drive to see if our cars are very different in behaviour.
Thanks for replies.
I believe the rear bushes on the front control arm are the wishbone bushes mentioned in the posts to be replaced but this didn't improve things. I have always used mid-range tyres eg pirelli zero rosso, Dunlop sp 9000 or uniroyal but hadn't considered mixing brands front to back may change behaviour so this is worth sorting at next tyre change and I will have a play about with tyre pressures now to see if it improves anything. I might also just get the rear axle rubber mounts changed since although i was told they were acceptable they arent perfect especially if this car is known to be so sensitive to suspension components.
Other thing I will do is one of my mates has a 2004 e46 320d touring with same size tyres and will do a swap for a drive to see if our cars are very different in behaviour.
Thanks for replies.
The tramlining is eccentuated by low profile tyres because the stiffer sidewalls try to centralise themselve in the rut. It is not the size of the wheels but the fact the larger diameter wheels have lower profile tyres.
The E46 suffers from the front lower arm rear bushes wearing and the optimum replacement is the urethane bush replacements from Powerflex. These operate like nylon bearings rather than by twisting rubber bushes. Tramlining can also be reduced by increasing front caster, either by using replacement top front strut bearings that are camber/caster adjustable, or by using camber adjusting offset front bushes like these.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
Tracking should also be checked as although it does not affect tramlining, it will make the steering more sensitive.
Hope that helps.
8Tech.
The E46 suffers from the front lower arm rear bushes wearing and the optimum replacement is the urethane bush replacements from Powerflex. These operate like nylon bearings rather than by twisting rubber bushes. Tramlining can also be reduced by increasing front caster, either by using replacement top front strut bearings that are camber/caster adjustable, or by using camber adjusting offset front bushes like these.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
Tracking should also be checked as although it does not affect tramlining, it will make the steering more sensitive.
Hope that helps.
8Tech.
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff