Which Spring Drive would you choose?

[Debaser]

I need to scratch the Spring Drive itch, but need to decide on a watch. I've decided I don't want a chrono so that narrows things down a little. I also want the watch to be on a bracelet which rules out a few more.

Which of the following would you go for, and why? I've already narrowed my choice down to two, and will make my decision after I've tried them on, but I'm interested to see what the PH watch experts would go for. All the prices are taken from the Jura Watches site.

Ananta GMT SNR019 (£3000)



GS white face steel SBGA001 (£4000)



GS black face steel SBGA003 (£4000)



GS white face GMT SBGE005 (£4500)



GS black face GMT SBGE001 (£5000)



GS white face titanium SBGA011 (£5000)



GS steel diver SBGA029 (£5200)



GS titanium diver SBGA031 (£6000)


More info on the GS ones here

This is the first time I've tried setting up a poll so I hope it works (there's no preview button when making a poll).

[andy tims]

Either of the black faced divers would be very nice. Not sure I'd pay extra for the ti, so I chose steel.

[Pints]

I do like titanium and that diver is quite nice, but the price...

[Murph7355]

Is there a reason for wanting a spring drive?

Seiko make some very nice watches, but aesthetically none of those work especially well for me.

The divers' versions are the best of them though IMO.

[Slagathore]

3rd from last for me.

The last two just reminded me of a Rolex.

[LukeBird]

SBGA011 for me.
They do that face in a steel watch don't they?
That'd be my preference as I prefer Steel to Titanium.

[ApexJimi]

Ananta GMT for me I think, out of that lot.

[andy tims]

Slagathore said:

The last two just reminded me of a Rolex.

That'll have been the idea I'm a big Seiko fan, but the Japanese are habitual copy cats.

[whitechief]

Out of the ones posted I'd have the Ananta GMT. If it were my money it'd be this one:

[cyberface]

andy tims said:

Slagathore said:

The last two just reminded me of a Rolex.

That'll have been the idea I'm a big Seiko fan, but the Japanese are habitual copy cats.

Exactamundo, and that's why I'd either have a GS dress watch on a strap, or (more likely) the chronograph pictured above.

Spring Drive is a BIG DEAL and having a Seiko that looks *remotely* like a Rolex really dulls the appeal - it's Seiko's masterpiece movement and deserves to be in something recognisably Seiko, not something that wants to be a Rolex.

Equally I want people who see the watch thinking 'whoa what's that - amazing glide motion', not 'fake Rolex' or 'wannabe Rolex'.

Seiko don't *need* to copy anyone, but they do, so I'd need to choose something that was different and where Seiko had become almost 'cult'… though thinking hard, I can only think of the Orange Monster and I wouldn't pay that much for a Spring Drive Monster unless the case and bracelet were *seriously* upgraded

>>>>>>>>>



ETA - just had a look at the Jura site at their selection of top-end Seiko. Firstly, the old Spring Drive Chrono, IIRC, didn't used to have the 'GS Grand Seiko' badging at the bottom. Perhaps if Seiko have finally decided there are enough high-end watch geeks in Europe that appreciate Seiko's top-end stuff that they'll start selling the GS then they have to brand them such - I would have happily had the normal chrono, power reserve, date, display back and all-important Spring Drive. Then again for £7k I guess Seiko are expecting the average European to want more than the 'standard' £50 SEIKO badge on the dial… after all, the 'Grand Seiko' with its funny font is rather distinctive and you *really* don't see them around in the UK.

Also, since I've wanted the Spring Drive Chrono for some years now (when I had the money, I bought the steel Daytona. Sorry - scratch needed itching... been itched, now I can work towards the Spring Drive, at some point in the future), I've always kept an eye on the market to see what Seiko were offering. Am I hallucinating again or have they made the chrono pushers EVEN LONGER? The original SD Chrono I lusted after had large pushers (they seemed somewhat out of proportion to me) but the picture above is just insane. They'd actually get annoying, I'd have to get them cut down!

ETA again - looking back over my emails, I was offered a Spring Drive GMT back in 2008 by a chap on here for less than £2k - I decided against it because I thought it'd be too big at near 42 mm - what a bloody idiot eh? Doh.

Edited by cyberface on Sunday 5th December 20:51

[immigrant]

SBGA011 with the crepe paper stuck on the dial.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f20/grand-seiko-sbga0...

[LukeBird]

immigrant said:

SBGA011 with the crepe paper stuck on the dial.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f20/grand-seiko-sbga0...

That's the one I want.

Lovely.

[Debaser]

Those macro pictures make it look great. I've only looked through the watches available at Jura's, and the closest to that in steel would be the SBGA001 (above - second one down). There are more choices in Japan but I've not included any in this poll.

Part of the problem with this choice is that I don't dress smartly. For work I just wear jeans type trousers and a polo shirt and I spend the rest of my time in jeans, t shirt and trainers - I want a watch that doesn't look out of place on me. Would the SBGA011 look too dressy on the wrist of a scruffy git?

At the moment I'm wearing my SD which looks fine with jeans (but I think it looks fine with anything). ...I've just realised I'll need to come up with a different way of describing watches if I get a Spring Drive - maybe the Rolex can be the RSD and my next watch can be a GSSD?

I don't know why I want a Spring Drive, but since I first knew they existed I knew I'd have to have one. I also really like the idea of wearing a high end Seiko that'll go unnoticed by most people. It's a shame Seiko like to copy styling but it doesn't stop me wanting one of the divers.

[Miguel Alvarez]

Either Ananta GMT SNR019 (£3000) or GS white face steel SBGA001 (£4000).

I'll be honest though I'm not seeing £3-4k's worth of watch here. i'd have to see one in the flesh.

[cyberface]

Miguel Alvarez said:

Either Ananta GMT SNR019 (£3000) or GS white face steel SBGA001 (£4000).

I'll be honest though I'm not seeing £3-4k's worth of watch here. i'd have to see one in the flesh.

They're pretty much the epitome of a movement-buff's watch, to be fair. There's little in the way of precious metals, obvious expensive branding (unless you know *why* Grand Seiko are expensive) or give-aways like hand-polished anglage in the movement - it's all sharp-edged perfectly-formed ultra-precise parts - I'd expect the edges inside the movement to be as sharp as a Katana sword… it's all about the innovation, and how there's no tick-tock escapement but a perfectly smooth sweep of the second hand.

Seiko say it's smooth like time itself - implying that time isn't quantised in the way that a traditional escapement suggests. Quantum physicists may question this, since IIRC there is the notion of a Planck time, a minimum quantised 'chunk' of time beyond which is indivisible (as opposed to the indivisibility implied by Seiko). However this isn't a problem for Spring Drive since the movement itself is made out of matter, which will be indivisible beyond the Planck length and hence Spring Drive will be as smooth as the laws of physics allow (assuming quantum theory is close to being right, of course)…

The big problem in watch-geek circles has already been noted by Debaser himself… the acronym 'SD' is already popularly assumed to be 'Sea Dweller' as in the Rolex diver. But there's only one Sea Dweller (really), whereas Spring Drive is an entire range of watches (and a range of movements, too)… my bet is on Rolex retaining the 'SD' (sadly) and Seiko fans ending up with a new acronym (SSD? Seiko Spring Drive? SDM? Spring Drive movement?) - since the two words 'Spring Drive' are too much to repeat endlessly in discussion about Seiko's top movements. At least 'Grand Seiko' isn't taken by any other obvious watch that I know of - so a GS is fine

I'd go as far as saying that the watches are somewhere between the ultimate in independent thought, and high luxury. Most people won't admit it, but it's true that most people will consider *other* peoples' perceptions as high in the order of criteria when spending a few thousand pounds on a watch. It's expensive for the vast majority of people, and for many a display of status or wealth or taste. Hence spending that sort of money on a piece branded with the same name as £50 throwaway watches shows that either the few thousand is irrelevant and you have a large collection of other pieces, or that you really are dedicated to what Seiko have done and believe that there *is* a few grand's worth of value in that watch, regardless of badge perception. For the latter, you really are buying for *yourself* and other peoples' perceptions are irrelevant. And that's why relatively few GS are sold over here, however fine the watch (and mostly the movement and dial) may be.

I'll have one eventually for the movement. However having seen the detail of some of the dials at macro-level, you can see how traditional Japanese art can translate to a stunning dial - a credible alternative to traditional guilloché. I wonder whether it'd be going too far to use mokume-gane for the dial, or in less extreme forms as the bracelet material?

[Miguel Alvarez]

cyberface said:

I'd go as far as saying that the watches are somewhere between the ultimate in independent thought, and high luxury. Most people won't admit it, but it's true that most people will consider *other* peoples' perceptions as high in the order of criteria when spending a few thousand pounds on a watch. It's expensive for the vast majority of people, and for many a display of status or wealth or taste. Hence spending that sort of money on a piece branded with the same name as £50 throwaway watches shows that either the few thousand is irrelevant and you have a large collection of other pieces, or that you really are dedicated to what Seiko have done and believe that there *is* a few grand's worth of value in that watch, regardless of badge perception.

You hit the nail on the head. Without wanting to sound like an image slave my concern would be the endless grief I'd get for spending thousands on a seiko or any other company not nomrally known for churning out watches in that price range. Don't get me wrong I have and will buy for myself but part of me can not get past the fact it's just a seiko.

I've yet to buy my first Seiko so am not ready for that first Seiko, even if I had the money, to be one that cost so much.

I also take into account the movement aspect. One thing I tend to take a back seat when the convos are going on as I'm clearly way out of my league with you guys on here but that aside I can't see me looking at the face of the watch thinking I may be eating super noodles and be on a no-sex for a month stint with the missus but hey I got a GS. The fact that she almost tore my balls off over me buying a Rolex I think she'd have a heart attack if I told her I spent that much on a Seiko. The flip of that is she may not even believe me hmmmmmmm. Starting to see the appeal now. Genius Mr Seiko bloody genius.


Edited for poor quoting.

Edited by Miguel Alvarez on Monday 6th December 12:08

[LukeBird]

Miguel Alvarez said:

You hit the nail on the head. Without wanting to sound like an image slave my concern would be the endless grief I'd get for spending thousands on a seiko or any other company not nomrally known for churning out watches in that price range. Don't get me wrong I have and will buy for myself but part of me can not get past the fact it's just a seiko.

It depresses me that part of me agrees with this!
I had so much grief at work for buying an old shabby watch (a 1970s Tudor Submariner that has been in the wars) and then putting on a crappy strap (Bond NATO).
Amusing grief though as I loved the watch and people at work mock me for being a 'watch person' anyway.

Debaser said:

Part of the problem with this choice is that I don't dress smartly. For work I just wear jeans type trousers and a polo shirt and I spend the rest of my time in jeans, t shirt and trainers - I want a watch that doesn't look out of place on me. Would the SBGA011 look too dressy on the wrist of a scruffy git?

Scruffy is the ultimate way to wear a decent watch IMO.

[tertius]

NeMiSiS said:

GS steel diver SBGA029 as chosen in the much earlier " If I gave you 5 grand thread."

Whilst on the subject, I was thinking last night that somebody on here [last time SpringDrives were on topic] mentioned that they were not true mechanical movements. I think it was one of our Andys but I have looked and found nothing, it may have been another dream though.

That would be me

[tertius]

NeMiSiS said:

Thanks Tertius.

I have re-read it and I am still not sure whether it is a Kinetic hybrid or not, I need to sit down and read more info.

If the movement/rotor is a way of making electricity and the capacitors are a way of storing it, and when released it is used to power the sweep movement, then I cry foul.

Its not quite like that - just the same as a normal automatic the rotor is used to wind the mainspring - the spring is the energy store. The difference is that the release of power from the mainspring is controlled (regulated) by an electromagnet instead of by a balance wheel/escapement. It is the oscillations of the balance wheel that creates the 'ticking' of a mechanical watch. Because a spring drive has no oscillating balance wheel and the power is released in the same direction at all times and so it doesn't need to 'tick' but just glides.

www.seikospringdrive.com has a good description.

[Shuvi]

NeMiSiS said:

Thanks Tertius, I'm seeing it now.

It's a mechanical Quartz watch.

Edited by NeMiSiS on Tuesday 7th December 15:58

Not really. It is a watch that works almost the way you'd expect, Instead of the usual escapement/balance it has what Seiko call a glide wheel, this is uni-directional, hence no ticking. Because it's uni-directional with no balance wheel etc, it will unwind the mainspring pretty quickly. To stop this happening Seiko use what is essentially a couple of capacitors to brake the system, allowing the movement to keep very accurate time.

All of this is powered by the same system as in any other automatic movement, Seiko have opted to use a more modern and accurate way of controlling the release of the mainspring.

Horologists consider the Spring Drive to be a true automatic movement.

If AP or Patek had built this, the world would be beating a path to their door, it would be hailed as a great step forward, however, it was Seiko and most think they only make cheap/mid-price watches. They're probably the best watch manufacturer there is. Everything, everything is designed and manufactured in house, they buy nothing in and their quality, even on a £50 beater is second to none

Edited by Shuvi on Tuesday 7th December 17:07