Clarkson 599GTO video
Discussion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z7oQsyUsIg&fea...
perhaps someone should teach him how to drive?
perhaps someone should teach him how to drive?
Edited by traxx on Monday 15th November 20:19
Haliatus said:
Interesting, you've had (still got) both haven't you? Whats your feelings
So when you read all the reviews they make the point that the GTO is way faster with the TC on.So Clarkson drives the GTO with TC off against a 458 with TC on
What a surprise its slower - the guy is going round the circuit sideways
Where I might agree with him though is that if you had never driven either car before, I imagine for the first 20 minutes you're going to have faster lap times in the 458 because it is easier to drive.
Today I drove the GTO on frosty roads and then later in the rain - thought the car was fine.
Interesting review.
Perhaps I should wait until I drive the GTO, but IMO this is what happens when a cars dynamics are optimised around electronics instead of decent underlying balance. With the electrics switched on the car becomes synthetic and uninvolved. With them switched off it becomes a bad car.
Said it in another review of the car that Ferrari keep doing this and it's NOT the way forward.
Having said all that I bet this GTO is absolutely unmatched for sheer pace. If Clarkson wanted to overtake that 458,yes he should learn to drive, or better he should have just switched it to RACE because it would crush the 458 IMO.
Perhaps I should wait until I drive the GTO, but IMO this is what happens when a cars dynamics are optimised around electronics instead of decent underlying balance. With the electrics switched on the car becomes synthetic and uninvolved. With them switched off it becomes a bad car.
Said it in another review of the car that Ferrari keep doing this and it's NOT the way forward.
Having said all that I bet this GTO is absolutely unmatched for sheer pace. If Clarkson wanted to overtake that 458,yes he should learn to drive, or better he should have just switched it to RACE because it would crush the 458 IMO.
the problem with the 458 is exactly what he says at the end of the review here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOp9EIxRNJY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOp9EIxRNJY
What an absolute idiot Clarkson is.
'Sure the 599 GTO set a record this year... traction control was driving'
It seems he'd rather be controversial than correct. His little one liners used to be funny, now I think he is a fool. Ferrari shouldn't have wasted Fiorano track time + a GTO on him!!!
'Sure the 599 GTO set a record this year... traction control was driving'
It seems he'd rather be controversial than correct. His little one liners used to be funny, now I think he is a fool. Ferrari shouldn't have wasted Fiorano track time + a GTO on him!!!
15HN said:
the problem with the 458 is exactly what he says at the end of the review here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOp9EIxRNJY
That whole video, especially the first 30 seconds. Really. Cars Ferrari couldnt sell, Drivers pretending to know the staff @ Ristorante Cavallino. Real idiot Mr Clarkson...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOp9EIxRNJY
The instructor in part 1 of the Italian Job DVD said what we're all thinking.
"Will you STOP DRIFTIING. We are not drifting, we are circuit racing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GA0fagun1w
"Will you STOP DRIFTIING. We are not drifting, we are circuit racing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GA0fagun1w
I can’t see the videos as they have been pulled so I am guessing what Clarkson has been up too. But I just wanted to add a couple of comments based on recent experience having spent half a day thrashing around Silverstone in a 458. I came away both amazed and hugely disappointed at the same time. Let me explain.
I would class myself as a reasonable driver. I have attended various advanced driver training classes and have been tutored in the art of circuit racing on a number of occasions.
My first laps in the 458 with all the gubbins turned on were a real eye opener. The steering was mega acurate on the turn in, with a small amount of understeer to keep you honest. The rear end was planted and wonderfully balanced. The amount of speed you could take into the high speed corners was incredible. When I got out of the car I commented that the car was a game changer when it came to its dynamics even though I have no love for the way the car looks.
I then took the car out again, but this time started to remove the computer assistance one by one and this is where things started to fall apart. At the end of my session I could not get within 5 seconds of my original laps times. The car had turned into a complete animal. The car had developed a huge amount of understeer that would then transition into wild oversteer with nothing in-between.
The steering was so fast that it made the situation worse as it was very hard to judge your inputs at the wheel. It was hard to believe you were driving the same car.
I then went back to driving the car with the systems on it was then that you really realised how much the computers were helping you. It was almost like you would give an instruction and the computers would decide if they were valid or not in getting the car around a corner quickly.
I came away from that day totally confused. The car is massively rapid all systems on but its Jekyll and Hyde character with them off I found very disappointing.
Maybe I am just old school but I believe a truly great car should have a fundamental balance before you add the bells and whistles.
Ok I have never flown one but the 458 reminds me of a Euro fighter, totally un-flyable unless the computers are turned on.
Its still a great car and wonderful achievement for Ferrari, just not my kind of great car.
I would class myself as a reasonable driver. I have attended various advanced driver training classes and have been tutored in the art of circuit racing on a number of occasions.
My first laps in the 458 with all the gubbins turned on were a real eye opener. The steering was mega acurate on the turn in, with a small amount of understeer to keep you honest. The rear end was planted and wonderfully balanced. The amount of speed you could take into the high speed corners was incredible. When I got out of the car I commented that the car was a game changer when it came to its dynamics even though I have no love for the way the car looks.
I then took the car out again, but this time started to remove the computer assistance one by one and this is where things started to fall apart. At the end of my session I could not get within 5 seconds of my original laps times. The car had turned into a complete animal. The car had developed a huge amount of understeer that would then transition into wild oversteer with nothing in-between.
The steering was so fast that it made the situation worse as it was very hard to judge your inputs at the wheel. It was hard to believe you were driving the same car.
