How do Scottish house purchases progress?
Discussion
I understand the theoretical and legal basics, but it is the practicalties which confuse.
I really liked the idea of having a survey and sellers Qr in some HIPS pack, very useful.
But I assume that people must sell their own house and rent/share while they look for a new one? Otherwise co-ordinating sales when you are obligated to go forward must be a nightmare.
I have started looking just over the border but if I cannot find the right house I will stay where I am in England. As I read it, to do this I need to find and commit to the new place so that I know it is going through, and then either sell in England very quickly or (more likely) finanace both places during the overlap with a bridging or similar loan? Complicated further because we are selling 2 houszes in England to buy one in Scotland but made easier because neither of the English houses are mortgaged.
So how does it work in practice?
I really liked the idea of having a survey and sellers Qr in some HIPS pack, very useful.
But I assume that people must sell their own house and rent/share while they look for a new one? Otherwise co-ordinating sales when you are obligated to go forward must be a nightmare.
I have started looking just over the border but if I cannot find the right house I will stay where I am in England. As I read it, to do this I need to find and commit to the new place so that I know it is going through, and then either sell in England very quickly or (more likely) finanace both places during the overlap with a bridging or similar loan? Complicated further because we are selling 2 houszes in England to buy one in Scotland but made easier because neither of the English houses are mortgaged.
So how does it work in practice?
In this climate in Scotland, I would avoid signing missives for a house purchase before the house you are selling is completely sold.
I've sold two houses in the last two years and each time I've waited until that ^^ has happened and it puts you in a strong position when buying...
I see you are not mortgaged, but three lots running costs for a house must be a pain in the a*s...
Bridging loan could be a possibility?
I've sold two houses in the last two years and each time I've waited until that ^^ has happened and it puts you in a strong position when buying...
I see you are not mortgaged, but three lots running costs for a house must be a pain in the a*s...
Bridging loan could be a possibility?
Edited by FamilyDub on Monday 13th December 09:34
Traditionally the house would go on the market with an 'upset' price i.e. offers over. If you wanted to buy you would then, through your solicitor, put in a sealed bid, when the seller would then through his solicitor set a closing date. On the alloted date they would then open the bids, usually the house goes to the highest bidder, but bids also would include an 'entry date' and sometimes the seller would accept a lower bid to secure an early entry when the sale would formally be concluded.
However, in todays market many houses are fixed price or 'offers around', the entry date is still a factor since that is as I said before, when the sale is actually concluded.
You can secure your house before you sell your own properties by putting a long entry date on the one you want to buy, this sometimes suits a seller if they want to sell before they buy. Be warned though, once your offer is accepted, it is very difficult, not to say expensive to get out of the purchase since its a legally binding agreement.
G
However, in todays market many houses are fixed price or 'offers around', the entry date is still a factor since that is as I said before, when the sale is actually concluded.
You can secure your house before you sell your own properties by putting a long entry date on the one you want to buy, this sometimes suits a seller if they want to sell before they buy. Be warned though, once your offer is accepted, it is very difficult, not to say expensive to get out of the purchase since its a legally binding agreement.
G
VetteG said:
Traditionally the house would go on the market with an 'upset' price i.e. offers over. If you wanted to buy you would then, through your solicitor, put in a sealed bid, when the seller would then through his solicitor set a closing date. On the alloted date they would then open the bids, usually the house goes to the highest bidder, but bids also would include an 'entry date' and sometimes the seller would accept a lower bid to secure an early entry when the sale would formally be concluded.
However, in todays market many houses are fixed price or 'offers around', the entry date is still a factor since that is as I said before, when the sale is actually concluded.
You can secure your house before you sell your own properties by putting a long entry date on the one you want to buy, this sometimes suits a seller if they want to sell before they buy. Be warned though, once your offer is accepted, it is very difficult, not to say expensive to get out of the purchase since its a legally binding agreement.
G
All seems to make it difficult to look for a house and only move if you see something special and better than what you have.However, in todays market many houses are fixed price or 'offers around', the entry date is still a factor since that is as I said before, when the sale is actually concluded.
You can secure your house before you sell your own properties by putting a long entry date on the one you want to buy, this sometimes suits a seller if they want to sell before they buy. Be warned though, once your offer is accepted, it is very difficult, not to say expensive to get out of the purchase since its a legally binding agreement.
G
Cogcog said:
All seems to make it difficult to look for a house and only move if you see something special and better than what you have.
