Jaguar 3L V6 in a 2.8 Wedge?
Discussion
I'm thinking that if I'm going to start working on TVRs as an extension to my current kit car business, I need to think about getting a TVR for myself. Now it happens that I have a Jaguar V6 and manual 5 speed from a 99 S type in my workshop, and that if I was to get myself a Wedge then I could swap the elderly Ford V6 for a much newer 'Ford' V6. The Jauar engine produces 240bhp in the orignal car, and will need a different induction set up and exhaust, so I'm thinking that I should see 260 or so in the new installation.
One of the reasons for considering a Wedge is the fact that the Getrag jaguar gearbox is direct top, so I need a car with a tall diff ratio, or at least one for which a suitable raio can be got (the diff in the Jaguar is 3.07). Cars with Sierra diffs would be a problem, I'd probably end up having to modify the chassis to take the Jaguar diff as anything longer-legged than 3.58 in Sierra diffs is getting very hard to come by (they've all beeen snapped up for bike engined kits).
Anyone have any comments, know anyone who had done this, does it seem like a good idea?
One of the reasons for considering a Wedge is the fact that the Getrag jaguar gearbox is direct top, so I need a car with a tall diff ratio, or at least one for which a suitable raio can be got (the diff in the Jaguar is 3.07). Cars with Sierra diffs would be a problem, I'd probably end up having to modify the chassis to take the Jaguar diff as anything longer-legged than 3.58 in Sierra diffs is getting very hard to come by (they've all beeen snapped up for bike engined kits).
Anyone have any comments, know anyone who had done this, does it seem like a good idea?
Hi mate..When i was considering changing my engine in the 280i i was advised to use a 2.9 cosworth with 24valve conversion..Race cam..big valves..hollies and induction..But if the jag fits..go for it..The original v6 colonge had cortina 2.3 exhaust manifolds as the capri ones wouldnt fit..zig
This sort of thing appeals to me too (transplants). 
Best measure the engine first...overall length width and height, just to see if it will drop between the chassis rails, and we can get you some feedback on the Wedge chassis dimensions. V8 Wedges have slightly more width in the engine bay than 280 V6s.
'Standard' diff ratio on both V6 and V8 Wedges is 3.54:1 on 14 or 15" rims.
Oh, and early 280s had direct top too (4 speed) with the 3.54 diff and 14" wheels, 205 x 60 profile tyres. Mine would do 70 in second.
Best measure the engine first...overall length width and height, just to see if it will drop between the chassis rails, and we can get you some feedback on the Wedge chassis dimensions. V8 Wedges have slightly more width in the engine bay than 280 V6s.
'Standard' diff ratio on both V6 and V8 Wedges is 3.54:1 on 14 or 15" rims.
Oh, and early 280s had direct top too (4 speed) with the 3.54 diff and 14" wheels, 205 x 60 profile tyres. Mine would do 70 in second.
Edited by grahamw48 on Friday 12th November 22:42
I think the toughest thing with your project would be the wiring issues of a sophisticated obd2 system in the wedge. I didn't even think of the 3 when I bought my Ford 302 for the 280i. My plan is to go with a mild set up of about 250hp or so. The 3.0 might be a better concept though as I'd suspect it could be lighter. Wonder what it soulds like opened up. The 2.5l in my X-type is quite refined, maybe too much for a wedge.
grahamw48 said:
Belgian ones might.
I bought all my Wedges in England 
According to the specification all 280i have 3.07:1 diff ratio and 350i have 3.54:1.
I'll check the 280i this weekend. I would be happy to find a 3.54:1 under it as I want to swap the engine as well with a more modern engine with overdrive gearbox.
I will post the outcome
Willy Lambrechts said:
280i models have a 3.07:1 diff ratio.
