20K E60 M5, Financial Suicide?
Discussion
I have been looking for a VXR8 for upto about £18k, but so far the classifieds haven't thrown up anything that suits. I don't want an auto. I like the simplicity of the VXR8, as it will be a 25k miles a year daily driver and apart from fuel, would have sensible running costs. For my money, I can buy a 2008 20k mile example.
I can't help but notice though, that a little bit more gets me into the first of the E60 M5s with approx 50k miles on. How durable are the mechanics on these cars?
http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2190994.htm
Edited to add example in PH classifieds!
I can't help but notice though, that a little bit more gets me into the first of the E60 M5s with approx 50k miles on. How durable are the mechanics on these cars?
http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2190994.htm
Edited to add example in PH classifieds!
Edited by slippery on Sunday 19th December 00:37
It is an awful lot of car for the money but you need to remember that just because a car has fallen to £20k to buy it will still have the running costs of a £60-£70k car and as time goes on things will start needing replacement.
If you are going to be doing big miles I think the VXR will be a cheaper way to do it.
On the other hand, what an awesome way to do 25k miles a year!
Personally (if I had the cash to run/buy one of these cars) I wouldn't dream of getting one without a very comprehensive warranty.
If you are going to be doing big miles I think the VXR will be a cheaper way to do it.
On the other hand, what an awesome way to do 25k miles a year!
Personally (if I had the cash to run/buy one of these cars) I wouldn't dream of getting one without a very comprehensive warranty.
Well I bought a nice FBMSH, 2 owner, 4 year old E46 M3 in Oct 2008 for 19995, and until I sold it in Aug 2009 it continually cost me money, everymonth it needed something, as a result it put me off M Cars for a while
The E60 M5 I reckon if it's a good one will be fine, (although I thought my M3 was a good one) and it raped me financially
Looking back I could afford it, just and if you are in a similar scenario I would choose something else, just incase it bites you
The E60 M5 I reckon if it's a good one will be fine, (although I thought my M3 was a good one) and it raped me financially
Looking back I could afford it, just and if you are in a similar scenario I would choose something else, just incase it bites you
I can't comment on the M5 as such but expect the E60 will cost significantly more to run. I ran a 545 for some time and parts prices are high, also they are a complex beast compared to the VXR8. I also expect the VXR8 will be a more raw driving experience, if you want the occasion of a V8 then this is the car to go for...although I can understand how the V10 appeals and it's sure to be a better GT due to interior and ride comfort.
I would back the M5 - although that mileage and price dont match...IMO, check for wear and the service history is up to scratch...2005
Compared to the VXR - VXR's are hard to sell, and loose money quicker than the M5 so relatively speaking I would say my moneys on the M5....VXR's are also not as well built as the M5.
I viewed a VXR back in june - aiming to change the M5 e39 to one. But it was something that the sales guy said to put me off. It was on at a good price but no-one had bought it...right colour etc....
2001 M5's fetch between £7-10k at the moment - so a 2005 in two years say is worth at least 12-16K
Compared to the VXR - VXR's are hard to sell, and loose money quicker than the M5 so relatively speaking I would say my moneys on the M5....VXR's are also not as well built as the M5.
I viewed a VXR back in june - aiming to change the M5 e39 to one. But it was something that the sales guy said to put me off. It was on at a good price but no-one had bought it...right colour etc....
2001 M5's fetch between £7-10k at the moment - so a 2005 in two years say is worth at least 12-16K
on martins point, our other car is a 2003 one owner - now two, M3 E46 convert with 61k FBMSH, etc bought from a dealer in Dec 2008 for £12k (well car prices had crashed). All we have had go wrong on that was a suspension arm replaced under warranty.....a bit of luck of the draw.....I can see martins point but I would back M cars all the way, now on our 7th BMW...
t
t
I know they can prodoce big bills, particularly from the gearbox apparently, but it would be great to have some real world stories from people that have run them from 50 to 100k miles. Would there be several people saying it was nothing more than servicing and consumables, or would everybody say that each time their car went in for a service, it came out with a bill for several thousand and yet still there were unscheduled failures. If the general vibe is that they are strong and generally reliable then fine. My only direct experience of M5 previously was an E34 many years ago. The 3.8 engine was disturbingly fragile and needed replacing twice.
I ran my e39 for 2 years over 30k miles, no major issues - just brakes, and brakes, and some tyres - lots of fuel.....serviced non bmw service makes a difference, dont take any of their rubbish....they just try to load bills....always serviced at indis...
m5 = miss it dearly...
E60 is my next choice or the Rs4, but not in a position to buy at the moment...
m5 = miss it dearly...
E60 is my next choice or the Rs4, but not in a position to buy at the moment...
ortontom said:
on martins point, our other car is a 2003 one owner - now two, M3 E46 convert with 61k FBMSH, etc bought from a dealer in Dec 2008 for £12k (well car prices had crashed). All we have had go wrong on that was a suspension arm replaced under warranty.....a bit of luck of the draw.....I can see martins point but I would back M cars all the way, now on our 7th BMW...
t
Ironically I've had 7 BMWs since the E46 M3 (it was my first BMW) and they have all been faultless, give or take some small consumables at MOT time. As stated further up, the E60 is a very complex car, a friend of mines father has had a 545i for nearly 4 years now and reckons it's had in the region of £14k spent on it in warranty repairs in that time. Thats food for thought. At the same time though a VxR8 could quite easily cost a significant amount in running costs. t
I'm a firm believer after my M3 experience, if you can't afford a big unexpected repair then look elsewhere.
Affording the odd unexpected repair is not really a problem, more of an irritation. It's just I don't want it to be the kind of scenario where it's one thing after another and I start hating the car. I have had many non M BMWs, 540i etc and the thing that has always stood out to me is how tight and rattle free they were, even by the time they had massive miles under their belts. This V10 thing is totally unchartered territory for me though. I've heard they sound nasty at low revs but glorious when stretched?
Sounds to me like you know the M5 makes less sense than the Vauxhall, but are hoping for a miracle that it isn't the case. How much would a warranty on a car of that age/mileage be? Got to be 4 figures per year and even then everything won't be covered. And when you come to sell it can you imagine the look on some people's faces when you tell them it has now covered 100,000 miles? I know anything will sell if the price is low enough, but if your engine goes and it isn't covered by warranty I would say there is a fair chance the rest car will be worth more to a breaker than it would cost to install a new engine. With that in mind I wouldn't touch it as a trade in if I was a dealer unless I already had a guaranteed buyer lined up.
One last thing. I know you aren't bothered about fuel economy and I am not going to suggest you look for a different car because I think you have done your sums, but check how much more the V10 will use. Single digit mpg is common while the V8 will probably warble along giving significantly more than that. Going from poor to horrendous mpg plus the warranty and uncertainty might just prove a step too far for you.
One last thing. I know you aren't bothered about fuel economy and I am not going to suggest you look for a different car because I think you have done your sums, but check how much more the V10 will use. Single digit mpg is common while the V8 will probably warble along giving significantly more than that. Going from poor to horrendous mpg plus the warranty and uncertainty might just prove a step too far for you.
I've had an e46 M3 and also more recently an M6. These cars are for the most part very reliable. Service and maintenance costs are high(ish) compared to other BMWs but not really that bad in the context of 500bhp performance (and probably much better if you find a good specialist rather than a main dealer). The thing to think about is the small chance of a big bill if you're buying the car out of warranty. My M6 needed a new engine at 29k miles (all done under warranty but I'm told it would have been £15k if I'd had to pay for it). This is the exception rather than the norm but can happen.
On another note the engine in the M5 is great. I kept my M6 for 2 years and loved it.
On another note the engine in the M5 is great. I kept my M6 for 2 years and loved it.
Slippery, I have the same issue with the M5 as you. They have fallen from 'dream' money into every day money and if you have £25k to spend you have a lot of choice.
However, everyone says "oh, you must have a warranty if you get an M5" and yet nobody seems to back this up with some real life figures or experience. I want to hear from all M5 owners, not just the ones that have been stung by a big bill who can now retrospectively justify £1000-1500 a year for an aftermarket warranty. I want to hear from the people that have ran an M5 out of its 3 year warranty and had no problems at all. I really want to hear from people that paid that kind of money each year, but felt they p*ssed it down the drain as they looked after their car and it gave them little/no grief. The more experiences we can hear about, the more informed our decisions can be.
My mate has an e46 M3 and I'm pretty sure he'd have made a considerable 'loss' had he paid for an aftermarket warranty in the time he's had the car. That said, it hasn't been faultless; the alternator went and the bill was pretty eye watering for such a simple repair.
I could handle the odd £300, £500 bill here and there for repairs. What I couldn't cope with is spending £25k on a car and then being hit for a bill of £7k+ because of some gearbox or engine trouble.
However, everyone says "oh, you must have a warranty if you get an M5" and yet nobody seems to back this up with some real life figures or experience. I want to hear from all M5 owners, not just the ones that have been stung by a big bill who can now retrospectively justify £1000-1500 a year for an aftermarket warranty. I want to hear from the people that have ran an M5 out of its 3 year warranty and had no problems at all. I really want to hear from people that paid that kind of money each year, but felt they p*ssed it down the drain as they looked after their car and it gave them little/no grief. The more experiences we can hear about, the more informed our decisions can be.
My mate has an e46 M3 and I'm pretty sure he'd have made a considerable 'loss' had he paid for an aftermarket warranty in the time he's had the car. That said, it hasn't been faultless; the alternator went and the bill was pretty eye watering for such a simple repair.
I could handle the odd £300, £500 bill here and there for repairs. What I couldn't cope with is spending £25k on a car and then being hit for a bill of £7k+ because of some gearbox or engine trouble.
Mmmmm, the 15k bill is exactly the kind of scenario I am concerned about. Sonic, I think you've got me worked out, I knew the VXR8 was the more sensible (!) option, I just wanted to check I wasn't missing a trick. Fuel and sub 5k bills are not a problem, 5 figure bills certainly are. I know the 550i is the compromise, but I think I want something that's more of an event to drive. 650is are below £20k now too, but I think I would feel the same about the drive as the 550i.
I think there are some good points in this thread on why to avoid an M5.
From my research you would be hard pushed to average the 20mpg that I achieved in my VXR8, in an M5. Plus the £960 yearly warranty for an M5, which you could be spending on mods for the Holden.
Invest in some proper suspension on the VXR8, and I don't think you can envisage any reliability faults as you can with an M5. Nor can I see it being any less competent or entertaining.
From my research you would be hard pushed to average the 20mpg that I achieved in my VXR8, in an M5. Plus the £960 yearly warranty for an M5, which you could be spending on mods for the Holden.
Invest in some proper suspension on the VXR8, and I don't think you can envisage any reliability faults as you can with an M5. Nor can I see it being any less competent or entertaining.
Edited by GaryST220 on Sunday 19th December 10:53
A point not to be overlooked is that the VXR8 may also be more rewarding to drive? I have heard the M5 is an absolute techno marvel but can leave you a little cold? It would be great to hear from someone who has experience of both. There is certainly a huge amount of affection for the big Aussie amongst the owners on this forum. I did have a 5.7 Holden Commodore about 6 years ago which was also great fun, although it's obviously a more cheap and cheerful place to sit. The engine is certainly the heart of those cars.
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