WFT is with the EU foot-in-mouth stuff?

[Digga]

First, over the weekend, we have Merkel and Sarkozy talking about bailing out Ireland, causing another run on the markets, then we've got the (unelected, lunatic) EU President, Van Rompuy on the news, now saying the Eurozone is facing a "survivial crisis".

Van Rumpypumpy said:

if the euro failed, so too would the EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11762500

Reminds me of the idiot who narrowly avoids stepping in a pile of st on his way to the pub and enters the bar, with a handful of steaming turd saying "look what I nearly trod in!".

Are they incapable of restraint? They have enough bad press without making their own: It is the European Central Bank that should be printing money

[AshVX220]

Van Rumpypumpy said:

if the euro failed, so too would the EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11762500

I wish.

[JensenA]

It's not bad press to them is it. Merkel also said that the Eoru must not be allowed to fail, because if the Euro fails, then a United Europe fails.
A United Europe is a political dream for Germany and France, and that is their goal, hence their pleas to save the Euro.
The EEC is NOT a democratic institution, it's closest political model is a Communist state. The un-elected, appointed Eurocrats determine policy, all the Gravy train highly paid MEP's do is vote on what the Eurocrats decide. It should be allowed to fail, and fail quickly.

[Digga]

Whatever their aims, they seem unable to anticipate the consequences of their public statements. There was a lot of back tracking earlier this week from Merkel and Sarkozy and it really make you wonder what grasp they have of reality.

Now Van Rompuy wants to throw the EU baby out with the Eyore bathwater....

[RichardD]

JensenA said:

It's not bad press to them is it. Merkel also said that the Eoru must not be allowed to fail, because if the Euro fails, then a United Europe fails.
A United Europe is a political dream for Germany and France, and that is their goal, hence their pleas to save the Euro.
....

Do the German people really want their long term hard work/success being used to subsidise countries like Greece!?

[Corsair7]

I'm thinking about growing spuds in the back garden next year, so that I can send them over to Ireland in the post, and thus prevent people from starving.....


I'm all heart, me.

[JensenA]

RichardD said:

JensenA said:

It's not bad press to them is it. Merkel also said that the Eoru must not be allowed to fail, because if the Euro fails, then a United Europe fails.
A United Europe is a political dream for Germany and France, and that is their goal, hence their pleas to save the Euro.
....

Do the German people really want their long term hard work/success being used to subsidise countries like Greece!?

I doubt it - But their leaders want a United Europe.

[Zod]

Most Germans would vote for a return to the Deutsche Mark.

[JagLover]

and the Greek prime minister was calling for Europe wide carbon & financial taxes to pay for bailouts of countries like his.

I'm sure the rest of Europe will be quite happy to pay extra taxes to keep the Greeks in the style to which they have become accustomed.

[Digga]

Zod said:

Most Germans would vote for a return to the Deutsche Mark.

And lest we forget; the Irish, Dutch and French public all voted "no" but were ignored.

[Tsippy]

Zod said:

Most Germans would vote for a return to the Deutsche Mark.

And the French would prefer a return to the Franc, in fact I have not met anyone who wants this European superstate apart from politicians. So I think most would welcome the failure of the euro.

With regards to Germany, the West were (and still are) annoyed about having to pay for East Germany when the wall came down, so I doubt they're impressed with having to pay for the likes of Greece!

[Spiritual_Beggar]

Van Rumple (or whatever) came out the other day saying that the EU was the only hope for Europe, and that the time of 'nation states' was over.

He claimed individual nations would not be able to survive.


If this wasn't an admission of their true intents (i.e.: Europe as a single state), then I don't know what is.

Call me cynical, but I do not trust the EU and those who run it one single bit!

[Mikeyboy]

Spiritual_Beggar said:

Van Rumple (or whatever) came out the other day saying that the EU was the only hope for Europe, and that the time of 'nation states' was over.

He claimed individual nations would not be able to survive.


If this wasn't an admission of their true intents (i.e.: Europe as a single state), then I don't know what is.

Call me cynical, but I do not trust the EU and those who run it one single bit!

he is Belgian so I reckon he thinks that's true. After all Belgium is hardly a stable country politically.

[ZesPak]

Mikeyboy said:

he is Belgian so I reckon he thinks that's true. After all Belgium is hardly a stable country politically.

As a Belgian I find these statements actually quite narrow-minded and pretty offensive.
We are not americans, we know what's going on in the world beside our own very small non-country. To think somebody like Van Rompuy will apply Belgian way of thinking and politics into the EU is very shortsighted. I don't approve of Van Rompuy entirely, but I don't think he's so narrow-minded "because he's Belgian and he doesn't know better".

Sorry, we are not Brits, French or Germans, who can't look any further than their noses are long.

[Digga]

ZesPak said:

Mikeyboy said:

he is Belgian so I reckon he thinks that's true. After all Belgium is hardly a stable country politically.

As a Belgian I find these statements actually quite narrow-minded and pretty offensive.
We are not americans, we know what's going on in the world beside our own very small non-country. To think somebody like Van Rompuy will apply Belgian way of thinking and politics into the EU is very shortsighted. I don't approve of Van Rompuy entirely, but I don't think he's so narrow-minded "because he's Belgian and he doesn't know better".

Sorry, we are not Brits, French or Germans, who can't look any further than their noses are long.

You forgot to add our noses are only long because air is free.

[ZesPak]

Digga said:

ZesPak said:

Mikeyboy said:

he is Belgian so I reckon he thinks that's true. After all Belgium is hardly a stable country politically.

As a Belgian I find these statements actually quite narrow-minded and pretty offensive.
We are not americans, we know what's going on in the world beside our own very small non-country. To think somebody like Van Rompuy will apply Belgian way of thinking and politics into the EU is very shortsighted. I don't approve of Van Rompuy entirely, but I don't think he's so narrow-minded "because he's Belgian and he doesn't know better".

Sorry, we are not Brits, French or Germans, who can't look any further than their noses are long.

You forgot to add our noses are only long because air is free.

that.

All said and done, there are things I like about the EU and things I don't like. The allowing of "bailing out" of countries that are that weak is actually a bad thing imho.

I do like not having to calculate currencies everywhere I go.

So to me it seems like you guys get the worst of both worlds

[Digga]

ZesPak said:

Digga said:

ZesPak said:

Mikeyboy said:

he is Belgian so I reckon he thinks that's true. After all Belgium is hardly a stable country politically.

As a Belgian I find these statements actually quite narrow-minded and pretty offensive.
We are not americans, we know what's going on in the world beside our own very small non-country. To think somebody like Van Rompuy will apply Belgian way of thinking and politics into the EU is very shortsighted. I don't approve of Van Rompuy entirely, but I don't think he's so narrow-minded "because he's Belgian and he doesn't know better".

Sorry, we are not Brits, French or Germans, who can't look any further than their noses are long.

You forgot to add our noses are only long because air is free.

that.

All said and done, there are things I like about the EU and things I don't like. The allowing of "bailing out" of countries that are that weak is actually a bad thing imho.

I do like not having to calculate currencies everywhere I go.

The single currency does make stuff easy, but there are more ways than the present one of retaining it. Having differeing econmies share the same ECb set base rate was only ever going to be a recipe for an enormous fk up.

But as to the stability comment, I don't think it unfair to suggest there is a certain degree of conflict within Belgium, in relation to the French and Flemish speaking factions?

[Mikeyboy]

ZesPak said:

Mikeyboy said:

he is Belgian so I reckon he thinks that's true. After all Belgium is hardly a stable country politically.

As a Belgian I find these statements actually quite narrow-minded and pretty offensive.
We are not americans, we know what's going on in the world beside our own very small non-country. To think somebody like Van Rompuy will apply Belgian way of thinking and politics into the EU is very shortsighted. I don't approve of Van Rompuy entirely, but I don't think he's so narrow-minded "because he's Belgian and he doesn't know better".

Sorry, we are not Brits, French or Germans, who can't look any further than their noses are long.

I'm sorry you took offence to that but wasn't there a period when you couldn't form a government because the Flemish parties and the Francophone parties couldn't agree on how to form one? And I don't mean for just a few days, we are talking weeks and months here.
That is the basis of what I am talking about and that is a fact. Nothing at all to do with whether as a Belgian he would have a narrow world view, just that his world view will be coloured by a country in which the Nation State is failing due to ethnic differences.

Edited by Mikeyboy on Tuesday 16th November 15:01

[ZesPak]

Digga said:

The single currency does make stuff easy, but there are more ways than the present one of retaining it. Having differeing econmies share the same ECb set base rate was only ever going to be a recipe for an enormous fk up.

But as to the stability comment, I don't think it unfair to suggest there is a certain degree of conflict within Belgium, in relation to the French and Flemish speaking factions?

Of course there I is. I think it's fair to say your statement is an understatement . I just said that a politician on the level of Van Rompuy doesn't let a Belgian conflict like that influence his European vision/politics.

Edited by ZesPak on Tuesday 16th November 15:02

[IainT]

I have no issues with the concept of the EU as a vehcle for simplified trade and movement of workforce but I see no benefit of a singlular political entity.