Brakes which break
Discussion
Mucho work going on over the winter on the track car and one element will be a complete overhaul of the brakes.
There seems to be a very clear heirarchy within brake discs:
Flat (OEM style)
Grooved
Drilled and Grooved
and this is reflected in the price.
But, I have also seen many comments regarding the latter type of discs cracking - fault lines from the drill holes. Given that these discs are sold for performance use, is this a real issue and what is the extent of the braking performance gain of having drills as well as grooves?
There seems to be a very clear heirarchy within brake discs:
Flat (OEM style)
Grooved
Drilled and Grooved
and this is reflected in the price.
But, I have also seen many comments regarding the latter type of discs cracking - fault lines from the drill holes. Given that these discs are sold for performance use, is this a real issue and what is the extent of the braking performance gain of having drills as well as grooves?
I`ve been told the same thing about drilled disc, don`t forget when used in motorsports they`ll be replaced after each race.
So depends on the cost difference between plain and grooved, IMHO the choice of pads, Brake Fluid and condition of calipers is more important. I`ve got grooved disc on at the mo but when i come to replace them i`ll just go for the plain
So depends on the cost difference between plain and grooved, IMHO the choice of pads, Brake Fluid and condition of calipers is more important. I`ve got grooved disc on at the mo but when i come to replace them i`ll just go for the plain
davepoth said:
You may be better off going for bigger brakes with plain discs if it's a trackday car.
I thought I "had" to get drilled and grooved discs when I used to track my 205. When they wore out I couldn't find any replacements quickly, so got an OEM set and stuck them on. Guess what? I couldn't tell the performance difference, they didn't fade or catch fire.
In fact, the chap who looks after my car builds a lot of race Peugeots, and reckons the originals are better as you've got more friction surface to bite into compared to grooved ones.
I find grooved discs are best. Not too many grooves as to take away alot of material, but enough to wipe the pad and get rid of some dust. 8 off 2.5mm wide ball nosed groove at 1mm deep and this is also a disc wear indicator.
Drilled discs are nearly always a problem due to stress/heat cracks form the hole especially on cheap discs. This happens onn a standard R32 GTR, but they are only 296mm on a 300hp/1400KG car so a bit undersize and therefore get too hot when pushed hard.
So good quality plain or grooved discs, good pads and fluid should be ok on most cars with decent sized brakes as standard.
Also lose as much weight out of the car.
Eddy
Drilled discs are nearly always a problem due to stress/heat cracks form the hole especially on cheap discs. This happens onn a standard R32 GTR, but they are only 296mm on a 300hp/1400KG car so a bit undersize and therefore get too hot when pushed hard.
So good quality plain or grooved discs, good pads and fluid should be ok on most cars with decent sized brakes as standard.
Also lose as much weight out of the car.
Eddy
Edited by fast eddys on Wednesday 22 December 09:59
I think you're right Ed (and previous contributors). I'm just going to go for some Black Diamond grooved discs.
As for the weight issue, I've been pondering this for ages. Part of me is quite happy to tear the inside of the car out, but it really does commit the car to track use for the rest of its life and I think it'd be nice to keep it not only road legal but somewhat road useable. (I don't use it on the road now, apart from travelling to a track and back, but who knows what someone may wish to do with it in the future).
I think it'd probably be better if I lost weight rather than the car, anyway
As for the weight issue, I've been pondering this for ages. Part of me is quite happy to tear the inside of the car out, but it really does commit the car to track use for the rest of its life and I think it'd be nice to keep it not only road legal but somewhat road useable. (I don't use it on the road now, apart from travelling to a track and back, but who knows what someone may wish to do with it in the future).
I think it'd probably be better if I lost weight rather than the car, anyway
I have seen Black Diamond G & D disks crack at a track day on an FD, but I have used identical disks on my FD for about 6-7 track days with out any probs. I think it will depend on which pads you use. I found Hawk pads good if not a bit/very dusty!. No one mentioned dimpled disks yet?
P.
P.
Sour Kraut said:
I think you're right Ed (and previous contributors). I'm just going to go for some Black Diamond grooved discs.
As for the weight issue, I've been pondering this for ages. Part of me is quite happy to tear the inside of the car out, but it really does commit the car to track use for the rest of its life and I think it'd be nice to keep it not only road legal but somewhat road useable. (I don't use it on the road now, apart from travelling to a track and back, but who knows what someone may wish to do with it in the future).
I think it'd probably be better if I lost weight rather than the car, anyway
There are some weight saving things you can do for each trackday and still keep it nice for "normal".As for the weight issue, I've been pondering this for ages. Part of me is quite happy to tear the inside of the car out, but it really does commit the car to track use for the rest of its life and I think it'd be nice to keep it not only road legal but somewhat road useable. (I don't use it on the road now, apart from travelling to a track and back, but who knows what someone may wish to do with it in the future).
I think it'd probably be better if I lost weight rather than the car, anyway
In my 205 I used to remove the rear seats, parcel shelf, spare wheel, boot liner, all floor mats, tool kit and jack. If I wasn't getting any instruction or going with a mate then the passenger seat would come out too. Total prep time about an hour to remove, maybe 1.5 to get everything back in.
I think that discs are about the least important thing when it comes to brakes. FAR more important are:
Pads
Fluid
LindsLines (braided)
Cooling
Clearly a larger diameter disc and/or a bigger caliper will be the best bet, but the above 4 elements are more important than whether the discs are plain/grooved/drilled and grooved. TBH I think that most drilling/grooving is to do with aesthetics more than performance. I'd recommend using boggo cheap plain discs but spend good money on pads/fluid/lines/cooling. The plain discs will be fine and FAR cheaper to replace. (I use £99/pair discs and even if they need changing 3x as often as the ones which are £300/disc that's still half the cost for the same performance.)
Seriously, pads are where it's at. (And don't just buy from brands out of the back of max power - there's better options IMO than black diamond and EBC. Have a look at the Ferodo DS2500 or DS3000 and also Carbotech XP8 or XP10 for pads. (Crap website but fckuing awesome pads.)
Pads
Fluid
Cooling
Clearly a larger diameter disc and/or a bigger caliper will be the best bet, but the above 4 elements are more important than whether the discs are plain/grooved/drilled and grooved. TBH I think that most drilling/grooving is to do with aesthetics more than performance. I'd recommend using boggo cheap plain discs but spend good money on pads/fluid/lines/cooling. The plain discs will be fine and FAR cheaper to replace. (I use £99/pair discs and even if they need changing 3x as often as the ones which are £300/disc that's still half the cost for the same performance.)
Seriously, pads are where it's at. (And don't just buy from brands out of the back of max power - there's better options IMO than black diamond and EBC. Have a look at the Ferodo DS2500 or DS3000 and also Carbotech XP8 or XP10 for pads. (Crap website but fckuing awesome pads.)
Edited by mrmr96 on Wednesday 22 December 18:57
Linds?
I have already fitted braided hoses and uprated fluid. I was planning on moving to Yellowstuff pads with the Black Diamond discs, simultaneously increasing the size of the front discs (to E46 328i size).
With regard to the weight, the boot is fully stripped. I took the seat base out of the rear and it was so light I just put it back
I have already fitted braided hoses and uprated fluid. I was planning on moving to Yellowstuff pads with the Black Diamond discs, simultaneously increasing the size of the front discs (to E46 328i size).
With regard to the weight, the boot is fully stripped. I took the seat base out of the rear and it was so light I just put it back
Sour Kraut said:
Linds?
I have already fitted braided hoses and uprated fluid. I was planning on moving to Yellowstuff pads with the Black Diamond discs, simultaneously increasing the size of the front discs (to E46 328i size).
Whoops, typo: should have said "lines" i.e. braided hoses which you already have. When you fit the bigger discs I presume you've got spacers you'll use to move the calipers out?I have already fitted braided hoses and uprated fluid. I was planning on moving to Yellowstuff pads with the Black Diamond discs, simultaneously increasing the size of the front discs (to E46 328i size).
Up to you what brand discs and pads you want to use, but I wouldn't use those. Carbotech or Ferodo for me.
mrmr96 said:
Sour Kraut said:
Linds?
I have already fitted braided hoses and uprated fluid. I was planning on moving to Yellowstuff pads with the Black Diamond discs, simultaneously increasing the size of the front discs (to E46 328i size).
Whoops, typo: should have said "lines" i.e. braided hoses which you already have. When you fit the bigger discs I presume you've got spacers you'll use to move the calipers out?I have already fitted braided hoses and uprated fluid. I was planning on moving to Yellowstuff pads with the Black Diamond discs, simultaneously increasing the size of the front discs (to E46 328i size).
Up to you what brand discs and pads you want to use, but I wouldn't use those. Carbotech or Ferodo for me.
You're the first person I've ever heard to not rate Yellowstuff at that price point. They're <£60 an axle.
Sour Kraut said:
mrmr96 said:
Sour Kraut said:
Linds?
I have already fitted braided hoses and uprated fluid. I was planning on moving to Yellowstuff pads with the Black Diamond discs, simultaneously increasing the size of the front discs (to E46 328i size).
Whoops, typo: should have said "lines" i.e. braided hoses which you already have. When you fit the bigger discs I presume you've got spacers you'll use to move the calipers out?I have already fitted braided hoses and uprated fluid. I was planning on moving to Yellowstuff pads with the Black Diamond discs, simultaneously increasing the size of the front discs (to E46 328i size).
Up to you what brand discs and pads you want to use, but I wouldn't use those. Carbotech or Ferodo for me.
You're the first person I've ever heard to not rate Yellowstuff at that price point. They're <£60 an axle.
EBC = Wheetabix, compared to the Ferodo pads and as said above goods pads and fluid.
Fair enough they cost more but with pads I believe you do get what you pay for, and you can always change them back after a track and put your stock pads in. Good excuse to clean all the dust out and inspect anyways. But you’ll probably need to bed them in again each time but do label and pair them up so they go back in the same place/side !
Fair enough they cost more but with pads I believe you do get what you pay for, and you can always change them back after a track and put your stock pads in. Good excuse to clean all the dust out and inspect anyways. But you’ll probably need to bed them in again each time but do label and pair them up so they go back in the same place/side !
+1 more recommendation for carbotec from me, absolutely awesome pads 
I've been mightily impressed with how much better the pads alone have been on some volvo's I've tinkered with plus ferodo DS2500's are very good pads, currently using them in my car & can't wait to get on track again so I can try them out properly
I've been mightily impressed with how much better the pads alone have been on some volvo's I've tinkered with plus ferodo DS2500's are very good pads, currently using them in my car & can't wait to get on track again so I can try them out properly
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