I then went back to driving the car with the systems on it was then that you really realised how much the computers were helping you. It was almost like you would give an instruction and the computers would decide if they were valid or not in getting the car around a corner quickly.
I came away from that day totally confused. The car is massively rapid all systems on but its Jekyll and Hyde character with them off I found very disappointing.
Maybe I am just old school but I believe a truly great car should have a fundamental balance before you add the bells and whistles.
Ok I have never flown one but the 458 reminds me of a Euro fighter, totally un-flyable unless the computers are turned on.
Its still a great car and wonderful achievement for Ferrari, just not my kind of great car.
Edited by Streetrod on Tuesday 16th November 12:34
Streetrod said:
I then took the car out again, but this time started to remove the computer assistance one by one and this is where things started to fall apart. At the end of my session I could not get within 5 seconds of my original laps times. The car had turned into a complete animal. The car had developed a huge amount of understeer that would then transition into wild oversteer with nothing in-between.
THAT is EXACTLY right 
Don't know if you've owned/driven the Scud or 16M but you'll find they do the same. The stages of electronic assistance on the mannetino are the same the as 458/599 GTO.
What's really weird is that "race mode" in my 430 Spider was more involving than "race mode" in the 16M. In the old car it would allow YOU to drive the car with "help" if you overdid it. In the new one it's a video game allowing you to floor it indiscriminately mid corner and stabilising you on the way in for maximum speed. It's fast but pretty detached.
Don't all have a go at Clarkson. I admit he talks a lot of crap but except that the GTO would be substantially faster than a 458 on track, he's actually NOT completely wrong in this instance.
Whether or not this makes for a great car is a matter of opinion.
It does beg the question of whether all these electronics are necessary. Of all the road car driving I've done, more enjoyment has come about when not driving the car to within an inch of either of our lives. If you have to have every electronic turned on to get you home in one piece it takes quite a bit of fun out of things I think. Slight exaggeration perhaps but you know what I mean.
I am not saying Ferrari are losing their way, but they do seem to be forgetting some important qualities that car owners enjoy and appreciate. Manual transmission being one of them. Maybe it's a case of trying to advance for the sake of it whether it benefits the end user or not?
I am not saying Ferrari are losing their way, but they do seem to be forgetting some important qualities that car owners enjoy and appreciate. Manual transmission being one of them. Maybe it's a case of trying to advance for the sake of it whether it benefits the end user or not?
It appears that one wealthy chap has gone through the Ferrari Atelier programme to create what we all want.
He's ordered a 599 to GTO spec, with a manual gearbox and the handling characteristics changed to suit driving with TC off.
Lord knows what it'll cost him, but God bless that man.
Those who know me, and know what i do and who I work for, will know how i know this info...
He's ordered a 599 to GTO spec, with a manual gearbox and the handling characteristics changed to suit driving with TC off.
Lord knows what it'll cost him, but God bless that man.
Those who know me, and know what i do and who I work for, will know how i know this info...
Beefmeister said:
It appears that one wealthy chap has gone through the Ferrari Atelier programme to create what we all want.
He's ordered a 599 to GTO spec, with a manual gearbox and the handling characteristics changed to suit driving with TC off.
Lord knows what it'll cost him, but God bless that man.
Those who know me, and know what i do and who I work for, will know how i know this info...
Wow!! Now that the sort of customer I like, good on him. As you say I hate to think how much that would cost.He's ordered a 599 to GTO spec, with a manual gearbox and the handling characteristics changed to suit driving with TC off.
Lord knows what it'll cost him, but God bless that man.
Those who know me, and know what i do and who I work for, will know how i know this info...
Beefmeister as you appear to be in the know, can you answer this question. Are Ferrari producing cars that the Ferrari enthusiast wants or cars that they want you to want if you know what I mean?
And do you think that the exclusion of manual gearboxes is a marketing or cost cutting lead?
Beefmeister said:
He's ordered a 599 to GTO spec, with a manual gearbox and the handling characteristics changed to suit driving with TC off.
Like 
ETA: it would be an epic vindication if, whenever he sold the car, he actually got the extra money back he spent on it
Edited by Mario149 on Tuesday 16th November 19:21
Streetrod said:
Beefmeister said:
It appears that one wealthy chap has gone through the Ferrari Atelier programme to create what we all want.
He's ordered a 599 to GTO spec, with a manual gearbox and the handling characteristics changed to suit driving with TC off.
Lord knows what it'll cost him, but God bless that man.
Those who know me, and know what i do and who I work for, will know how i know this info...
Wow!! Now that the sort of customer I like, good on him. As you say I hate to think how much that would cost.He's ordered a 599 to GTO spec, with a manual gearbox and the handling characteristics changed to suit driving with TC off.
Lord knows what it'll cost him, but God bless that man.
Those who know me, and know what i do and who I work for, will know how i know this info...
Beefmeister as you appear to be in the know, can you answer this question. Are Ferrari producing cars that the Ferrari enthusiast wants or cars that they want you to want if you know what I mean?
And do you think that the exclusion of manual gearboxes is a marketing or cost cutting lead?
Personally i feel that they have lost their way, and are pursuing this at the expense of driver involvement. Removing the manual 'box is a marketing thing (F1 etc), hand in hand with the fact that it saves money only developing one gearbox variant.
Plus with the 458 they couldn't tailor a manual box to change it's characteristics with the other electronic gubbins, so it was never even considered.
However if you've got the money, they'll do pretty much whatever you like...
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