Not really, there are advantages to the Scottish system in that you cannot get gazumped and your not dependent on a chain of sellers. What I did not say was that entry dates can be negotiated between the buyer and the seller before concluding the sale. The difficulty comes if by the entry date you havent sold your property, then you would have to take out bridging finance until your property is sold. But you do have the house you wanted to buy. Your best bet is to have a chat with a solicitor in the area where you are looking to buy.G
VetteG said:
Not really, there are advantages to the Scottish system in that you cannot get gazumped and your not dependent on a chain of sellers. What I did not say was that entry dates can be negotiated between the buyer and the seller before concluding the sale. The difficulty comes if by the entry date you havent sold your property, then you would have to take out bridging finance until your property is sold. But you do have the house you wanted to buy. Your best bet is to have a chat with a solicitor in the area where you are looking to buy.
G
Having had a chain fall through twice in the last 4 months I would beg to differ.G
You still end up with chains and gazumping, or gazundering which occurs quite frequently now. the only difference really is that you sign missives which legally bind you to a sale. However people do still pull out and in reality it's very difficult to sue and often not worth the hassle.
In reality the 'offers over' system is dead with the advent of the home reports. Only a lunatic would now pay over valuation which is why you often now see prices below HR value.
Have a look here for some good info on the current Scottish housing market:
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?s...
The "good stuff" still goes over. Regardless of that, you have to be in a position to buy and selling solicitors will not entertain your bid unless you have proved you have finances in place. Whether that's mortgage or savings is up to you. We got lucky and bought first then sold ours, exchanging on the same day, but had a mortgage lined up just in case. Bridging loans are virtually unheard of these days.
So basically if you are looking out for something special you need to be ready to go....
So basically if you are looking out for something special you need to be ready to go....
So, what is the difference between 'offers around' 'Guide price' and 'offers over'.
Reading that link about house prices it seems that they now all just mean 'offers'.
Looking at the national picture, property is achieving 88% of the asking price. Does that mean that if there is a place at £400K with 'offers around' I could offer £360K and expect them to consider it, and if they had 'offers over' £400k and I offered them £360K are they likely to spit in my eye? Most of the places I have lookled at have been on the market a while so they don't have a rish of buyers in a position to proceed by the looks of it. Most have already reduced the price (be that guide price or the 'offers over' price).
Some of the folks on that housepricecrash site are suggesting offering 30% under the asking price even in Scotland! Of the ones I have in my sights one is empty and has been for 2 years. They have sold off the land and a cottage in the grounds and out it back on. The other is one where the renovators have obviously run out of money. No certificates on the damp work or woodworm treatment, survey tears the place to bits ands since the survey in early summer they haven't done anything (even the electrics are still incomplete). Again they are splitting the land up and selling it as lots but the survey suggests they still have about 30% of the asking price to spend to complete the job. They were even suggesting the uninstalled sanitaryware could be bought at a price. Things look a bit desperate TBH. But it looks like I need to sell here first before taking advantage.
Reading that link about house prices it seems that they now all just mean 'offers'.
Looking at the national picture, property is achieving 88% of the asking price. Does that mean that if there is a place at £400K with 'offers around' I could offer £360K and expect them to consider it, and if they had 'offers over' £400k and I offered them £360K are they likely to spit in my eye? Most of the places I have lookled at have been on the market a while so they don't have a rish of buyers in a position to proceed by the looks of it. Most have already reduced the price (be that guide price or the 'offers over' price).
Some of the folks on that housepricecrash site are suggesting offering 30% under the asking price even in Scotland! Of the ones I have in my sights one is empty and has been for 2 years. They have sold off the land and a cottage in the grounds and out it back on. The other is one where the renovators have obviously run out of money. No certificates on the damp work or woodworm treatment, survey tears the place to bits ands since the survey in early summer they haven't done anything (even the electrics are still incomplete). Again they are splitting the land up and selling it as lots but the survey suggests they still have about 30% of the asking price to spend to complete the job. They were even suggesting the uninstalled sanitaryware could be bought at a price. Things look a bit desperate TBH. But it looks like I need to sell here first before taking advantage.
Edited by Cogcog on Tuesday 14th December 20:03
VetteG said:
Be warned though, once your offer is accepted, it is very difficult, not to say expensive to get out of the purchase since its a legally binding agreement.
G
Ha bl##dy Ha!G
Sold house and two days before contacts were due to be exchanged sellers solicitor calls mine, slight delay in monies from overseas but no worries we have purchased numerous properties for client.
After two weeks of delays and excuses no more contact from his solicitor ans they wont return calls turns out house was bieng bought in name of someone and buyer has no registered assests in his name so no point in pursuing him so it was sell new house and return to old house or bridging loan? 3 months later we finally sold it
Expensive lesson so resarch your buyer
Would not wish scenario on anyone!
