Bean to Cup coffee machines

[Russ T Bolt]

I'm thinking of buying a bean to cup coffee machine. I can get Siemens machines at preferential prices but can't decide whether to go with them or a Gaggia.

Also whether to go for a base machine or nearer the top end.

Anybody on PH got one, had one ?
Any experience you can offer, are they worth the money ?

I currently use a Senseo, but finding it harder and harder to get the pods.

[Bonefish Blues]

Russ T Bolt said:

I'm thinking of buying a bean to cup coffee machine. I can get Siemens machines at preferential prices but can't decide whether to go with them or a Gaggia.

Also whether to go for a base machine or nearer the top end.

Anybody on PH got one, had one ?
Any experience you can offer, are they worth the money ?

I currently use a Senseo, but finding it harder and harder to get the pods.

Yep, got a former series Siemens Surpresso S20 and it's absolutely excellent, and has been for 5 years. Made in Switzerland, interestingly - I suspect by Jura.

[nomisesor]

About 3 weeks ago bought a DeLonghi Magnifica from Argos - so far very good. Researching them, it seems that all can be problematic if not cared for, specifically decalfification. Happy surprise to see that it was discounted.

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/0...

[E31Shrew]

Have had a Gaggia Synchrony in the office for the past 10 years. Been back for a new pump once and a service. Have a Synchrony Titanium at home [ 3 years old] and to date fine.

[Bonefish Blues]

nomisesor said:

About 3 weeks ago bought a DeLonghi Magnifica from Argos - so far very good. Researching them, it seems that all can be problematic if not cared for, specifically decalfification. Happy surprise to see that it was discounted.

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/0...

Absolutely right re de-calc - we went a couple of weeks over during a refurb of our house and it stopped and sulked until I re-set it.

[missdiane]

Asda have a better range of senseo pods than other supermarkets

However the taste of a senseo machine, I'd say get a new one anyway
Have a read of the Nespresso thread if you haven't already
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

Edited by missdiane on Sunday 19th December 15:10

[Russ T Bolt]

Thanks for all the replys, looks like it is worth getting one, just need to decide how much to spend. Struggling to justify £1000 (Siemens TK7600 series) but just concerned that if I buy a £400 machine I will regret it.

[Russ T Bolt]

missdiane said:

Asda have a better range of senseo pods than other supermarkets

However the taste of a senseo machine, I'd say get a new one anyway
Have a read of the Nespresso thread if you haven't already
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

Edited by missdiane on Sunday 19th December 15:10

Never been a big fan of the Nespresso machine I'm afraid. A couple of friends have them. Unless things have changed very recently you can only buy Nespresso capsules from them directly or Ebay.
Looked at them a few years ago, also considered getting a bean to cup at the time, but so confused with the myriad options I gave up. But this time I will definitely get one.

I will take a trek down to Asda though to tide me over.

[Russ T Bolt]

nomisesor said:

About 3 weeks ago bought a DeLonghi Magnifica from Argos - so far very good. Researching them, it seems that all can be problematic if not cared for, specifically decalfification. Happy surprise to see that it was discounted.

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/0...

Hmm, that might be interesting, there was a review on that link complaining about having to empty it between cups, is that correct ?

I have a friend with a Gaggia machine and it creates compressed disks of coffee as the waste, which is very easy to deal with.

[Bonefish Blues]

Russ T Bolt said:

Thanks for all the replys, looks like it is worth getting one, just need to decide how much to spend. Struggling to justify £1000 (Siemens TK7600 series) but just concerned that if I buy a £400 machine I will regret it.

If I could get this one at a good discount I think it's a blinding machine, not sure what spending any more would get you: http://www.gocoffee.co.uk/coffee-machines/siemens-...

[bogie]

delonghi E6600 for 3 years hear ...around 12000 cups made so far

dont buy a capsule machine other than for occasional 1 cup a day drinker

the business model is like ink cartridges ; they give away the machine cheap and make the money on the capsules

I worked out it would cost me £1200 a year in capsules, compared to around £300 in beans if I had a capsule machine

anyway got the delonghi, b grade stock (damaged box) and saved about £200 off RRP at the time

it has gone wrong twice, each time, ring call centre, picked up within 48 hours, returned fully serviced and like new within another 48-72 hours, so wasnt too much of an issue

Id defo buy another, but dont need to for now

[garreth64]

I'm not sure about bean to cup machines as I've never had one, but if you're spending that kind of money, I'd personally look at getting a decent manual espresso machine, a good quality grinder and most importantly make sure you buy decent coffee.

I've got a Gaggia Baby Class and Iberital MC2 Grinder and they produce great results. The Rancillo Rocky, and Mazzer Mini are also said to be good grinders.

I buy all my coffee from here: http://www.hasbean.co.uk - not affiliated in any way but Steve is a real enthusiast and provides great service. Lots of useful info on his website as well.

[nomisesor]

Russ T Bolt said:

nomisesor said:

About 3 weeks ago bought a DeLonghi Magnifica from Argos - so far very good. Researching them, it seems that all can be problematic if not cared for, specifically decalfification. Happy surprise to see that it was discounted.

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/0...

Hmm, that might be interesting, there was a review on that link complaining about having to empty it between cups, is that correct ?

I have a friend with a Gaggia machine and it creates compressed disks of coffee as the waste, which is very easy to deal with.

The one above does a wash-through at start-up (which is quite useful as you can use the warm wash-through water to pre-warm your cup) and also when it shuts down (time to shut-down is adjustable, default at 2 hours), but it has never asked me to empty its droppings. These are, as you say for the rival manufacturer, compressed discs of grounds. It certainly doesn't ask you to empty between cups. When you refill the water tank it's easy to pull out the drip tray and the coffee disc waste holder at the same time, and with the smallish size of cups that we use, refilling the water tank is frequent enough that, should you do them as well, the coffee or drip tray never have that much in them - I've just had a look at it and done some rough measurements - tank is well over a litre, so you can probably do > 20 smaller cups before refilling it, emptying droppings or waste tray.

All machines seem to be much more of a hassle if you want frothed milk - just think of the trouble you have cleaning a pan in which you've heated milk to boiling. We like espressos with no milk, but some of my children like milky coffee so they heat the milk in the microwave, put the cup of hot milk under the height-adjustable dispenser spouts and get the coffee made directly into the cup - no froth (except the espreso crema) but no cleaning the milk frother either.

Interestingly, looking at Which? or Amazon or various websites, people seem to have very different experiences even with machines from the same manufacturer - an extreme version of the "Friday" car syndrome. Whether this is due to abuse, water hardness, frequency of use or what, I don't know, but there appears to be much more inter-machine / inter-user variability in satisfaction than with most products. Also people put up reviews of machines which are not exactly the same (and which may, internally be very different - compare the most eco 3 series with some special carbon-everywhere V8 M3).

PS - anyone know what descaler, other than the expensive branded one is suitable? The instructions say "under no circumstances should you use sulphamic or acetic based [so vinegar is out!] descalers. Their use invalidates the guarantee..." The descaler is branded and said to be "natural" - perhaps citric acid - I haven't opened the sealed packet of liquid to find out.

Edited by nomisesor on Monday 20th December 08:02

[Russ T Bolt]

Bonefish Blues said:

Russ T Bolt said:

Thanks for all the replys, looks like it is worth getting one, just need to decide how much to spend. Struggling to justify £1000 (Siemens TK7600 series) but just concerned that if I buy a £400 machine I will regret it.

If I could get this one at a good discount I think it's a blinding machine, not sure what spending any more would get you: http://www.gocoffee.co.uk/coffee-machines/siemens-...

Interestingly (or maybe not) that is the only model I can't get cheaper than web prices. So it's either the TK58001 at a £50 saving or the 7000 series at circa £250 saving, but these are still very expensive.

[Russ T Bolt]

nomisesor said:

Russ T Bolt said:

nomisesor said:

About 3 weeks ago bought a DeLonghi Magnifica from Argos - so far very good. Researching them, it seems that all can be problematic if not cared for, specifically decalfification. Happy surprise to see that it was discounted.

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/0...

Hmm, that might be interesting, there was a review on that link complaining about having to empty it between cups, is that correct ?

I have a friend with a Gaggia machine and it creates compressed disks of coffee as the waste, which is very easy to deal with.

The one above does a wash-through at start-up (which is quite useful as you can use the warm wash-through water to pre-warm your cup) and also when it shuts down (time to shut-down is adjustable, default at 2 hours), but it has never asked me to empty its droppings. These are, as you say for the rival manufacturer, compressed discs of grounds. It certainly doesn't ask you to empty between cups. When you refill the water tank it's easy to pull out the drip tray and the coffee disc waste holder at the same time, and with the smallish size of cups that we use, refilling the water tank is frequent enough that, should you do them as well, the coffee or drip tray never have that much in them - I've just had a look at it and done some rough measurements - tank is well over a litre, so you can probably do > 20 smaller cups before refilling it, emptying droppings or waste tray.

All machines seem to be much more of a hassle if you want frothed milk - just think of the trouble you have cleaning a pan in which you've heated milk to boiling. We like espressos with no milk, but some of my children like milky coffee so they heat the milk in the microwave, put the cup of hot milk under the height-adjustable dispenser spouts and get the coffee made directly into the cup - no froth (except the espreso crema) but no cleaning the milk frother either.

Interestingly, looking at Which? or Amazon or various websites, people seem to have very different experiences even with machines from the same manufacturer - an extreme version of the "Friday" car syndrome. Whether this is due to abuse, water hardness, frequency of use or what, I don't know, but there appears to be much more inter-machine / inter-user variability in satisfaction than with most products. Also people put up reviews of machines which are not exactly the same (and which may, internally be very different - compare the most eco 3 series with some special carbon-everywhere V8 M3).

PS - anyone know what descaler, other than the expensive branded one is suitable? The instructions say "under no circumstances should you use sulphamic or acetic based [so vinegar is out!] descalers. Their use invalidates the guarantee..." The descaler is branded and said to be "natural" - perhaps citric acid - I haven't opened the sealed packet of liquid to find out.

Edited by nomisesor on Monday 20th December 08:02

I know what you mean, I have an old DeLonghi filter coffee machine that makes Cappuchinos, it has a built in milk holder that it heats and froths, or at least it used to. It was always a pain to keep clean and in the end just stopped altogether, but at least the coffee part still works.

[Bonefish Blues]

Russ T Bolt said:

Bonefish Blues said:

Russ T Bolt said:

Thanks for all the replys, looks like it is worth getting one, just need to decide how much to spend. Struggling to justify £1000 (Siemens TK7600 series) but just concerned that if I buy a £400 machine I will regret it.

If I could get this one at a good discount I think it's a blinding machine, not sure what spending any more would get you: http://www.gocoffee.co.uk/coffee-machines/siemens-...

Interestingly (or maybe not) that is the only model I can't get cheaper than web prices. So it's either the TK58001 at a £50 saving or the 7000 series at circa £250 saving, but these are still very expensive.

Maybe that's because it's the last of the "built like a brick outhouse" former series?

[Zod]

I had a Saeco for seven years that worked well until the water reservoir began to leak. I replaced it with a Gaggia Platinum Swing-Up that was an absolute disaster. In the 18 months or so that I have owned it, it has gone badly wrong twice. The first time, almost all of its internals needed to be replaced, as it had simply lunched itself. Now, when it is supposed to be making coffee, it spurts water up through the milk island. I am trying to get my money back or at least part of it.

Now, I have given up on bean-to-cup machines and bought this:



and this:



With the bean-to-cup machines, the coffee was acceptable. With my new kit and an hour's training from the place I bought it, my coffee is now up to top coffee shop quality (i.e. miles better than any of the high street chains).

Edited by Zod on Monday 20th December 10:58

[Russ T Bolt]

Thanks to everybody for their advice. I have decided to get the DeLonghi from Argos to see how I get on with that before committing huge amounts of money. Special thanks to Nomisesor for the suggestion.
It could be that I end up looking at pure Espresso machines as have been suggested by a couple of people, but at least with the DeLonghi I won't have blown all my budget in one go.

Thanks All.

[hairyben]

As far as the bean-to-cup/ espresso argument goes BTC is fine if you're happy to splash £k's for push-button convenience, it won't make a better coffee. I use the cusineart espresso machine (~£160) and haven't had better coffee from the various BTC's of clients/family from all the names like saeco, jura etc, costing from just into to well into 4 figure territory.

Mine also gives more scope, ie normally I have the strongest coffee known to man, but if you fancy a late night irish just bung some decaf in. not so easy with a BTC;)

[furtive]

Slight tangent, but anyone had any experience with Tassimo machines?