Outrageous and fantastic Cold War engineering projects...
Discussion
Reading about the B36 fitted with a reactor in the “Ultimate Piston Bomber” thread, and remembering on first hearing of it being startled that anyone had ever actually built such a thing, I was reminded of some of the extraordinary engineering things that were done in the Cold War. Specifically, I remembered a terrific book I read whilst a very junior member of the Science Museum staff, a long time ago, which was – unpromisingly, I agree – a history of the development of rocket fuels in the US during the Cold War years. A bit of googling later, and...
They say everyone has one book in them, and John D Clark certainly did (helped by the fact that he could actually write...). It is called “Ignition: An Informal History of Liquid Rocket Propellants”, and there is a re-print on Amazon for $270... so I might wait until I’ve bought the family Christmas presents before buying a copy.... It is about 25 years since I read it, but some bits still stick in my mind, underlining the sheer unshackled enthusiasm, and often folly, that engineers exhibited then, and the vast budgets, with virtually no external control, that they had access to.
There are lots of fantastic tales in the book – amongst my favourite stories are that of the perfect self-igniting (“hypergolic”, if I recall) rocket fuel ... Energetic, reliably self igniting, easy to make... but, as they discovered, so unstable that shining a torch into a tank of the stuff set it off.... And, that of the rocket crews who were perturbed by the use of hydrogen cyanide as a major component of some fuel system or other; Clark comments dryly that “I didn’t like to tell them that the things we had been using previously were far more toxic than cyanide...”.
But, the best story was that of what must in some ways have been the ultimate liquid fuelled rocket motor. Rocket thrust is, of course, a product of the speed of exit of the exhaust stream, which is in itself a function of temperature, and the mass of that stream. So, when the maximum speed, and so temperature, permitted by the materials then available had been reached, the obvious thing was to increase the mass of the exhaust stream. I am not a rocket engineer, so this is a bit over-simplified, but basically right I think.
Liquid rocket... ok, what is the most massive substance that is liquid at normal temperatures... well, that is easy – mercury. So, instead of laughing and buying another round, they built one. In New Jersey. So, to avoid poisoning the whole state, they built an exhaust gas scrubber, too. Then they thought better of that, took the thing down to White Sands, and just fired it out into the desert....
I know it is mad, and irresponsible, and all the rest of it, but it must have been a lot of fun being an engineer back then. Anyone else have any Cold War “they did WHAT???” stories..?
They say everyone has one book in them, and John D Clark certainly did (helped by the fact that he could actually write...). It is called “Ignition: An Informal History of Liquid Rocket Propellants”, and there is a re-print on Amazon for $270... so I might wait until I’ve bought the family Christmas presents before buying a copy.... It is about 25 years since I read it, but some bits still stick in my mind, underlining the sheer unshackled enthusiasm, and often folly, that engineers exhibited then, and the vast budgets, with virtually no external control, that they had access to.
There are lots of fantastic tales in the book – amongst my favourite stories are that of the perfect self-igniting (“hypergolic”, if I recall) rocket fuel ... Energetic, reliably self igniting, easy to make... but, as they discovered, so unstable that shining a torch into a tank of the stuff set it off.... And, that of the rocket crews who were perturbed by the use of hydrogen cyanide as a major component of some fuel system or other; Clark comments dryly that “I didn’t like to tell them that the things we had been using previously were far more toxic than cyanide...”.
But, the best story was that of what must in some ways have been the ultimate liquid fuelled rocket motor. Rocket thrust is, of course, a product of the speed of exit of the exhaust stream, which is in itself a function of temperature, and the mass of that stream. So, when the maximum speed, and so temperature, permitted by the materials then available had been reached, the obvious thing was to increase the mass of the exhaust stream. I am not a rocket engineer, so this is a bit over-simplified, but basically right I think.
Liquid rocket... ok, what is the most massive substance that is liquid at normal temperatures... well, that is easy – mercury. So, instead of laughing and buying another round, they built one. In New Jersey. So, to avoid poisoning the whole state, they built an exhaust gas scrubber, too. Then they thought better of that, took the thing down to White Sands, and just fired it out into the desert....
I know it is mad, and irresponsible, and all the rest of it, but it must have been a lot of fun being an engineer back then. Anyone else have any Cold War “they did WHAT???” stories..?
Simpo Two said:
Just shows you what can be done when you've got full funding and no environmentalists choking on their tofu over carbons.
Or other emissions...Project Orion
I do have the book on that amazing scheme (very good read, for a lot less than $270).
The ship lift is fantastic, but the abandonded nuclear lighthouse is splendidly sinister - very Andrei Tarkovsky.
Edited by NLB on Friday 19th November 22:10
tank slapper said:
Similar to the "lock" at Ronquiereshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronqui%C3%A8res_incli...
kiteless said:
Not a lock, an inclined plane. Britain's canals had them too, and also the Anderton Lift - probably the biggest examples in their day.There is a little myth floating round the net that during the early underground US testing being done, the wells were capped by a heavy steel manhole cover. The more adventurous speculators take the view in certain quarters that it was captured on high speed camera blowing out at a speed large enough to propel it into orbit or beyond thus being the first man made object sent into space before Sputnik. It`s a nice tale of course which I`d take with a fairly large dose of salt...
Probably went pretty high though...
Probably went pretty high though...
Edited by FM on Saturday 20th November 09:56
FM said:
There is a little myth floating round the net that during the early underground US testing being done, the wells were capped by a heavy steel manhole cover. The more adventurous speculators take the view in certain quarters that it was captured on high speed camera blowing out at a speed large enough to propel it into orbit or beyond thus being the first man made object sent into space before Sputnik. It`s a nice tale of course which I`d take with a fairly large dose of salt...
Probably went pretty high though...
I would agree and say that was BS too. IIRC there was still above ground testing long after Sputnik. Also the shafts were dug like a "J" shape with the nuke placed around the corner then the whole shaft was back filled.Probably went pretty high though...
Edited by FM on Saturday 20th November 09:56
Back on the original topic of mad science I'll ask a mate next time I see him about the Hydrogen Peroxide subs that were built for the Royal navy.
There was at least one instance of the borehole lid being launched into the air at a rate of knots and disappearing from view. But the "gone into orbit" thing was nothing but the usual sort of informal dramatic exaggeration which was then picked up and spread around by silly people who took it literally. If it really had been launched with "enough speed to get into orbit" it would have been melted by friction with the atmosphere long before it actually got there.
I was always fascinated by a couple of huge old vehicles I used to see dumoed on the outskirts of Portsmouth - Turns out it was a pair of these - http://www.amphibiousvehicle.net/amphi/B/barcspeci...
Not sure if the Pompey pair are still there
Not sure if the Pompey pair are still there
Project Azorian was a magnificent "so crazy it might just work" secret CIA scheme from the cold war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian
Love it....James Bond all the way!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian
Love it....James Bond all the way!
dvs_dave said:
Project Azorian was a magnificent "so crazy it might just work" secret CIA scheme from the cold war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian
Love it....James Bond all the way!
That's a fantastic read. Thanks for that.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian
Love it....James Bond all the way!
NLB said:
Simpo Two said:
Just shows you what can be done when you've got full funding and no environmentalists choking on their tofu over carbons.
Or other emissions...Project Orion
I do have the book on that amazing scheme (very good read, for a lot less than $270).
Spoof said:
dvs_dave said:
Project Azorian was a magnificent "so crazy it might just work" secret CIA scheme from the cold war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian
Love it....James Bond all the way!
That's a fantastic read. Thanks for that.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian
Love it....James Bond all the way!
As a side issue, I love the use of bizarre contractions that the Americans, and especially their military, go in for. The Wikipedia "Project Azorian" article has lots - "SOSUS", "LOFAR", "NavPac Adak", etc etc. I work with various American companies, on projects which are often military related, and the talk of "CONUS" (Continental United States), "CONOPS" (Operational Concept), "LEMV" (Long Endurance Multi-Intelligence Vehicle"), and so on, can be near-incomprehensible to the outsider. It also sounds so odd, and the contractions are often so forced, that the need to keep a diplomatic straight face while these terms whistle past one's ears can be a little onerous.
Not cold war, and didnt even come to fruition, but an interesting read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habbakuk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habbakuk
The Black Flash said:
NLB said:
Simpo Two said:
Just shows you what can be done when you've got full funding and no environmentalists choking on their tofu over carbons.
Or other emissions...Project Orion
I do have the book on that amazing scheme (very good read, for a lot less than $270).
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