I feel a project coming on (v8 defender...)
Discussion
I have garage space that badly needs filling, so I've been kicking around a project to fill my evenings and skin my knuckles on. 90 / Defenders seem to be coming down in price so I think the plan is to resurrect a non-runner, right down to chassis and take it back to the way it should be. Fairly standard, but with a healthy-sized Rover V8 in the engine bay and some better suspension / gearbox along the way.
Anyone done this or similar? Major pitfalls - Defender gearbox and axles are the first concern, but anything else major that I'll come across? This must be a fairly common project so surely it has been done many times before. AWDC members will have done it for instance, although not looking for anything anywhere near that extreme - I'm thinking it should end up looking like a pretty standard XS-style Station Wagon, obviously with the BFG A/T white letters but nothing too far from normal.
Anyone done this or similar? Major pitfalls - Defender gearbox and axles are the first concern, but anything else major that I'll come across? This must be a fairly common project so surely it has been done many times before. AWDC members will have done it for instance, although not looking for anything anywhere near that extreme - I'm thinking it should end up looking like a pretty standard XS-style Station Wagon, obviously with the BFG A/T white letters but nothing too far from normal.
I've budgeted about 10k all told - guessing 2-3k for Defender, 1500 for donor range rover, then the rest on waxoyl / resto although if I can drop the cost on the Defender by finding something that needs even more work then I think that is the way I'd rather go. Going to drip feed the budget in over a year or so after the two big purchases. At the moment, I think I'd rather build it back up from a new chassis and bulkhead than repair and make do. With care and careful pick of components this could become a long-term, reliable toy. This will need to be an on-roader though with some healthy off-road ability rather than an all-out Haflinger or Bowler competitor. I've got a tow-vehicle and daily driver already (XC90) so it doesn't have to be great at motorway miles.
Also thinking I'd feel better about butchering a P38 rather than a Classic (and the 4.6 V8 has a certain appeal
), but I realise that may be a more complicated project.
Also thinking I'd feel better about butchering a P38 rather than a Classic (and the 4.6 V8 has a certain appeal
), but I realise that may be a more complicated project.Vytalis said:
I've budgeted about 10k all told - guessing 2-3k for Defender, 1500 for donor range rover, then the rest on waxoyl / resto although if I can drop the cost on the Defender by finding something that needs even more work then I think that is the way I'd rather go. Going to drip feed the budget in over a year or so after the two big purchases. At the moment, I think I'd rather build it back up from a new chassis and bulkhead than repair and make do. With care and careful pick of components this could become a long-term, reliable toy. This will need to be an on-roader though with some healthy off-road ability rather than an all-out Haflinger or Bowler competitor. I've got a tow-vehicle and daily driver already (XC90) so it doesn't have to be great at motorway miles.
Also thinking I'd feel better about butchering a P38 rather than a Classic (and the 4.6 V8 has a certain appeal ), but I realise that may be a more complicated project.
The biggest trouble is there is so much scope.Also thinking I'd feel better about butchering a P38 rather than a Classic (and the 4.6 V8 has a certain appeal
), but I realise that may be a more complicated project.Also going all new parts might make it pricey, e.g. a new engine will set you back around £4k+ on its own. So wise use of used and reconditioned parts might be an idea.
Also on road and off road setups are quite different, so one will certainly affect the other.
There is no reason why you couldn't find an early Ninety though, add a new chassis and a V8 and mod and build it up.
Other options could include buying a V8 Dico. The chassis is almost the same as are the axles to a Defender. So you could chop the chassis down and put a Defender or even a Series body on it.
The scope is vast though, loads of RV8 engines to pick from or look at more radical engine swaps. Axles, well stock, esp 24 spline ones are likely to be ok for road use. Or you can beef them up, or spend a fortune swapping on Toyota axles or similar.
Thought the discovery was closer to rrc chassis (100")? Only main new parts I was planning on was chassis, bulkhead and probably wheels and aftermarket interior. The rest (engine, gearbox, diffs, etc.) would come straight from the donor p38 (after some fettling). I think some decent aftermarket suspension (not much / no lift) and maybe some upgraded aftermarket axles etc may be the best approach though?
What I'm trying to achieve is a reliable g4 style 90 the way LR engineers should have built it if they were allowed to iyswim
What I'm trying to achieve is a reliable g4 style 90 the way LR engineers should have built it if they were allowed to iyswim
Vytalis said:
Thought the discovery was closer to rrc chassis (100")?
It is, but it's pretty much the same otherwise. The RR is just a longer Series style chassis with coil springs, which then found their way onto the Ninety/One Ten/127 in the early 80's.The basic layout and design is very similar, although there are some changes. But you can adapt one, chop it down and re-weld it. Then galvanize it.
Just an option
Vytalis said:
Only main new parts I was planning on was chassis, bulkhead and probably wheels and aftermarket interior. The rest (engine, gearbox, diffs, etc.) would come straight from the donor p38 (after some fettling).
p38 will cost more than a Disco to use as a donar. Not sure there's a huge gain to be had unless you want to use the air suspension and different trailing arms.4.6 is nice, but there are lots of RV8 options out there.
What g/box are you planning on? I think a manual p38a still uses the same R380 as you'll find in a classic RR or Disco 1 300 Series and onwards.
Some p38a's had tcs on the rear wheels, but not all. But all did have ABS.
Vytalis said:
I think some decent aftermarket suspension (not much / no lift) and maybe some upgraded aftermarket axles etc may be the best approach though?
If it's for road use then a -1 or -2 suspension drop would actually work better, although it wouldn't look as good IMO. I like 4x4's to look like 4x4's.Fitting ARB's, poly bushes and beefing up the spring rate and shocks would help too.
There are also twin shock mounts which might make for some alternative options too.
Vytalis said:
What I'm trying to achieve is a reliable g4 style 90 the way LR engineers should have built it if they were allowed to iyswim
I think if they'd have been allowed too it would look totally different IMO and use very few original parts.Rv8 makes more sense in my mind than (e.g.) small block chevy as I feel a decent r380 gearbox would cope ok and should be a more straightforward swap. I agree with you that the LR is NOT going to be lowered.
Happy to be talked out of the 4.6, what did to have in mind?
Ashcroft half shafts and Monroe suspension with a decent lt230 transfer box should be pretty balanced and reliable I think - or do I completely overdo it and start looking at big American stuff? This should still look and feel like a landy though.
Happy to be talked out of the 4.6, what did to have in mind?
Ashcroft half shafts and Monroe suspension with a decent lt230 transfer box should be pretty balanced and reliable I think - or do I completely overdo it and start looking at big American stuff? This should still look and feel like a landy though.
And I'm going to avoid chopping the chassis I think - would cause all sorts of vosa / dvla problems I think. Far better to do a chassis up rebuild, replacing and enhancing as I go using a new, recognised chassis.
Dammit, I'm now inspired by your username - must resist (or give into wild budget overrun this early in the project).
Dammit, I'm now inspired by your username - must resist (or give into wild budget overrun this early in the project).
Don't Richards do a 100" Defender chassis? (I know there isn't a 100" defender but I'm sure I've seen an advert for one for the hybrid fans.)
OME (Old Man Emu) seem to be rated as the best for aftermarket suspension.
I'd go for Defender/disco/rrc axles rather than P38 for spares and parts availaiblity including wheels.
The R380/LT230 should be more than man enough for upto 300 bhp as long as you are not using outragous tyres.
Thought about starting with a Stage 1 v8 that needs some love? Essentially what you are after and 10k would give you a nice fund for repair and refurbishment.
OME (Old Man Emu) seem to be rated as the best for aftermarket suspension.
I'd go for Defender/disco/rrc axles rather than P38 for spares and parts availaiblity including wheels.
The R380/LT230 should be more than man enough for upto 300 bhp as long as you are not using outragous tyres.
Thought about starting with a Stage 1 v8 that needs some love? Essentially what you are after and 10k would give you a nice fund for repair and refurbishment.
If you didn't want to chop a chassis a 3rd option is to build a D100. Most racers opt for a 100" or 104" wheelbase as it offers greater stability than the D90's 92.9" wheelbase.
The trick is to take a 110 rear tub and chop it down by 10". Shouldn't have any legal issues as the chassis would remain as it is.
Engine wise. Depends on how much money you want to spend. I'm quite fond of the RV8, although if you are thinking different t/case and transmission then maybe something like a Lexus LS400 or even a Jag AJV8 start to look appealing from a HP aspect.
That aside, 4.6 is the easiest larger displacement RV8 and a good starting place if you can find one for sensible money. That said, a 3.9 is likely a lot easier to find and cheaper too. In terms of PEAK hp they are very similar if you tune them as the stock head design limits HP, it's only lower rpm torque that'll be different between them.
What ever you do cam it! I've driven stock RV8's and cammed ones and a cam makes them so much nicer. They still have a strong bottom end torque, but they'll rev so much nicer and be happy spinning round the rev counter where as stock ones always feel a struggle as you wind them out past 3500rpm.
As it's a road biased setup a wilder cam would work well, I'd also be tempted to look at the diff gears, even more so if you upsize the wheels a bit. some 3.90 or 4.10 diffs might be worth while from a power delivery and fun point of view.
Sounds like a fun project this and wish you all the best in it!!! Hope to see some progress pics as it takes place.
The trick is to take a 110 rear tub and chop it down by 10". Shouldn't have any legal issues as the chassis would remain as it is.
Engine wise. Depends on how much money you want to spend. I'm quite fond of the RV8, although if you are thinking different t/case and transmission then maybe something like a Lexus LS400 or even a Jag AJV8 start to look appealing from a HP aspect.
That aside, 4.6 is the easiest larger displacement RV8 and a good starting place if you can find one for sensible money. That said, a 3.9 is likely a lot easier to find and cheaper too. In terms of PEAK hp they are very similar if you tune them as the stock head design limits HP, it's only lower rpm torque that'll be different between them.
What ever you do cam it! I've driven stock RV8's and cammed ones and a cam makes them so much nicer. They still have a strong bottom end torque, but they'll rev so much nicer and be happy spinning round the rev counter where as stock ones always feel a struggle as you wind them out past 3500rpm.
As it's a road biased setup a wilder cam would work well, I'd also be tempted to look at the diff gears, even more so if you upsize the wheels a bit. some 3.90 or 4.10 diffs might be worth while from a power delivery and fun point of view.
Sounds like a fun project this and wish you all the best in it!!!
Hope to see some progress pics as it takes place.Gassing Station | Land Rover | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff