e46 M3's - Manual or SMG?
Discussion
Hi All,
I am looking at purchasing an E46 M3 here in NZ. I've always wanted to own one of these beasts beacuse they offer a good mix of usability and GT performance.
My question is to SMG or not SMG.
I've just driven an SMG and I have to say I liked it.
I'll be test driving a manual version next week, and I'll probably like that too.
Can anyone please offer any advice on if a SMG is something to avoid, or is the one to have?
Thanks
Rich
I am looking at purchasing an E46 M3 here in NZ. I've always wanted to own one of these beasts beacuse they offer a good mix of usability and GT performance.
My question is to SMG or not SMG.
I've just driven an SMG and I have to say I liked it.
I'll be test driving a manual version next week, and I'll probably like that too.
Can anyone please offer any advice on if a SMG is something to avoid, or is the one to have?
Thanks
Rich
SMG's can be more expensive if they go wrong, so you may have to take that into account.
However, don't take any notice of any people who say they will DEFINITELY go wrong, and it'll cost £3000 every time.
Like many newer technologies, initially garages didn't know how to diagnose them properly and many people had expensive components replaced unnecessarily.
A lot of people have now discovered these faults can be caused by broken springs and dodgy sensors. It isn't always the hydraulic pump which fails. The pump failing is the worst case scenario, and IS an expensive job. There are a lot more pumps available second hand these days, but of course you've then got the risk that too will fail at some point.
If you won't be getting a warranty, you DO have to consider whether you could afford a £2000 - £3000 repair bill if the worst did happen.
Some people simply can't get on with them, but if you liked it after a test drive you'll love it after a couple of months when you've properly mastered it. (It can be a bit jerky until you adapt your driving style slightly)
I bought an SMG (after having the same question), and haven't regretted it once. It's fantastic on track, and I love it for day to day driving. I personally genuinely consider it to be the best of both worlds.
It's a tough choice, and you won't be disappointed with whichever version you choose. Both are excellent and have their own pro's and con's.
However, don't take any notice of any people who say they will DEFINITELY go wrong, and it'll cost £3000 every time.
Like many newer technologies, initially garages didn't know how to diagnose them properly and many people had expensive components replaced unnecessarily.
A lot of people have now discovered these faults can be caused by broken springs and dodgy sensors. It isn't always the hydraulic pump which fails. The pump failing is the worst case scenario, and IS an expensive job. There are a lot more pumps available second hand these days, but of course you've then got the risk that too will fail at some point.
If you won't be getting a warranty, you DO have to consider whether you could afford a £2000 - £3000 repair bill if the worst did happen.
Some people simply can't get on with them, but if you liked it after a test drive you'll love it after a couple of months when you've properly mastered it. (It can be a bit jerky until you adapt your driving style slightly)
I bought an SMG (after having the same question), and haven't regretted it once. It's fantastic on track, and I love it for day to day driving. I personally genuinely consider it to be the best of both worlds.
It's a tough choice, and you won't be disappointed with whichever version you choose. Both are excellent and have their own pro's and con's.
Richard7K said:
Thanks everyone.
While I am very tempted to had over the cash for the car I drove yesterday I think I'll test drive a couple more.
BTW, the car I drove yesterday played MP3 CD's via it's 6 disc changer; is that a standard feature?
Thanks
Rich
MP3 ability is only there on the later cars - from about Oct 2004 if I remember right. Worth checking on each one you look at, as there are lots of different headunits with different capabilities that all look the same.While I am very tempted to had over the cash for the car I drove yesterday I think I'll test drive a couple more.
BTW, the car I drove yesterday played MP3 CD's via it's 6 disc changer; is that a standard feature?
Thanks
Rich
The pro SMG group seem stronger on this thread than the con group. Overall, I think they are probably evenly balanced, with very strong feelings on either side.
I am from the con group - I would not have a car with SMG. I had a reasonable amount experience of using SMG, although I have never owned an SMG car myself (I had a manual E46 M3, my father had an SMG one, my son has a car with a similar gearbox).
I am obsessive about driving smoothly. My feeling is that it is more difficult to make smooth upchanges in an SMG car than in a manual one, and in spite of that you are deprived of an extra level of both control and satisfaction compared to a manual by not having a clutch pedal. (You cannot enjoy making perfect H & T downchanges, for one thing.)
