Whatever happened to the 965???
Discussion
No, its not a misprint.
I have just come across a "Car" magazine from November 1988, who show a picture of a red Porsche, at speed under testing (various electrinic bits attached to it).
The front looks like a 993 (not 964), the back like a 959. The writing says:
"The 1991 965 biturbo is getting into gear to take the crown from the limited edition 959. It asopts several styling cues from the 9595, as well as carrera 4 suspension, 4wd, power steering, ABS and a 3.6 litre 24v Boxer engine. This intercooled, twin turbo powerhouse is believed to give 370 bhp..."
A casualty of the recession???
I will try and scan a picture in later for you...
I have just come across a "Car" magazine from November 1988, who show a picture of a red Porsche, at speed under testing (various electrinic bits attached to it).
The front looks like a 993 (not 964), the back like a 959. The writing says:
"The 1991 965 biturbo is getting into gear to take the crown from the limited edition 959. It asopts several styling cues from the 9595, as well as carrera 4 suspension, 4wd, power steering, ABS and a 3.6 litre 24v Boxer engine. This intercooled, twin turbo powerhouse is believed to give 370 bhp..."
A casualty of the recession???
I will try and scan a picture in later for you...
it would be interesting to see a picture William..
993 front 959 back sounds like a...959
The 965 most of us know is the designation that was given to the Turbo versions of the 964.
Strange that it was due to eclipse the 959,,the level of complexity of the 959 over other porsche of the time is astounding.
993 front 959 back sounds like a...959
The 965 most of us know is the designation that was given to the Turbo versions of the 964.
Strange that it was due to eclipse the 959,,the level of complexity of the 959 over other porsche of the time is astounding.
williamp said:
No, its not a misprint.
The front looks like a 993 (not 964), the back like a 959. The writing says:
"The 1991 965 biturbo is getting into gear to take the crown from the limited edition 959. It asopts several styling cues from the 9595, as well as carrera 4 suspension, 4wd, power steering, ABS and a 3.6 litre 24v Boxer engine. This intercooled, twin turbo powerhouse is believed to give 370 bhp..."
A casualty of the recession???
I will try and scan a picture in later for you...
They MADE the 965 - the Turbo 2, based on the 964.
Could this be one of the early reports where Autocar merely have a good guess at a non-finalised package?
One of the reasons they did a 3.6 variant later was because the 1991 3.3 965 was rushed through development using the 930 engine (rather than the 964 derived one). Power of the 3.6 was 360 - very similar to the 370 bhp Autocar alluded to.
Canning twin turbos and 4wd would have been a sensible choice to avoid complication. These later turned up on the 993 Turbo 4 a few years later...
As for the funny styling cues, maybe it was just some prototype panels - they had done flat nose turbos and even 928 nose turbos before. They would also be happy to disguise it from its competitors' eyes.
Err, no they didn't. 965 has just been adopted as the name for the 964 turbo. Porsche were going to make a 'new' turbo along the lines described. However, it never happened. 
They used it as a test bed for a rear V8, in the end....
>> Edited by ultra violent on Monday 19th April 14:25
They used it as a test bed for a rear V8, in the end....
>> Edited by ultra violent on Monday 19th April 14:25
UV, you know more about these turbo things than me, so I'll believe you.
But it seems odd that they were planning on building a supercar turbo called a 965 based on a 911, then they happened to build a 911 turbo supercar called a 965!
What's to say the 4wd and twin turbos weren't destined for the T2, but budget and development time meant they had to wait until the 993?
Or am I completely missing the point and will has a pic of the car that would have been a mid 90's Carrera GT?
But it seems odd that they were planning on building a supercar turbo called a 965 based on a 911, then they happened to build a 911 turbo supercar called a 965!
What's to say the 4wd and twin turbos weren't destined for the T2, but budget and development time meant they had to wait until the 993?
Or am I completely missing the point and will has a pic of the car that would have been a mid 90's Carrera GT?
Looking forward to seeing the pic....but consider the cost of the 959 at the time...it amazes me that they thought they would be able to get this technology through to a "regular" production porsche only a few years later.
I would expect the correction in asset prices around 1989 in both property and premiums paid for exotic cars, made it more viable to put the proven 930 running gear into the new 964 based body. Probably why it took until 1995 model year to see these developments in the 993TT.
Porsche probably made more on the 959 from athena poster royalties than they did from the actual car
I would expect the correction in asset prices around 1989 in both property and premiums paid for exotic cars, made it more viable to put the proven 930 running gear into the new 964 based body. Probably why it took until 1995 model year to see these developments in the 993TT.
Porsche probably made more on the 959 from athena poster royalties than they did from the actual car
Yeah, Porsche expected the 959 technology to have become more afordable by the time the 965 was to be completed. However, it didn't, and the costs and specs of the 965 lept making it an unrealistic proposal for a 'normal' car.
Offically the 964 Turbo was never known as a 965.
You'd also be surprised how littled technology from the 959 ever made it out to us poor people...
Offically the 964 Turbo was never known as a 965.
You'd also be surprised how littled technology from the 959 ever made it out to us poor people...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10156&item=2473815550&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
and heres on for sale (i think)
>> Edited by majesticproperti on Monday 19th April 15:44
and heres on for sale (i think)
>> Edited by majesticproperti on Monday 19th April 15:44
UV - May I beg to differ with you? I can't find my "bible" right now, but clearly recall some 964 Turbo parts as having a 965 designation - specifically brake parts that are common also to the 964 RS.
...and some time ago I recall seeing a Porsche AG document listing the internal designation numbers for all cars - there were some very unusual models there ISTR - I bet a clever google search might uncover a copy of it.
...and some time ago I recall seeing a Porsche AG document listing the internal designation numbers for all cars - there were some very unusual models there ISTR - I bet a clever google search might uncover a copy of it.
"Well, the 965 you’d have to say was along Bott lines. It was to be a twin turbo four-wheel-drive, all singing, all dancing, top of the range turbo model. We have the story in the book. We have a couple of pictures of styling models of the car and they built a number of prototypes. Bez essentially killed the 965 program. He felt it would be way too expensive, too complex, too heavy, too everything and eventually, during his administration, the project was stopped. They regrouped and relaunched a very clever turbo adaptation that kept the Turbo in business. The 965 also served as a trial horse for some other engines that they were thinking of for the future, liquid cooled V8s in the rear, that sort of thing, which I think we show for the first time in the book."
From Karl Ludvigsen....
From Karl Ludvigsen....
ultra violent said:
That's just the 964 3.6t flatnose. It comes with the X88 engine option as std, hence the reference to 'S'.
The problem with the 965, was it was more 959 than 993tt, hence the project was binned. There is some info in one of the Bently manuals I think...
correct. I never looked at the full picture. the rear is very different. It was the size of the pic that got me, never scrolled along. that will teach me for being clever. lol
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