Edited by S2red on Tuesday 14th December 21:30
If you have found a property that you want and it has been on the market for a while, get the ball rolling by asking the agent what is the least the sellers will accept for the property. You will be surprised how much information an estate agent will give regarding his clients bottom price. They only get paid when the house sells and in general they don't really care how much that is.
Irrespective of valuation a property is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, make a cheeky verbal offer to the estate agent and see what the response is. This is the quickest way to negotiating a mutualy agreed selling price. You will get one of three responses, a flat "f
k off", a "we will not accept that but me would consider this" or "how quick can you come up with the money".
Once you have established what the seller is prepared to accept then you can instruct your solicitor to make a formal written offer and start the legal process rolling. If you are the only person interested in the property there will be no closing date and no need for sealed bids, effectively you will have negotiated the price prior to submitting your formal offer.
The onus is on your solicitor (not the sellers as stated in a previous post) to satisfy himself that you have the funds to complete the transaction before he makes a formal offer. He will be in breach of Law Society regulations if he does not do this and will be held to account by the sellers solicitor if you subsequently do not have the funds to complete.
If the property owner is willing to sell substantialy below the asking price then normaly they are looking for a quick sale so you have to be in a position to do this. It is very unlikely they will agree to a low selling price and a long entry date. You need to have a clean offer and and have the funds in place. I have bought properties at rock bottom prices because I was able to settle in weeks rather than months. You obviously need a cooperative solicitor who is willing to move faster than the usual snails pace they prefer.
If I was in your situation I would arrange finance on the Enlish properties (to be drawn down when required with deferred interest until they are sold) and then enter the Scottish market as a cash buyer. Obviously you would need to be confident that the English properties will sell otherwise you could get in a bit of a mess.
The Scottish house buying system works well for those who have done their homework and have the funds available to complete the transaction. It can be daunting for those who have yet to sell their house and have no alternative funds available.
Irrespective of valuation a property is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, make a cheeky verbal offer to the estate agent and see what the response is. This is the quickest way to negotiating a mutualy agreed selling price. You will get one of three responses, a flat "f
k off", a "we will not accept that but me would consider this" or "how quick can you come up with the money".Once you have established what the seller is prepared to accept then you can instruct your solicitor to make a formal written offer and start the legal process rolling. If you are the only person interested in the property there will be no closing date and no need for sealed bids, effectively you will have negotiated the price prior to submitting your formal offer.
The onus is on your solicitor (not the sellers as stated in a previous post) to satisfy himself that you have the funds to complete the transaction before he makes a formal offer. He will be in breach of Law Society regulations if he does not do this and will be held to account by the sellers solicitor if you subsequently do not have the funds to complete.
If the property owner is willing to sell substantialy below the asking price then normaly they are looking for a quick sale so you have to be in a position to do this. It is very unlikely they will agree to a low selling price and a long entry date. You need to have a clean offer and and have the funds in place. I have bought properties at rock bottom prices because I was able to settle in weeks rather than months. You obviously need a cooperative solicitor who is willing to move faster than the usual snails pace they prefer.
If I was in your situation I would arrange finance on the Enlish properties (to be drawn down when required with deferred interest until they are sold) and then enter the Scottish market as a cash buyer. Obviously you would need to be confident that the English properties will sell otherwise you could get in a bit of a mess.
The Scottish house buying system works well for those who have done their homework and have the funds available to complete the transaction. It can be daunting for those who have yet to sell their house and have no alternative funds available.
bigblock said:
If you have found a property that you want and it has been on the market for a while, get the ball rolling by asking the agent what is the least the sellers will accept for the property. You will be surprised how much information an estate agent will give regarding his clients bottom price. They only get paid when the house sells and in general they don't really care how much that is.
Irrespective of valuation a property is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, make a cheeky verbal offer to the estate agent and see what the response is. This is the quickest way to negotiating a mutualy agreed selling price. You will get one of three responses, a flat "fk off", a "we will not accept that but me would consider this" or "how quick can you come up with the money".
Once you have established what the seller is prepared to accept then you can instruct your solicitor to make a formal written offer and start the legal process rolling. If you are the only person interested in the property there will be no closing date and no need for sealed bids, effectively you will have negotiated the price prior to submitting your formal offer.
The onus is on your solicitor (not the sellers as stated in a previous post) to satisfy himself that you have the funds to complete the transaction before he makes a formal offer. He will be in breach of Law Society regulations if he does not do this and will be held to account by the sellers solicitor if you subsequently do not have the funds to complete.