BTW, I have a DCT E92 M3 - I think the DCT is great, and a completely different world from the SMG.
I am from the con group - I would not have a car with SMG. I had a reasonable amount experience of using SMG, although I have never owned an SMG car myself (I had a manual E46 M3, my father had an SMG one, my son has a car with a similar gearbox).
I am obsessive about driving smoothly. My feeling is that it is more difficult to make smooth upchanges in an SMG car than in a manual one, and in spite of that you are deprived of an extra level of both control and satisfaction compared to a manual by not having a clutch pedal. (You cannot enjoy making perfect H & T downchanges, for one thing.)
BTW, I have a DCT E92 M3 - I think the DCT is great, and a completely different world from the SMG.
I guess the best plan is to drive both and see which one puts the bigger smile on my face. :>)
I can definitely understand way a SMG would make for a car special for one owner and yet a lack of control for another. Right now I sit in the middle.
The cost of fixing an SMG does worry me a bit though....
Thanks
Rich
I can definitely understand way a SMG would make for a car special for one owner and yet a lack of control for another. Right now I sit in the middle.
The cost of fixing an SMG does worry me a bit though....
Thanks
Rich
SMG standard fitment on a CSL. That was good enough for me, it takes a fair bit of getting use to and a bit irritating in and around town. Once on open roads or track it comes into its own.
I don't bother with the auto mode or anything less than 5bars. Leave the sport button off its a bad idea anyway.
I'd say buy a SMG or Manual, the lowest miler you can afford.
I don't bother with the auto mode or anything less than 5bars. Leave the sport button off its a bad idea anyway.
I'd say buy a SMG or Manual, the lowest miler you can afford.
but my next car will be a manual for a chance Test drove more manuals than SMG when I bought mine. The issue I had with the manuals was the long throw took away the performance car feel. Having had my SMG for over 2 years now I do wonder why someone would want a manual over it.
Given, it took a while to get the upshifts as smooth as I wanted and the auto mode becomes a bit useless if you want to move on a bit, but being able to keep both hands on the wheel and just flick the gears is an awesome feeling.
Given, it took a while to get the upshifts as smooth as I wanted and the auto mode becomes a bit useless if you want to move on a bit, but being able to keep both hands on the wheel and just flick the gears is an awesome feeling.
It really seems to be a 50:50 call!
Both transmission options seem to have died in the wool supporters and detractors that's for sure.
One thing that doesn't seem to change is everyone seems to really like their M3 and that's great!
It's been a dream of mine to own a high performance tourer for a long time, so I am really looking forward to owning the machine.
I'm not new to high performance motoring. I own drive a Lotus 7 sportscar on the road and race it, and have been a ally co-driver for the last 15 years including co-driving at international level in APRC, WRC and NZRC events, so I do like my cars!
The choice I have to make on what to buy came down to a new Evo 8 Group N rally car or a nice toy for the road. Family considerations make the M3 the best option for me I think. More time with the family in a very nice car seems like a really good idea.
Thanks for all the input guys!
Rich
Both transmission options seem to have died in the wool supporters and detractors that's for sure.
One thing that doesn't seem to change is everyone seems to really like their M3 and that's great!
It's been a dream of mine to own a high performance tourer for a long time, so I am really looking forward to owning the machine.
I'm not new to high performance motoring. I own drive a Lotus 7 sportscar on the road and race it, and have been a ally co-driver for the last 15 years including co-driving at international level in APRC, WRC and NZRC events, so I do like my cars!
The choice I have to make on what to buy came down to a new Evo 8 Group N rally car or a nice toy for the road. Family considerations make the M3 the best option for me I think. More time with the family in a very nice car seems like a really good idea.
Thanks for all the input guys!
Rich
Just bought an E46 convertible M3 with SMG (profile piccy!) and I have to say I wouldn't want it any other way!!
It is so nice to be able to knock it into auto when running up the m-way instead of the stop-start 4th, to 2nd, to 3rd, to 2nd, to 3rd, to 4th, to 2nd, well, you get the picture! But at the same time, it is a fantastic feeling to go into a corner when 'driving enthusiastically' and timing a downshift perfectly so it pulls into a perfect exit, and with a car like an M3, it is sometimes more appropriate to keep both hands on the wheel when cornering!!