This was my understanding too. A 3.07 or similar would be needed in a car with a direct top gearbox. In 5 speed gearboxes the 5th gear is normally around .88 so a 3.5 ish ratio is OK.Personally I think with a decent sized engine that a large number of gears is a bit pointless, because the top one or 2 gears are usually below 1.0 and the manufacturer just fits a lower (numerically higher) diff ratio instead, so you end up chopping up the power band into smaller pieces, and requiring more gear changes as a result. Important on engines with a narrow power band, but not bigger, 'lazier' engines.
The Jaguar manuals used, unusually, a direct top as a petrol economy measure, they realised that it's pointless fitting an overdrive 5th gear if they are just going to fit something like a 3.3 or higher diff, because all they are then doing is speeding up the propshaft to above engine speed, only to drop it down again wuth a numerically higher diff, it wastes petrol. The automatic S types use a 3.3 ish diff, but that's because the bought-in 5 speed gearbox has an overdrive top.
On carfolio.com (specs site) it does give 3.07:1 for the 4 speed 280, which I agree would make sense, given the direct top on the 4 speed.
The TVR owners manual indicates 3.54:1 for both 280 and 350, all models though.
The 2.8i Capri (and the 3 litre Essex before it) ran a 3.09 diff with both 4 and 5 speed boxes, but with 13" road wheels.
The TVR owners manual indicates 3.54:1 for both 280 and 350, all models though.
The 2.8i Capri (and the 3 litre Essex before it) ran a 3.09 diff with both 4 and 5 speed boxes, but with 13" road wheels.
mrzigazaga said:
Jesus singlecoil..Just had a peek at your site and with prices like that your gonna be overwhelmed with work..Might have to take a drive out at some point and pay a visit..Good stuff mate..we need decently priced good mechanics and engineers..Zig
You would be very welcome. Having a decent workshop, but on a farm, having no employees, trading below the VAT threshold all helps to keep my prices down, plus my needs are simple too . Working on kit cars I have to keep my prices down or I would find it a lot harder to get the work, and as I don't have an esptablished reputation with TVRs yet, the same thing applies there, for the time being at least.If I find I do get a lot of work then I will have to see about applying the laws of supply and demand, and raising my prices, but for the time being I'm happy to keep things as they are. I know from experience that the kit car thing will pick up quite a bit in the early part of next year, but I'm getting tired of kits and the requirements of the IVA test are tedious and can be expensive to comply with. I've always like older cars, and I'm drawn to TVRs because, as they have GRP bodies, the rust problem is restricted to chassis and suspension parts where it is much easier to deal with than with a steel bodyshell.
grahamw48 said:
but with 13" road wheels.
Not that it makes any difference to your point, but the tyres fitted to earlier Capris with 13" wheels would have had taller profiles, so say a Capri with 165/80R13 would be only 1.25% less rolling radius than a car with 205/60R14 wheels.
grahamw48 said:
cos I'm old.
Me too . The first Capri ( a facelift Mk1 3000 GXL) I took to pieces donated its engine, gearbox, axle and loom to a Dutton Phaeton 2 which I built while the Dutton was the current model. I don't remember the axle ratio though, although it ceetainly wouldn't have been 3.5 ish.Anyway I take your point about the 2.8, I never had one of those, I was going by the '78 3000 S pack, shown in this list here
http://www.tiretips.net/tire-guides/ford-capri-tir...
I still think the 4 speeds 280s would be on the 3.07 diff, though. Even if they turn out not to be, I understand that ratio is available, but I know I need to look into this some more.
benebob said:
I think the toughest thing with your project would be the wiring issues of a sophisticated obd2 system in the wedge. I didn't even think of the 3 when I bought my Ford 302 for the 280i. My plan is to go with a mild set up of about 250hp or so. The 3.0 might be a better concept though as I'd suspect it could be lighter. Wonder what it soulds like opened up. The 2.5l in my X-type is quite refined, maybe too much for a wedge.
Sorry, I missed this earlier. I'm not planning to use the original ECU for this, I will be going with the Emerald, so just a matter of wiring it to the original engine loom, all the sensors I will need are already there. For the induction system I shall either use individual throttle bodies, or possibly a custom made plenum with a single throttle body. Almost certainly the ITBs though. Fortunately the Jaguar inlet manifold is in 2 sections, the enormous top variable runner length part (scrap), and the lower part (which I will retain) in which is mounted the injectors.So there is definitely some scope for a power increase there, not an awful lot maybe, as the Jaguar engine is already on 80 bhp per litre, but a bit.
singlecoil said:
grahamw48 said:
cos I'm old.
Me too . The first Capri ( a facelift Mk1 3000 GXL) I took to pieces donated its engine, gearbox, axle and loom to a Dutton Phaeton 2 which I built while the Dutton was the current model. I don't remember the axle ratio though, although it ceetainly wouldn't have been 3.5 ish.Anyway I take your point about the 2.8, I never had one of those, I was going by the '78 3000 S pack, shown in this list here
http://www.tiretips.net/tire-guides/ford-capri-tir...
I still think the 4 speeds 280s would be on the 3.07 diff, though. Even if they turn out not to be, I understand that ratio is available, but I know I need to look into this some more.
Here's me messing with my 1600GT crossflow Dutton 'B-Plus', back in the swinging 70s.
.
Where are those Duratec engine measurements ?
Edited by grahamw48 on Saturday 13th November 15:46
grahamw48 said:
singlecoil said:
grahamw48 said:
cos I'm old.
Me too . The first Capri ( a facelift Mk1 3000 GXL) I took to pieces donated its engine, gearbox, axle and loom to a Dutton Phaeton 2 which I built while the Dutton was the current model. I don't remember the axle ratio though, although it ceetainly wouldn't have been 3.5 ish.Anyway I take your point about the 2.8, I never had one of those, I was going by the '78 3000 S pack, shown in this list here
http://www.tiretips.net/tire-guides/ford-capri-tir...
I still think the 4 speeds 280s would be on the 3.07 diff, though. Even if they turn out not to be, I understand that ratio is available, but I know I need to look into this some more.
Here's me messing with my 1600GT crossflow Dutton 'B-Plus', back in the swinging 70s.
.
Where are those Duratec engine measurements ?
Edited by grahamw48 on Saturday 13th November 15:46
I can't get to measure the engine til Monday, but even then the problem is the shape, quite narrow at the bottom, the standard sump projects forward of the engine itself, the height is an issue (about 650mm IIRC) but the width at the top isn't too bad, 600mm IIRC, and the package is about 600mm long too, again IIRC. The Ford version has been put in various kit cars including the Sylva range, so I should be OK, but if not I'm not averse to modifying the chassis a bit, I've got the kit to do it, and an adaptable chassis jig I can set it up on if I need to (to check it doesn't distort)
The pic was taken in August 1977, and you're right, that street is chock a block now, as vehicle numbers have more than doubled in the last 30 years...happy days. 
The pale blue car is actually an HB Viva belonging to next door.
I think the Wedge is a great choice of car to use because they are such fantastic value for money, are built to take 300bhp and more, and despite a lot of rubbish talked about their build quality, reliability etc, are ideal candidates for the home-mechanic.
Sadly I'm inbetween Wedges at the moment so I can't just nip out to the garage and give you some chassis dimensions, but I'm hoping that if you can take some from your engine/gearbox, some of my fellow Wedgers will be able to get their tape measures out.
I'm sure you'll find that the Wedging fraternity are a really friendly and helpful bunch, who are also into getting their hands oily.
The pale blue car is actually an HB Viva belonging to next door.
I think the Wedge is a great choice of car to use because they are such fantastic value for money, are built to take 300bhp and more, and despite a lot of rubbish talked about their build quality, reliability etc, are ideal candidates for the home-mechanic.
Sadly I'm inbetween Wedges at the moment so I can't just nip out to the garage and give you some chassis dimensions, but I'm hoping that if you can take some from your engine/gearbox, some of my fellow Wedgers will be able to get their tape measures out.
I'm sure you'll find that the Wedging fraternity are a really friendly and helpful bunch, who are also into getting their hands oily.
Gassing Station | Wedges | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff