Factory fitted sat nav?
Poll: Factory fitted sat nav?
Total Members Polled: 253
Discussion
I have had two cars in the past with factory fitted satnav systems and both of them have been a bit s
t.
Issues such a bizarre route suggestions, inability to enter full postcodes/house numbers etc. and dodgy reception have conspired to irritate me, and it's only by virtue of the fact that they have been built in to the car that they haven't been hurled out of the window in a fit of pique.
Not to mention the daft four-figure prices charged by the manufacturers to fit the daft things in the first place.
Conversely my hundred-odd quid Tom Tom One bought five years ago (with new European map SD card bought last year) has never let me down.
What do you think fellow PHers?
t.Issues such a bizarre route suggestions, inability to enter full postcodes/house numbers etc. and dodgy reception have conspired to irritate me, and it's only by virtue of the fact that they have been built in to the car that they haven't been hurled out of the window in a fit of pique.
Not to mention the daft four-figure prices charged by the manufacturers to fit the daft things in the first place.
Conversely my hundred-odd quid Tom Tom One bought five years ago (with new European map SD card bought last year) has never let me down.
What do you think fellow PHers?
Wouldn't buy an M3, M5, Porsche, etc without it. Yes, the factory systems are often inferior to a TomTom, but the car is more difficult to sell if it hasn't got it IMHO. I know a number of people who have had real difficulty selling pristine examples of the cars mentioned above, mainly down to lack of factory nav. Additionally, try p/x'ing an e46 M3 or 335d/335i without nav at a dealer and see how much less it's worth to them. Frightening.
MattOz said:
Wouldn't buy an M3, M5, Porsche, etc without it. I know a number of people who have had real difficulty selling pristine examples of the cars mentioned above, mainly down to lack of factory nav.
I suppose the flip side of this is that, as a buyer, you can get a car without nav that little bit cheaper.I've never had a car with built in Sat-nav and never will, we have a little garmin unit that we've used at home and abroad, in both our cars and rentals and its been excellent. You can't do that with something thats built into the dash of one car. I really don't understand the obsession with it but accept that its there - would be a nice way to pick up a bargain version of one of the cars listed above.
MattOz said:
Wouldn't buy an M3, M5, Porsche, etc without it. Yes, the factory systems are often inferior to a TomTom, but the car is more difficult to sell if it hasn't got it IMHO. I know a number of people who have had real difficulty selling pristine examples of the cars mentioned above, mainly down to lack of factory nav. Additionally, try p/x'ing an e46 M3 or 335d/335i without nav at a dealer and see how much less it's worth to them. Frightening.
Why is that? Surely any buyers of said motors would realise that if a car hasn't got sat nav they can buy one for £100 or so. I'd rather take a better or similar condition car for less/same money.The factory fitted navigation on my Laguna is the most illogical, back to front piece of mapping software I've ever seen - someone must have been on another world if they spec'd that new.
It's a 2007 1.9 DCi Navigation edition...
big marks for my commuter box... ahem, anyway, the routing logic is a little odd, and the controls feel very backward. The voice is polite enough (although I swtich that off) and the overhead map is fine for my quick side road dashes if there's a monster queue... Never managed to figure out the traffic warning updates it gives, although they mostly appear to be out of date.
As to future value - I wasn't worried about that, else I'd have walked past the Renault section; if it still works when there's 200K miles on it (assuming it'll get there of course) then it may help shift it, but I doubt it.
The TomTom I use in the Saab is infinitely better.
It's a 2007 1.9 DCi Navigation edition...
big marks for my commuter box... ahem, anyway, the routing logic is a little odd, and the controls feel very backward. The voice is polite enough (although I swtich that off) and the overhead map is fine for my quick side road dashes if there's a monster queue... Never managed to figure out the traffic warning updates it gives, although they mostly appear to be out of date.As to future value - I wasn't worried about that, else I'd have walked past the Renault section; if it still works when there's 200K miles on it (assuming it'll get there of course) then it may help shift it, but I doubt it.
The TomTom I use in the Saab is infinitely better.
adycav said:
MattOz said:
Wouldn't buy an M3, M5, Porsche, etc without it. I know a number of people who have had real difficulty selling pristine examples of the cars mentioned above, mainly down to lack of factory nav.
I suppose the flip side of this is that, as a buyer, you can get a car without nav that little bit cheaper.Some market sectors you can get away with it. I suspect that a Boxster with or without satnav will still sell, but a larger exec saloon or 4x4 will be pretty much expected.
I have the standard fit Lexus one which is excellent. It looks a bit long in the tooth these days, but its down to the use of it. Its fast, effective, very rarely gets it wrong and importantly its intuitive to use. Having struggled with a few different ones over the years, the Lexus one just works.
Mine does lack the traffic, fancy graphics and postcode search though - which is starting to get limiting these days.
Unfortunately, price is often not a good guide to performance though. Some of the expensive versions are rubbish and the cheaper versions are often quite good. Proof in the pudding I guess.
I have the standard fit Lexus one which is excellent. It looks a bit long in the tooth these days, but its down to the use of it. Its fast, effective, very rarely gets it wrong and importantly its intuitive to use. Having struggled with a few different ones over the years, the Lexus one just works.
Mine does lack the traffic, fancy graphics and postcode search though - which is starting to get limiting these days.
Unfortunately, price is often not a good guide to performance though. Some of the expensive versions are rubbish and the cheaper versions are often quite good. Proof in the pudding I guess.
MattOz said:
Wouldn't buy an M3, M5, Porsche, etc without it. Yes, the factory systems are often inferior to a TomTom, but the car is more difficult to sell if it hasn't got it IMHO. I know a number of people who have had real difficulty selling pristine examples of the cars mentioned above, mainly down to lack of factory nav. Additionally, try p/x'ing an e46 M3 or 335d/335i without nav at a dealer and see how much less it's worth to them. Frightening.
So if you price these vehicles below the rest of the market by the amount that sat nav adds to the new price (about 1000 quid usually?), they still wont sell? I guess that just goes to show how irrational many buyers are, especially considering how poor most integrated systems are. Even if I bought a car with integrated sat nav, I suspect I'd end up with a TomTom stuck to the windscreen, they're just better, usually.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 16th November 16:24
They are nothing but a pain in t'arse once they get to Bargain Barge status, 10 years down the line.
Satnav/analogue TVs in E38/9s. Satnav/audio in 166's that you cannot get an iPod solution or an updated nav disc for. Bloody stupid things. They will go wrong/out of date and they will be impossible to rip out as they also control the aircon etc.
I wish I could have had a Mk4 LS without it: just a double din audio like in the Mk3. But they all came with it. Except in the US
Carry on...
Satnav/analogue TVs in E38/9s. Satnav/audio in 166's that you cannot get an iPod solution or an updated nav disc for. Bloody stupid things. They will go wrong/out of date and they will be impossible to rip out as they also control the aircon etc.
I wish I could have had a Mk4 LS without it: just a double din audio like in the Mk3. But they all came with it. Except in the US
Carry on...
It is sod all about finding your way anywhere, its garnish and
without it your nice shiny car just doesnt cut it in the one-upmanship stakes, it can be a steaming turd to drive but as long as its got that lcd screen in the dash its ok.
People get worried that their image will be dented if they have the rubber sucker of shame stuck to the windscreen in their 3 series when Giles in accounts has the BMW Ulitimate Business Pro, Taste the difference, DAB, Widescreen alpha male sat nav, that finds eligle Virgins for you.
They seem to worry about not speccing it just in case it may not sell on but its funny that some of the heinous body/interior combos seem to make it through, the real resale worriers go for Black Leather with Silver paint of course.
without it your nice shiny car just doesnt cut it in the one-upmanship stakes, it can be a steaming turd to drive but as long as its got that lcd screen in the dash its ok.
People get worried that their image will be dented if they have the rubber sucker of shame stuck to the windscreen in their 3 series when Giles in accounts has the BMW Ulitimate Business Pro, Taste the difference, DAB, Widescreen alpha male sat nav, that finds eligle Virgins for you.
They seem to worry about not speccing it just in case it may not sell on but its funny that some of the heinous body/interior combos seem to make it through, the real resale worriers go for Black Leather with Silver paint of course.
Having been a sales rep for a long time, I rarely need to use the Navigation. However, I tend to use it because of the Traffic notifications (and it's an excuse to have the thing slide up out of the dashboard). Perhaps most tellingly is that I have the voice on mute.
However, even by the standards of 2003 it's a poor system - limited functionality, no 3D, gets it's knickers in a right twist if you miss your turning, doesn't zoom in enough for dense road networks like London or Brighton, and very slow to reroute. It also has a bizarre judgement of '50 Yards' which when coupled with the odd display often means missing turnings in complicated areas (where I need it most when looking for customer premises).
Despite this, without it (and the equally old-hat Car Phone) my car is worth around £1500 less.
QED
However, even by the standards of 2003 it's a poor system - limited functionality, no 3D, gets it's knickers in a right twist if you miss your turning, doesn't zoom in enough for dense road networks like London or Brighton, and very slow to reroute. It also has a bizarre judgement of '50 Yards' which when coupled with the odd display often means missing turnings in complicated areas (where I need it most when looking for customer premises).
Despite this, without it (and the equally old-hat Car Phone) my car is worth around £1500 less.
QED
Rationally I would buy a 2nd hand car without the system - in my Jaguar it controls the climate, audio and various other things so if it dies I'm screwed. In reality I only looked at cars with the sat nav system because the idea of a big touchscreen in the middle of my car appeals to the child in me. It can be very helpful for finding your way around to have a rolling map with street names and suchlike in the middle of the dash, even if you're not using it for guidance.
Dave
Dave
It depends.
I'd used a couple of different Tomtoms before and got the proper Brodit mounts (rather than faff with the suction cups) and power wired in, but it was still a faff getting it out of the glovebox or armrest and hooked up and even though the Brodit mounts are great, they rarely put it in an ideal position.
My current car (Honda Civic EX) has it because that trim level included it as standard. The cost premium over the ES was about £1200 but as well as the satnav included better alloys, HIDs, bluetooth, parking sensors, etc (but lost the glass roof). So probably no more than £400 assuming you wanted the other stuff. As it was standard fit, it made getting a secondhand Civic with nav pretty easy.
Have been using it for about 18 months and generally I prefer it over the standalone units. I don't have the voice kicking in, it's muted as it was on the tomtom. If was ordering new and could tick a box for nav at that price, I'd probably do it.
Advantages:
- nicely integrated into the dashboard, with a big screen just below windscreen level and nice big controls on the stereo and steering wheel ( like this but RHD)
- same big screen and nice controls are used for climate, stereo, etc.
- it knows where it is, whether I'm using the nav screen or not - so no sitting there for minutes doing the "acquiring satellites" thing
- switches from day to night mode with the lights, rather than digging into the settings
- zooming in and out of the map and scrolling around (say if you're stuck in traffic and looking at alternate routes) is much, much easier than on any standalone unit I've tried.
- generally speaking, is more reliable - but there was only one junction I used to use that would crash Tomtom most of the time when passing it so possibly a mapping issue.
Disadvantages:
- lose a chunk of glovebox space to the DVD drive
- can't load your own POIs (so changing cars and reloading the ones I set up would be a pain), so things like speed camera warnings are out
- updates cost a fortune - Honda want £200+ for new nav discs
- can't take it with you to use in hire cars, but phones do an OK job these days
- out-of-warranty failure could be costly
Overall, I'd have it again at a sane price - if you rely on navigation a lot and do plenty of miles it's probably worth having. Not sure I'd pay the £1500+ that some manufacturers want for it as an option though.
I'd used a couple of different Tomtoms before and got the proper Brodit mounts (rather than faff with the suction cups) and power wired in, but it was still a faff getting it out of the glovebox or armrest and hooked up and even though the Brodit mounts are great, they rarely put it in an ideal position.
My current car (Honda Civic EX) has it because that trim level included it as standard. The cost premium over the ES was about £1200 but as well as the satnav included better alloys, HIDs, bluetooth, parking sensors, etc (but lost the glass roof). So probably no more than £400 assuming you wanted the other stuff. As it was standard fit, it made getting a secondhand Civic with nav pretty easy.
Have been using it for about 18 months and generally I prefer it over the standalone units. I don't have the voice kicking in, it's muted as it was on the tomtom. If was ordering new and could tick a box for nav at that price, I'd probably do it.
Advantages:
- nicely integrated into the dashboard, with a big screen just below windscreen level and nice big controls on the stereo and steering wheel ( like this but RHD)
- same big screen and nice controls are used for climate, stereo, etc.
- it knows where it is, whether I'm using the nav screen or not - so no sitting there for minutes doing the "acquiring satellites" thing
- switches from day to night mode with the lights, rather than digging into the settings
- zooming in and out of the map and scrolling around (say if you're stuck in traffic and looking at alternate routes) is much, much easier than on any standalone unit I've tried.
- generally speaking, is more reliable - but there was only one junction I used to use that would crash Tomtom most of the time when passing it so possibly a mapping issue.
Disadvantages:
- lose a chunk of glovebox space to the DVD drive
- can't load your own POIs (so changing cars and reloading the ones I set up would be a pain), so things like speed camera warnings are out
- updates cost a fortune - Honda want £200+ for new nav discs
- can't take it with you to use in hire cars, but phones do an OK job these days
- out-of-warranty failure could be costly
Overall, I'd have it again at a sane price - if you rely on navigation a lot and do plenty of miles it's probably worth having. Not sure I'd pay the £1500+ that some manufacturers want for it as an option though.
Edited by sjg on Tuesday 16th November 17:40
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