Overall, I wouldn't complain if I had bought a manual, I'm sure they are fantastic, but if I were looking for another one, I would absolutely have another SMG. Calculated risk of things going wrong with the gearbox taken into account too!
It is so nice to be able to knock it into auto when running up the m-way instead of the stop-start 4th, to 2nd, to 3rd, to 2nd, to 3rd, to 4th, to 2nd, well, you get the picture! But at the same time, it is a fantastic feeling to go into a corner when 'driving enthusiastically' and timing a downshift perfectly so it pulls into a perfect exit, and with a car like an M3, it is sometimes more appropriate to keep both hands on the wheel when cornering!!
Overall, I wouldn't complain if I had bought a manual, I'm sure they are fantastic, but if I were looking for another one, I would absolutely have another SMG. Calculated risk of things going wrong with the gearbox taken into account too!
Jonboy_T--- Nice and Shiney !!
With SMG in manual mode it'll change down for you according to speed. So you onlt have to click it up the gears in traffic.
Another thing is start from stationary in 2nd, saves a gear change for stop/start traffic. This can be fun at times, one long gear all the way up to 60ish.
With SMG in manual mode it'll change down for you according to speed. So you onlt have to click it up the gears in traffic.
Another thing is start from stationary in 2nd, saves a gear change for stop/start traffic. This can be fun at times, one long gear all the way up to 60ish.
Edited by AndrewO on Tuesday 14th December 23:10
Edited by AndrewO on Tuesday 14th December 23:11
I had both a E36 M3 Evo SMG and a E46 M3 SMGII.
I found the SMG superb and i spent quite a bit of time mastering it to the best of my abilities. The SMGII was phenomenal , simply superb i cant think of anyhting against it , I miss it a great deal I must say , far better than Porsche's Tiptronic system in all ways ...
I found the SMG superb and i spent quite a bit of time mastering it to the best of my abilities. The SMGII was phenomenal , simply superb i cant think of anyhting against it , I miss it a great deal I must say , far better than Porsche's Tiptronic system in all ways ...
By the sound of it you haven't driven both yet, so that's the first thing to do. Then once you can decide between SMG and manual make a choice based on condition rather than mileage.
Lower mileage is great, but you pay for it - just look at the ads on here to see that. I'd rather have a 60k miler that's been looked after by an enthusiast for the majority of its life than a 30k car which only comes out an weekends for a bit of abuse.
Don't be put off by the SMG. Yes it can fail and cost a lot, but so can a manual box. If its been looked after and the mileage is reasonable then you'll be unlucky to have any major problems from the box. And all that's coming from a manual M3 owner.
Lower mileage is great, but you pay for it - just look at the ads on here to see that. I'd rather have a 60k miler that's been looked after by an enthusiast for the majority of its life than a 30k car which only comes out an weekends for a bit of abuse.
Don't be put off by the SMG. Yes it can fail and cost a lot, but so can a manual box. If its been looked after and the mileage is reasonable then you'll be unlucky to have any major problems from the box. And all that's coming from a manual M3 owner.
[quote=The Ferret]By the sound of it you haven't driven both yet, so that's the first thing to do. Then once you can decide between SMG and manual make a choice based on condition rather than mileage.
quote]
^^This! But don't be put off by the SMG when you first get in it. It does take a while to get to grips with and will not play as nicely as normal when the gearbox is cold, so do a good run where you need to change gear a lot to get a better view of what it's like to live with.
Also, if possible, run it through all of the gearbox ferocity (is that what it's called?) settings and you will find one that you prefer. The lower the setting, the longer it takes to change gear and vice versa - I find that one bar off of the top setting is good for me for sprited driving and the lowest is perfect for pootling around.
quote]
^^This! But don't be put off by the SMG when you first get in it. It does take a while to get to grips with and will not play as nicely as normal when the gearbox is cold, so do a good run where you need to change gear a lot to get a better view of what it's like to live with.
Also, if possible, run it through all of the gearbox ferocity (is that what it's called?) settings and you will find one that you prefer. The lower the setting, the longer it takes to change gear and vice versa - I find that one bar off of the top setting is good for me for sprited driving and the lowest is perfect for pootling around.
Edited by Jonboy_t on Thursday 16th December 12:30
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