If the property owner is willing to sell substantialy below the asking price then normaly they are looking for a quick sale so you have to be in a position to do this. It is very unlikely they will agree to a low selling price and a long entry date. You need to have a clean offer and and have the funds in place. I have bought properties at rock bottom prices because I was able to settle in weeks rather than months. You obviously need a cooperative solicitor who is willing to move faster than the usual snails pace they prefer.
If I was in your situation I would arrange finance on the Enlish properties (to be drawn down when required with deferred interest until they are sold) and then enter the Scottish market as a cash buyer. Obviously you would need to be confident that the English properties will sell otherwise you could get in a bit of a mess.
The Scottish house buying system works well for those who have done their homework and have the funds available to complete the transaction. It can be daunting for those who have yet to sell their house and have no alternative funds available.
That is great advice. I have had an off-set mortage with my current bank since the early 1990s, and although I paid it off with a lump sum in 2002, I have always kept the account open as it offered me £80K at mortgage rates should I ever need it. I had thought about getting their agreement to extend that mortgage to about £200K (40% of the house value), adding £200K cash and making a cheeky offer on the place up at £495K in Scotland as I think the one I am looking at is empty as the result of a death or move to a care home. I can then make the new place liveable again(I have a disabled mother in law) before selling one or both of the English houses to pay off the mortage. A plan!Irrespective of valuation a property is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, make a cheeky verbal offer to the estate agent and see what the response is. This is the quickest way to negotiating a mutualy agreed selling price. You will get one of three responses, a flat "f
k off", a "we will not accept that but me would consider this" or "how quick can you come up with the money".Once you have established what the seller is prepared to accept then you can instruct your solicitor to make a formal written offer and start the legal process rolling. If you are the only person interested in the property there will be no closing date and no need for sealed bids, effectively you will have negotiated the price prior to submitting your formal offer.
The onus is on your solicitor (not the sellers as stated in a previous post) to satisfy himself that you have the funds to complete the transaction before he makes a formal offer. He will be in breach of Law Society regulations if he does not do this and will be held to account by the sellers solicitor if you subsequently do not have the funds to complete.
If the property owner is willing to sell substantialy below the asking price then normaly they are looking for a quick sale so you have to be in a position to do this. It is very unlikely they will agree to a low selling price and a long entry date. You need to have a clean offer and and have the funds in place. I have bought properties at rock bottom prices because I was able to settle in weeks rather than months. You obviously need a cooperative solicitor who is willing to move faster than the usual snails pace they prefer.
If I was in your situation I would arrange finance on the Enlish properties (to be drawn down when required with deferred interest until they are sold) and then enter the Scottish market as a cash buyer. Obviously you would need to be confident that the English properties will sell otherwise you could get in a bit of a mess.
The Scottish house buying system works well for those who have done their homework and have the funds available to complete the transaction. It can be daunting for those who have yet to sell their house and have no alternative funds available.
Not bought for while because of above fiasco but is one of the main differences between prices either side of border not that we tend to advertise at lower than we want and expect to get more(offers over) through blind bidding at closing date whereas down south they advertise round about what they expect?
Cogcog said:
That is great advice. I have had an off-set mortage with my current bank since the early 1990s, and although I paid it off with a lump sum in 2002, I have always kept the account open as it offered me £80K at mortgage rates should I ever need it. I had thought about getting their agreement to extend that mortgage to about £200K (40% of the house value), adding £200K cash and making a cheeky offer on the place up at £495K in Scotland as I think the one I am looking at is empty as the result of a death or move to a care home. I can then make the new place liveable again(I have a disabled mother in law) before selling one or both of the English houses to pay off the mortage. A plan!
I know the house you are interested in and I reckon that an offer of around £400k would be a reasonable offer in todays market given the amount of renovation work required. Bear in mind that there are at least another two dozen properties of this type and condition scattered around Scotland that are available to buy if you know where to look. I advise checking out as many as possible before making a commitment.
bigblock said:
Cogcog said:
That is great advice. I have had an off-set mortage with my current bank since the early 1990s, and although I paid it off with a lump sum in 2002, I have always kept the account open as it offered me £80K at mortgage rates should I ever need it. I had thought about getting their agreement to extend that mortgage to about £200K (40% of the house value), adding £200K cash and making a cheeky offer on the place up at £495K in Scotland as I think the one I am looking at is empty as the result of a death or move to a care home. I can then make the new place liveable again(I have a disabled mother in law) before selling one or both of the English houses to pay off the mortage. A plan!
I know the house you are interested in and I reckon that an offer of around £400k would be a reasonable offer in todays market given the amount of renovation work required. Bear in mind that there are at least another two dozen properties of this type and condition scattered around Scotland that are available to buy if you know where to look. I advise checking out as many as possible before making a commitment.
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